Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

BCsenior · Jul 26, 2019

nolidad said:
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

He is talking about "them that are sanctified (unto holiness)".
Trouble is ... sanctification is a process!
If one doesn't co-operate and go all the way, he never gets to the holiness part.

There is a positional sanctification, which is: "Hey, I'm gonna work on this person."
There is a progressive sanctification, where the person is continually worked on towards holiness!

Salvation includes BOTH justification and sanctification!
Salvation is a process!

Phil W · Jul 26, 2019

BCsenior said:
Gee, that's wonderful.
Except ... the NT tells you in several verses: "BE PERFECT!"
Need me to dig out those verses for you?

Don't you think that some have obeyed the exhortation...command?

Phil W · Jul 26, 2019

BCsenior said:
He is talking about "them that are sanctified (unto holiness)".
Trouble is ... sanctification is a process!
If one doesn't co-operate and go all the way, he never gets to the holiness part.

There is a positional sanctification, which is: "Hey, I'm gonna work on this person."
There is a process of sanctification where the person is continually worked on towards holiness!

Salvation includes BOTH justification and sanctification!
Salvation is a process!

Whose doctrine is it that you quote?
My sanctification happened when the blood of Christ was applied to my body...at my crucifixion with Christ. (Rom 6:3-7)
I need no further atonement, consecrating, setting apart, or made holier.
Those who are awaiting "more" sanctification are, according to your doctrine, unatoned for, unconsecrated, unset apart, and unholy.
That isn't the picture of the body of Christ I have always imagined.

BCsenior · Jul 26, 2019

Phil W said:
Whose doctrine is it that you quote?
My sanctification happened when the blood of Christ was applied to my body...at my crucifixion with Christ. (Rom 6:3-7)
I need no further atonement, consecrating, setting apart, or made holier.
Those who are awaiting "more" sanctification are, according to your doctrine, unatoned for, unconsecrated, unset apart, and unholy.
That isn't the picture of the body of Christ I have always imagined.

How about googling "progressive sanctification"?
Check out what others are saying instead of dismissing it outright.

Phil W · Jul 26, 2019

BCsenior said:
How about googling "progressive sanctification"?
Check out what others are saying instead of dismissing it outright.

No, thanks.
I believe what is written. (Heb 10:10, 14)

nolidad · Jul 26, 2019

Phil W said:
Wait a minute...you are driving on both sides of the road here.
If you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God, who is committing the sins?
That isn't the way of those who walk in the light-God.
If you are still walking in darkness-sin, you have no fellowship with God (1 John 1:6)

If you understood what was being said- you would understand it does not refer to the occasional stumble

Phil W said:
God doesn't justify those who hate Him.
He justifies those who have turned from sin to serve only Him.

Well He knows those who hate Him and He would never save them in teh first place!

But He justifies those who have placed their trust in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus as the payment for ALL their sins.

Phil W said:
And who is it that rejects Christ and His sufferings?
They who continue to spit on Him with their rebellion to Him.
Sinners!

And this just shows you have no understanding in the difference between those who stumble in sin and sinners! If you did you would not sound so much like a two day old Christian.

Phil W said:
If you were perfect you wouldn't commit any sin.

Well I believe god's Word over mans:
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Phil W said:
My understanding of the word has allowed me to live without sinning.
Has your's?

1 John 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Phil W said:
Were you ever baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins?
Weren't you "without sin" when you left the waters of baptism?
John is addressing two very different kinds of men and their very different kinds of walk, in 1 John 1.
One kind of man says he has fellowship with God but doesn't because he walks in darkness-sin.
He cannot say he has no sin.
The other walks in the light-God and has had all his sins washed away by the blood of Christ.
He can say he has no sin.
So, which kind of walk are you experiencing?

One who has been saved once for all by grace through faith without any works!

Then when I do stumble and sin- I have 1 John 1:9 and trust the god HImself will purge me of living in the old man in that area of my life.

Jesus tells His disciples to forgive 70X7 (I wonder if you know what that actually means) but your theology8 saysd if a believer sins- He is not saved!

All the bibles I read speak of the Holy and Just God being rich in mercy to all who call on Him!

Matthew 12:20
A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

Filled with love, and compassion and forgiveness. Teaching us to deny ungodliness and to live holy lives.
So you think yo were taught holiness the moment you got saved and ceased from sin the moment you sere born again. You are in for a rude rude awakening.

nolidad · Jul 26, 2019

BCsenior said:
It's all about having an acceptable heart attitude before God.
One who says, "I stand perfect before God!", has been deceived.
How about all of the "Fear the Lord!" NT verses?
Do I need to dig those out for you also?

Well I stand perfect before the Lord- not because I foolishly believe like others here that I have ceased from all sin 24/7/365. But because of God's decree

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

He, has declared me perfect and now He is making me to be what He has decreed! To HIm is the glory for that.

nolidad · Jul 26, 2019

Phil W said:
Our deaths are because of our own sins, not Adam's.

Have you ever read the book of Romans even once?

romans 5:

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

If a person lived a sinless life they would still grow old and die for they are by nature a sinner!

We do not become a sinner when we sin- we sin because we are by nature a sinner and born condemned!

Who has taught you?

nolidad · Jul 26, 2019

BCsenior said:
He is talking about "them that are sanctified (unto holiness)".
Trouble is ... sanctification is a process!
If one doesn't co-operate and go all the way, he never gets to the holiness part.

There is a positional sanctification, which is: "Hey, I'm gonna work on this person."
There is a progressive sanctification, where the person is continually worked on towards holiness!

Salvation includes BOTH justification and sanctification!
Salvation is a process!

Salvation is a process?

So you are not fully saved yet? Hogwash! Salvation is once for all time- we are born again and given all the Holy Spirit as a down payment.

Justicfication is a one time act.
Glorification is a one time act. According ot eh will fo God before He even created the world.

Sanctification is a process. It is the process of tossing th eold ways and adopting God ways as it says in Romans 12:1-2

Postional sanctification is as how God sees us and decreed us to be now!
Progressive sanctification is what god is doing to conform us to the image of Jesus day by day!

nolidad · Jul 28, 2019

Phil W said:
Wait a minute...you are driving on both sides of the road here.
If you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God, who is committing the sins?
That isn't the way of those who walk in the light-God.
If you are still walking in darkness-sin, you have no fellowship with God

No there is only one roads for a believer- the narrow road which is Christ!

Who commits the sin? 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Yes it is- God has perfected His children by Royal Decree, now He is making us what He has decreed us to be! Love is Gods guide- not sinlessness or you're done

Remember this:
1 John 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Phil- look at the pronoun John uses! It isn't they - meaning some other people! But he uses we- meaning He included himself and the church in this! Please do not try to reinterpret this!

CharismaticLady · Jul 29, 2019

nolidad said:
Well there is not one warning about a child of God who has been given eternal life- losing their salvation.

And we must remember thew Work that Jesus commanded:

John 6:28-29 King James Version (KJV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Does one who believes in Christ, show their love for Him by disobeying Him, or obeying?

nolidad · Jul 30, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Does one who believes in Christ, show their love for Him by disobeying Him, or obeying?

Of course to love is to obey! That is not iun question. what is in question is that some here say that if you sin - you have not been saved which is a lie!

Besides the issue is not our love for Christ- but Christs love for us!

To paraphrase someting Jesus said-. as parents when our children disobey us- we do not disown them and have their DNA changed so they are no longer our children! Of course not! We may discipline them in love to teach and then teach in love and with patience show them how to live away from those things that are harmful to them./ Why? because we love them, know they are not perfect and we wishg to keep them from those things that would harm them.

If we being evil can do this for ur children, how much more our Father in heaven will because His love for us is perfect while our love is so flawed!

CharismaticLady · Jul 30, 2019

nolidad said:
If we being evil can do this for ur children, how much more our Father in heaven will because His love for us is perfect while our love is so flawed!

I know the scripture you were trying to quote. But you didn't say what the subject was.

Phil W · Jul 30, 2019

nolidad said:
If you understood what was being said- you would understand it does not refer to the occasional stumble

I'm surprised you think there is some difference between those who sin once a week and those who sin everyday.
They are all sinners!

Well He knows those who hate Him and He would never save them in teh first place!

On that we agree.

But He justifies those who have placed their trust in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus as the payment for ALL their sins.

If we "have placed out trust in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus", we also trust that our old selves were eradicated when we joined with Christ in His death burial and resurrection to walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:3-7)

And this just shows you have no understanding in the difference between those who stumble in sin and sinners! If you did you would not sound so much like a two day old Christian.

Jesus said..."Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."...(John 8:34)
I have been freed from service to sin by, among other things, my knowledge of the truth. (John 8:32)

Well I believe god's Word over mans:
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

There is no sin in the sanctified.

1 John 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Perfectly apt scripture...for the party that walks in darkness.
But John is addressing two very different types of walk, two different kinds of men, in 1 John 1.
Those walking in the light, God, have had all their sins washed away by the blood of Christ.
They can say they have no sin.
After that washing, it is incumbent on us to remein in the light.
And, thanks be to God, it is possible.

One who has been saved once for all by grace through faith without any works!

Thanks be to God for freeing us from circumcision and dietary laws in order to obtain salvation.
That is the "works" written of by Paul.

Then when I do stumble and sin- I have 1 John 1:9 and trust the god HImself will purge me of living in the old man in that area of my life.

Why do you keep going back into darkness?

Jesus tells His disciples to forgive 70X7 (I wonder if you know what that actually means) but your theology says if a believer sins- He is not saved!

If he was a believer, he would obey God explicitly.
But of course if he believes he can keep walking in darkness and still have fellowship with God, he will keep walking in darkness till it is too late for a real repentance from sin.

So you think yo were taught holiness the moment you got saved and ceased from sin the moment you sere born again. You are in for a rude rude awakening.

Salvation will be assured at the final judgement, not before.
I "ceased from sin" when I shared in the sufferings of my Redeemer. (1 Peter 4:1)

Phil W · Jul 30, 2019

nolidad said:
Have you ever read the book of Romans even once?

Yes. I have.

romans 5:
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
If a person lived a sinless life they would still grow old and die for they are by nature a sinner!
We do not become a sinner when we sin- we sin because we are by nature a sinner and born condemned!

You seem to be unaware of rebirth...of God's seed.
And of the new, divine nature.
Don't make the mistake of confusing "life" with the condition of the vessel.

Phil W · Jul 30, 2019

nolidad said:
No there is only one roads for a believer- the narrow road which is Christ!

Wouldn't that road be free of sin?
I think so!

Who commits the sin? 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Sorry, I, like Paul in Romans 8:2, have been made free of the law of sin and death by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
Paul was narrating his preconversion failures under the Law.
Not lamenting a present condition.

Yes it is- God has perfected His children by Royal Decree, now He is making us what He has decreed us to be! Love is Gods guide- not sinlessness or you're done

Got a scripture on that "royal decree"?
Isn't sinlessness the manifestation of the love of God pouring out of us?

Remember this:
1 John 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Phil- look at the pronoun John uses! It isn't they - meaning some other people! But he uses we- meaning He included himself and the church in this! Please do not try to reinterpret this!

John is addressing those who walk in darkness with this verse.
Those who walk in the light can say they have no sin as there is no sin in the light.

CharismaticLady · Jul 30, 2019

Phil W said:
I'm surprised you think there is some difference between those who sin once a week and those who sin everyday.
They are all sinners!

On that we agree.

If we "have placed out trust in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus", we also trust that our old selves were eradicated when we joined with Christ in His death burial and resurrection to walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:3-7)

Jesus said..."Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."...(John 8:34)
I have been freed from service to sin by, among other things, my knowledge of the truth. (John 8:32)

There is no sin in the sanctified.

Perfectly apt scripture...for the party that walks in darkness.
But John is addressing two very different types of walk, two different kinds of men, in 1 John 1.
Those walking in the light, God, have had all their sins washed away by the blood of Christ.
They can say they have no sin.
After that washing, it is incumbent on us to remein in the light.
And, thanks be to God, it is possible.

Thanks be to God for freeing us from circumcision and dietary laws in order to obtain salvation.
That is the "works" written of by Paul.

Why do you keep going back into darkness?

If he was a believer, he would obey God explicitly.
But of course if he believes he can keep walking in darkness and still have fellowship with God, he will keep walking in darkness till it is too late for a real repentance from sin.

Salvation will be assured at the final judgement, not before.
I "ceased from sin" when I shared in the sufferings of my Redeemer. (1 Peter 4:1)

Well, we are sure on the same page! The key is the Spirit. There are many who have no power over sin and enjoy the false doctrines that excuse them.

BCsenior · Jul 30, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
There are many who have no power over sin
and enjoy the false doctrines that excuse them.

Only BACs have power over sin!
That's the #1 reason why the Word came ...
-- so BACs would NO longer be slaves of sin, etc.
-- so BACs could be overcomers over sin and go to heaven!

However, Satan has deceived many in these last days into believing in
false doctrines such as grace-only, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.
Many BACs think that sinning habitually is okay,
and they believe they are still going to heaven.
They are NOT going unless they sincerely repent (STOP their sinning).

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2019

nolidad said:
I am reborn and have my life hidden with Christ!

RE: "my life hidden with Christ"

Please read the whole chapter of Colossians 3 in context. Here is a small excerpt:

5-6
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. rsv

See also: James 1:21-22

Everyone who is baptized by water as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20 has been born of water and the Holy Spirit. It is this baptism which makes us reborn spiritually.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. rsv

Once a person has been reborn spiritually, he must then remain/abide in Christ by obeying God's commandments until he dies if he desires to enter into eternal life. Luke 18:18-24, Luke 10:25-28

John 15:10
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. rsv

John 15:6
If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. rsv

All my sins were forgiven. And when I do fail- God gave His children 1 John 1:9

If you sin after you are baptized, you must repent and confess your sins in order to be forgiven again. If you die with unrepented mortal sins on your soul, you will be thrown into hellfire. 1 John 2:1, Ephesians 5:5-8

A person who desires to abide in God chooses to not keep sinning! He disciplines himself so that he does not sin!

1 John 5:18
We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. rsv

1 Corinthians 9{24-27
Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable (crown of life). 26 Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; 27 but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. rsv

There will be many fallen away Christians who will not inherit eternal life. These people are Christians in-name-only. These poor misguided Christians actually believe that they will inherit eternal life but they will not. 2 Timothy 2:19

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ rsv

To paraphrase Gods inspired word- the only one who can condemn me is the one who once and for all time justified me!

It is true that Jesus will be our judge. John 5:22 Our own sins condemn us. Jesus has not once and for all time justified us. We deny Jesus as our Lord and Savior when we sin against His commandments. We lose our justification when we sin against His commandments.

Matthew 12:36-37
I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned. rsv

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed. rsv

James 5:12
But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath, but let your yes be yes and your no be no, that you may not fall under condemnation.

Sin no longer dictates ones judgement! Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world!
One does not go to hell because they are a sinner- they go to hell because they rejected the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sins, so they must pay the price themselves.

We will be judged by our works. Matthew 25:31-46

When a person sins a mortal sin against God's commandments, he has truly rejected the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for his sins. 1 John 5:16-17

Hebrews 10:29-31
How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. rsv

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire. rsv

God has perfected me FOREVER!
God the father drew me to Jesus and Jesus promised He would for no reason cast me out!
I know that nothing can separate me from the love of God in Christ Jesus!
I was given eternal life- not temporary eternal life (what is that anyway)

No, God has not already perfected you forever. Do you still sin? If you do, you have not yet been perfected. You still have work to do on yourself!

Matthew 5:48
You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. rsv

Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. rsv

Philippians 3:12
Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. rsv

1 John 2:4-6
He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. rsv

I am sorry your concept of God is so distorted by a faulty understanding of His Word!

Just remember when you think you are sinlessly perfect now:

1 John 1-8 KJV
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

That is in the present active indicative. Someone has taught you very
wrongly

If a person continues to sin, he is deceiving himself that he is perfect!

Paul's advice is pertinent to this discussion:

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; rsv

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers. rsv

BCsenior · Jul 30, 2019

Jan001 said:
Once a person has been reborn spiritually,
he must then remain/abide in Christ
by obeying God's commandments until he dies
if he desires to enter into eternal life.
Luke 18:18-24, Luke 10:25-28

Thank you for posting all of those Scriptures ... and there are many more!

May I add that it's all about having the correct heart attitude.
Trying, confessing, repenting, etc. will surely get the job done.
IMO, it's more important than being absolutely perfect, thank God!

Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

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