Can Christians lose their salvation?

LoveofTruth

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So do you agree that our good news about salvation cannot be exactly the same as the good news that was presented in the OT? Gospel is the term for good news.

Both are by grace thru faith, but the requirements to show faith varies depending on what God revealed then and now.
Galatians 3:8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.”

And

Romans 3:21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:”
 
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Guojing

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Galatians 3:8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.”

And

Romans 3:21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:”

Amen, your second passage used the phrase but now. “But Now” we show our faith from ceasing from our works.

In ages past, Cain could not, he was not living in the “but now” as we are. God told him to do right and offer the correct sacrifice.

He did not tell him to believe in Jesus and cease from works. Unlike Abel, he refused to do the work commanded by God

If you refuse to see the difference, then we can agree to disagree here.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Amen, your second passage used the phrase but now. “But Now” we show our faith from ceasing from our works.

In ages past, Cain could not, he was not living in the “but now” as we are. God told him to do right and offer the correct sacrifice.

He did not tell him to believe in Jesus and cease from works. Unlike Abel, he refused to do the work commanded by God

If you refuse to see the difference, then we can agree to disagree here.
Cain could only “do right” if he, like Abel has faith in God’s righteousness. Then if he had faith Christ would dwell in His heart and give life then God would be working in him to will and to do as He has in all believers since The beginning. Then out of his heart would come the issues of life. Not works for salvation but as fruit from a living tree.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Well since we won't be finally saved until we die, we can walk away anytime.
Although we are saved now as we abide in Christ and if we abide not we are lost and not in Christ as scripture seems to clearly say

Notice the words “are saved” and then the word “if”

1 Corinthians 15:1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.”

John 15:6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
 
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Guojing

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Cain could only “do right” if he, like Abel has faith in God’s righteousness. Then if he had faith Christ would dwell in His heart and give life then God would be working in him to will and to do as He has in all believers since The beginning. Then out of his heart would come the issues of life. Not works for salvation but as fruit from a living tree.

You are trying to read into the Bible here. Did God ask Cain to put his faith in God's righteousness? Did God tell Cain about Jesus Christ his son that would dwell in his heart?

What did Genesis 4:6-7 literally says? What says the scripture?
 
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LoveofTruth

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You are trying to read into the Bible here. Did God ask Cain to put his faith in God's righteousness? Did God tell Cain about Jesus Christ his son that would dwell in his heart?

What did Genesis 4:6-7 literally says? What says the scripture?
A few hints in this section

“ 1 John 3:9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.10. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.11. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.12. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.13. Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.14. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.15. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

And this

“ Hebrews 11:4. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.”

And

Ephesians 3:17. That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,”
 
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Guojing

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A few hints in this section

“ 1 John 3:9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.10. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.11. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.12. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.13. Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.14. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.15. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

And this

“ Hebrews 11:4. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.”

And

Ephesians 3:17. That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,”

Is there a special reason why you would rather not quote genesis 4:7 directly, as requested to?
 
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Guojing

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Yes, notice God didn't tell Cain to "believe well" or "have the correct faith".

Instead God told him to "do well", meaning offer the same offering as Abel, and he would have been accepted.

Some translation even stated that God provided the sin offering Cain needed to "do well and get accepted", waiting outside the door for Cain to take and sacrifice it.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Yes, notice God didn't tell Cain to "believe well" or "have the correct faith".

Instead God told him to "do well", meaning offer the same offering as Abel, and he would have been accepted.

Some translation even stated that God provided the sin offering Cain needed to "do well and get accepted", waiting outside the door for Cain to take and sacrifice it.

And?
 
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bbbbbbb

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I was replying to the other guy in this thread when you came in.

If you never read the ongoing discussion, you may do so now

It seemed to me that your discussion with that other chap had pretty much ceased, unless he chooses to come in again. I am always interested in the castles of theology that get built upon a Bible verse or two taken out of context.
 
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Guojing

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It seemed to me that your discussion with that other chap had pretty much ceased, unless he chooses to come in again. I am always interested in the castles of theology that get built upon a Bible verse or two taken out of context.

So I suppose you also believe that it was salvation by believing alone, apart from works, for the OT saints as well?

Hebrews 11 has more than 1 verse or two about how the OT saints were saved. I am just exploring the specific case of Abel and Cain here.
 
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bbbbbbb

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So I suppose you also believe that it was salvation by believing alone, apart from works, for the OT saints as well?

Hebrews 11 has more than 1 verse or two about how the OT saints were saved. I am just exploring the specific case of Abel and Cain here.

Ultimately, does it really matter to anyone, except perhaps myself, what I think about this issue? Does my belief in any way, shape, or form change or alter the salvation of anyone prior to the coming of Jesus Christ?

All I did was answer your request to post one verse from Genesis and now I am being dragged into an ultimately useless argument of which I do not have a dog in the race.
 
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Guojing

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Ultimately, does it really matter to anyone, except perhaps myself, what I think about this issue? Does my belief in any way, shape, or form change or alter the salvation of anyone prior to the coming of Jesus Christ?

All I did was answer your request to post one verse from Genesis and now I am being dragged into an ultimately useless argument of which I do not have a dog in the race.

Oh pity you thought you were being dragged in. For me I see the purpose of such discussions is not to change other people’s minds because people rarely do to.

Rather it’s to understand why you think a certain way regarding doctrine and why others come to different interpretations.

This allows lifelong learning which to me, helps keep me young
 
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bbbbbbb

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Oh pity you thought you were being dragged in. For me I see the purpose of such discussions is not to change other people’s minds because people rarely do to.

Rather it’s to understand why you think a certain way regarding doctrine and why others come to different interpretations.

This allows lifelong learning which to me, helps keep me young

Bingo!
 
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LoveofTruth

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Is there a special reason why you would rather not quote genesis 4:7 directly, as requested to?
I am showing that it wasn’t the works that saved him but that in Faith he evidenced that he had Christ in him through faith and that he was working the works of faith or the works of God through faith like fruit from a tree that is planted in fertile ground.

As scripture shows

Hebrews 11:4. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.”

Notice that “by faith Abel offered” so if Cain came the right way he would have to have faith, then he could offer right and the evidence of that faith could be seen “show me your faith” . If Christ dwells in the heart by faith then he works in us and this shows forth.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Yes, notice God didn't tell Cain to "believe well" or "have the correct faith".

Instead God told him to "do well", meaning offer the same offering as Abel, and he would have been accepted.

Some translation even stated that God provided the sin offering Cain needed to "do well and get accepted", waiting outside the door for Cain to take and sacrifice it.
If a person truly believes they will have a change of nature and show forth their faith.

If they do not have faith they cannot change or do any good works. All their works are dead works and flesh. Can a leopard change its spots?

Jeremiah 13:23. Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.”

Hebrews 6:1. “...the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,”
 
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