Second coming not on time?

Daniel Marsh · Jul 21, 2019

Jonaitis said:
"Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." - Matthew 16:28

Well, this can be understood in light of what the Lord said in this passage:

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." - John 5:28

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"Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?" - Matthew 24:3

The Lord Jesus in the following words explains the various events that must occur before his return. I have seen verse 4-9...

Oh, wait, I am not allowed to speak anymore about this since I am a partial-"peterist." That's okay

(btw, partial peterist don't hold that Christ already returned).

The "when will these things be" is the first question related to his death, resurrection and ascension. Thanks for point out the verse.

Daniel Marsh · Jul 21, 2019

1213 said:
Matthew 16:27-28 came true in this:

After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. Behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them talking with him.
Matt. 17:1-3

Perhaps the things Jesus refers to in Matthew 24:34 have already happened.

I think it is good to notice also, the "last day" was not known even by Jesus, only God knows it.

But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt. 24:36

That is a possibility that I forgot about. thanks

Daniel Marsh · Jul 21, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
Have We Missed the Second Coming

No, because there was not general resurrection of everyone and Judgement.

2 Thessalonians 2 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
Before Christ’s coming there will be certain signs
2 1-4 Now we do implore you, by the very certainty of Christ’s coming and of our meeting him together, to keep your heads and not be thrown off balance by any prediction or message or letter purporting to come from us, and saying that the day of Christ is almost here. Don’t let anyone deceive you by any means whatsoever. That day will not come before there arises a definite rejection of God and the appearance of the lawless man. He is the product of all that leads to death, and he sets himself up in opposition to every religion. He himself takes his seat in the temple of God, to show that he really claims to be God.

5-12 I expect you remember now how I talked about this when I was with you. You will probably also remember how I used to talk about a “restraining power” which would operate until the time should come for the emergence of this man. Evil is already insidiously at work but its activities are restricted until what I have called the “restraining power” (of God) is removed. When that happens the lawless man will be plainly seen—though the truth of the Lord Jesus spells his doom, and the radiance of the coming of the Lord Jesus will be his utter destruction. The lawless man is produced by the spirit of evil and armed with all the force, wonders and signs that falsehood can devise. To those involved in this dying world he will come with evil’s undiluted power to deceive, for they have refused to love the truth which could have saved them. God sends upon them, therefore, the full force of evil’s delusion, so that they put their faith in an utter fraud and meet the inevitable judgment of all who have refused to believe the truth and who have made evil their play-fellow.

You, thank God, belong to those who believe the truth
13-15 But we can thank God continually for you, brothers, whom the Lord loves. He has chosen you from the beginning to save you, to make you holy by the work of his Spirit and your own belief in the truth. It was his call that you followed when we preached the Gospel to you, and he has set before you the prospect of sharing the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So stand firm, and hold on! Be loyal to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or in writings.

16-17 May the Lord Jesus Christ and God our Father (who has loved us and given us unending encouragement and unfailing hope by his grace) inspire you with courage and confidence in every good thing you say or do.

Daniel Marsh · Jul 21, 2019

claninja said:
As someone who leans towards a preterist interpretation, I would disagree that the resurrection is a metaphor or spiritual focus.

As a preterist, I believe in bodily resurrection: natural body sown, spiritual body raised, Just a Paul puts it.

1 Corinthians 15:44-46 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit. The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and then the spiritual.

The partial preterist believes in a future coming of Christ. It is then, on the last day, at His coming, that the believer is resurrection/raised into their spiritual body to be present in the heavenly Kingdom of the Lord.

The full preterist believes the coming of Christ occurred in 70AD. From that point on, any believer who dies is instantly resurrected into their spiritual body to be present in the heavenly kingdom of the Lord.

Revelation 14:8-13 Then a second angel followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great,b who has made all the nations drink the wine of the passion of her immorality.” And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

The full preterist believes Ezekiel 43:7 is fulfilled.
Ezekiel 43:7 and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever.

Acts 7:48-49 However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says: ‘Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool.

God now dwells with his temple, the body of Christ, forever, whether they are in heaven (the place of his throne) in the spiritually raised body or on earth (his footstool) in the yet to be sown natural body.

What is a preterist? Who are the most advanced authors?

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 21, 2019

devin553344 said:
I read this Christian article on the second coming and am confused about the following scriptures. They appear to be depicting the second coming as happening 2000 years ago? But surely this hasn't happened. So what is the current interpretation of this. Or has there been another thread on this already?
Matthew 16:27-28
Matthew 24:3,Matthew 24:34
Matthew 26:64

claninja said: ↑As someone who leans towards a preterist interpretation, I would disagree that the resurrection is a metaphor or spiritual focus.

As a preterist, I believe in bodily resurrection: natural body sown, spiritual body raised, Just a Paul puts it.

Daniel Marsh said:
What is a preterist? Who are the most advanced authors?

Oldmantook said:
You might want to study preterism, partial-preterism which advocates that idea. A bunch of baloney and a dangerous doctrine if you ask me

So let's do a study on Preterism...........
Partial Preterism [and Amill] are allowed to be discussed on the Eschatology board
[however, full Preterism can only be discussed on the CCT board]

Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose

Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero. The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system

One of the most comprehensive sites on Preterism:

http://www.preteristarchive.com/

https://www.preteristarchive.com/category/significance-of-ad70/

Did Jesus divide His Olivet Discourses between two subjects and separate their fulfillment by thousands of years? If so, how or when?
Tags

===========================
https://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html

70ad
A coming (parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish Age
(Source: R.C. Sproul, Last Days)

Still future
The Coming (parousia) of Christ
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 24, 2019

Albion said: ↑
Incidentally, Scripture also says that the Gospel is to be preached to the whole world and then will come the end (Mt 24:14). It has been argued that it is only in our lifetimes that modern communications have made delivering the Gospel to all nations a reality, so now should be the end of the church age with a Second Coming as imminent.

parousia70 said:
If we are to believe scripture, According to the Apostle Paul, writing under the infallible inspiration of the Holy Spirit, The Gospel was preached to the whole world by the Late 60's AD:

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken ofthroughout the whole world.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith;

Great verses parousia70
I don't see how it can be the whole global world.
Look at the Greek word used in the Matt 24:14 of the 70ad Olivet Discourse......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world<3625>, for a testimony to all nations; and then shall the end come.
1Pe 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first beginneth at us, what will be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God?

"OIKOUMENE"(#G3625) In Olivet Discourse and Revelation. Mistranslated?

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

3625. oikoumene oy-kou-men'-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.

Strong's Number G3625 οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē), occurs 15 times in 15 verses
οἰκουμένη, οἰκουμένης, ἡ (feminine of the present passive participle from οἰκέω (namely, γῆ; cf. Winers Grammar, § 64, 5; Buttmann, § 123, 8));
1. the inhabited earth;
a. in Greek writings often the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians, cf. Passow, ii., p. 415a; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, I.).
b. in the Greek authors who wrote about Roman affairs (like the Latinorbis terrarum) equivalent to the Roman empire: so πᾶσα ἡ οἰκουμένη contextually equivalent to all the subjects of this empire, Luke 2:1.

#3625 mentioned 15 times
oikoumenhV <3625> Luke 4:5, Romans 10:18, Reve 3:10, Reve 16:14.
oikoumenh <3625> Matt 24:14, Luke 21:26, Acts 19:27
oikoumenhn <3625> 8 times Luke 2:1, Acts 11:28, 17:6, 31, 24:5, Hebrew 1:6, 2:5, Reve 12:9.

Daniel Marsh · Jul 26, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
So let's do a study on Preterism...........
Partial Preterism [and Amill] are allowed to be discussed on the Eschatology board
[however, full Preterism can only be discussed on the CCT board]

Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose
One of the most comprehensive sites on Preterism:

http://www.preteristarchive.com/

https://www.preteristarchive.com/category/significance-of-ad70/

Did Jesus divide His Olivet Discourses between two subjects and separate their fulfillment by thousands of years? If so, how or when?
Tags

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===========================
https://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html

70ad
A coming (parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish Age
(Source: R.C. Sproul, Last Days)

Still future
The Coming (parousia) of Christ
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history

Matthew 24 American Standard Version (ASV)
24 And Jesus went out from the temple, and was going on his way; and his disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 But he answered and said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The first question "when shall these things be?" relates to what he said in verse 2.

The second question "what shall be the sign of thy coming?" relates to either the Ascension or Second Coming, I forget which.

It is that simple, friend.

Daniel Marsh · Jul 26, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Great verses parousia70
I don't see how it can be the whole global world.
Look at the Greek word used in the Matt 24:14 of the 70ad Olivet Discourse......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world<3625>, for a testimony to all nations; and then shall the end come.
1Pe 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first beginneth at us, what will be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God?

"OIKOUMENE"(#G3625) In Olivet Discourse and Revelation. Mistranslated?

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

3625. oikoumene oy-kou-men'-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.

Strong's Number G3625 οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē), occurs 15 times in 15 verses
οἰκουμένη, οἰκουμένης, ἡ (feminine of the present passive participle from οἰκέω (namely, γῆ; cf. Winers Grammar, § 64, 5; Buttmann, § 123, 8));
1. the inhabited earth;
a. in Greek writings often the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians, cf. Passow, ii., p. 415a; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, I.).
b. in the Greek authors who wrote about Roman affairs (like the Latinorbis terrarum) equivalent to the Roman empire: so πᾶσα ἡ οἰκουμένη contextually equivalent to all the subjects of this empire, Luke 2:1.

#3625 mentioned 15 times
oikoumenhV <3625> Luke 4:5, Romans 10:18, Reve 3:10, Reve 16:14.
oikoumenh <3625> Matt 24:14, Luke 21:26, Acts 19:27
oikoumenhn <3625> 8 times Luke 2:1, Acts 11:28, 17:6, 31, 24:5, Hebrew 1:6, 2:5, Reve 12:9.

A word gets its meaning from its context, not how it is used elsewhere.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the meaning of the word one from John 17 and reads that meaning into John 10:30 to avoid the fact that Jesus is God Almighty.

What you presented was one of the well known word study fallacies.

Daniel Marsh · Jul 26, 2019

read to here.

Thanks for using a primary source to define, I forget what it was.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 26, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
The first question "when shall these things be?" relates to what he said in verse 2.
The second question "what shall be the sign of thy coming?" relates to either the Ascension or Second Coming, I forget which.
It is that simple, friend.

"Parousia".........

http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html

70ad:
A coming (parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish/Temple Age
(Source: R.C. Sproul, Last Days)

Still future:
The Coming (parousia) of Christ
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history
==================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end<4930> of the Age?

Mark 13
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
4 Tell us! when these shall be?
and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be fully concluded<4931>.

Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when then shall these be being?
And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?
====================
Please visit my "hearing of battles" thread......

"Ye will hear of battles and rumors of battles" 1st century Judea

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and hearings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>

Mark 13:7
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and hearings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>

Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 9, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Great verses parousia70
I don't see how it can be the whole global world.
Look at the Greek word used in the Matt 24:14 of the 70ad Olivet Discourse.....

Daniel Marsh said:
A word gets its meaning from its context, not how it is used elsewhere.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the meaning of the word one from John 17 and reads that meaning into John 10:30 to avoid the fact that Jesus is God Almighty.

What you presented was one of the well known word study fallacies.

Ya think?

davsunram · Aug 9, 2019

Quoting from my treatise (freely downloadable from https://davidsundom.weebly.com/uploads/7/7/6/5/7765474/what_jesus_meant_ds.pdf ):

"Jesus’ prescient depiction of the next such ‘coming’ event, wherein those who are prepared to do so soulfully ‘wake up’ to the Whole Truth and therefore enter into and thereafter continue to consciously live in communion with the Totality of Life while others ‘fall’ by the wayside and get recyled (so to speak), to wit: “As the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. … they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:27 30), does not mean that he will then literally flash across the sky and be seen everywhere as he ‘gloriously’ orbits the planet in person. People who are emotionally invested in worshiping Jesus himself as a super-magical genie kind of God will undoubtedly regard the explanation that follows as being unacceptably heretical, but assuming you are not one such – why would you still be engaged in exploring this thesis otherwise? – let me submit that the above-quoted statement only makes real sense if one interprets it metaphorically, with “heaven” being understood as referencing the realm of consciousness and (so) “the clouds” as referencing the particularities of ideological constellations, or philosophies, within it.

“The Son of man” alludes to the corpus of human apprehension, or ‘knowing’ (often spoken of as Cosmic Consciousness) pertaining to Life as a Whole; that is, to the entirety of the living system composed by and of our creative Source (i.e. God, ‘the Father’), All That Is (i.e., The Entity of Creation, ‘the Son’, a/k/a Christ), and everyone’s relationally interfused interaction(s) therewith and therein, as postulated and discussed hitherto herein. The “lightning” that shines “out of the east … even unto the west” analogically dramatizes the way in which powerfully functional thoughts, i.e. ‘knowings’, are psychically transmitted and received and (so) spread throughout our noosphere. The overall implication, of course, being that consciousness of what the words “I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you” (John 14:20) super-succinctly signify will illuminatingly permeate the thinking of holistically inclined people wherever they may be located all over the world.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 9, 2019

alv_c said: ↑
The second coming will happen in the Year 6000 YB, Year from the Beginning, because that will begin the millennial Shabbath of this heaven and earth. Read this study What Year the Second Coming Will Be, the Millennial Shabbath of the Year 6000 YB, Yovels, and the 1290+1335 Days of Daniel | Wisdom of God .

Poppycock..........

devin553344 said:
Boy will he be embarassed when it comes later. I think we'll be like star trek by then and travel the stars?

Or maybe not...........
I am more partial to Star Wars...........

Second coming not on time?

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