"Nations rage and people plot in vain" ~ Psalm 2:1
People still have free will - but that doesn't mean that God is NOT ultimately in authority.
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When do the saints inherit the kingdom?
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People still have free will - but that doesn't mean that God is NOT ultimately in authority.
Yours is a fake theology, when the Lord returns all evil will be gone.
2 Thees 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
Malachi 4 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Great Day of God
1 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
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keras
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The fact that an explosion of the suns surface will cause all the things prophesied about the terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, is amply proved by over 100 scriptures. Incl; 1 Thess 1:6-10, which does NOT describe Jesus' Return.
2 Peter 3:11-13 is a description of the New Universe, after the Millennium.
This is our situation now.
Many prophesies describe a future literal Kingdom with a physical Jesus as King.
People who can't see this happening, have a very limited view of God's Plans and seem unable to realize how quickly things can change.
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Is this ALSO future (in your mind)?
John 1:29 ~ On the next day, he sees Jesus coming to him and says, "Behold the Lamb of God, the One taking away the sin of the world.
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I guess you believe Jesus was mistaken then, when He said this?:
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."
Matthew 28:18
Or worse yet, Lying?
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2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
.
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1) again, you must therefore believe Jesus was mistaken (or worse, Lying) when He PROMISED His thief's coming would befall 1st century peoples (Revelation 3:3)
2) Righteousness PRESENTLY dwells in the New Covenant, right here on earth.
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mister rogers
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4th kingdom I believe was Rome. It seems there is a present and consummate reality of being in the kingdom of God. We are already in Christ and He presently reigns seated at the Father's right hand. Then at the resurrection is the new heaven and earth.
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keras
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Just posting the scriptures proves your case?
The Lord Jesus will not return in fire, the 3 prophesies about the Return, Zephaniah 14:3, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 19:11 do not mention fire.
He will send fire on His Day of wrath. Isaiah 66:15, Amos 1, 2 Peter 3:7
2 Peter 3:11-13 is plainly about the New Heavens and new earth; Revelation 21:1-7
Please explain how you beliefs fit with all these scriptures.
We can all read the scriptures, its up to you to show how and why you think Jesus burns up everything when He Returns.
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Where there is smoke, there is fire...
Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Rev 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
.
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keras
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Whats your point BaB?
You have just made mine, showing that the destruction of the sinful city happens before the Return.
Obviously all of Revelation 18 occurs before the Return.
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Are you saying the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
.
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In the physical, it will be when Jesus returns and the 1st resurrection happens.
John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”
But ... in the meantime we experience the heavenly ... spiritually through Jesus.
Matthew 6:10
Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
1 Corinthians 6:17
But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
When Jesus returns we will be joined with Him, both spiritually and physically in heaven.
Romans 8:11
If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
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Claninja said:
Claninja said:
I just read these two articles this morning - and I believe the timing of this coincides with the Parable of the Tenants. I believe the timing was future to Paul - but past to us (the transcovenantal period). I really appreciate the language of these two explanations:
Quoting from linked article:
Of course, the mismanagement of the vineyard on the part of the tenant farmers (the Jewish leaders) and their mistreatment of the owner’s emissaries (the prophets) and murder of the owner’s son (Christ) might raise questions about the extent of the Lord’s mastery. With such willful violation of His rule by the leaders of the old covenant community, could we really say that He was fully in control? The answer, provided in today’s passage, is a resounding yes.
Jesus quotes Psalm 118:22–23 in Mark 12:10–12 to show that despite appearances to the contrary, God was in control even of those who rejected His prophets and is in control of those who will kill His only begotten Son. It is the Lord’s plan that the stone be rejected so that He can make it the “cornerstone.” The term translated “cornerstone” refers to a capstone placed at the top of a corner where two walls come together. It is a piece of the building essential to its integrity that holds the entire structure together. Jesus is saying that though the Jewish leaders reject Him, that does not mean the end of the vineyard; instead, it is the occasion for faithful tenants to take the place of the faithless tenant farmers. A new structure is coming into place that has continuity with the old one—the vineyard remains, and it still has tenants and is protected by walls—but is also different in important ways—its leaders will include Gentiles (see v. 9), and Christ Himself will be known by all as its guardian and sustainer.
The parable of the tenants, then, points to the glory and power of God in orchestrating the rejection and exaltation of His Son and the continuation of His kingdom (“this was the Lord’s doing”). In this, it greatly encourages us when we see the church under attack from professed leaders who are really wolves in sheep’s clothing. John Calvin comments, “Whatever may be the contrivances of men, God has at the same time declared, that in setting up the kingdom of Christ, His power will be victorious.” ~ Ligonier Ministries
Quoting from another linked article:
Isaiah 5:1-7
Psalm 80:9, 12-16, 19-20
Philippians 4:6-9
Matthew 21:33-43
In today’s Gospel Jesus returns to the Old Testament symbol of the vineyard to teach about Israel, the Church, and the kingdom of God.
And the symbolism of today’s First Reading and Psalm is readily understood.
God is the owner and the house of Israel is the vineyard. A cherished vine, Israel was plucked from Egypt and transplanted in a fertile land specially spaded and prepared by God, hedged about by the city walls of Jerusalem, watched over by the towering Temple. But the vineyard produced no good grapes for the wine, a symbol for the holy lives God wanted for His people. So God allowed His vineyard to be overrun by foreign invaders, as Isaiah foresees in the First Reading.
Jesus picks up the story where Isaiah leaves off, even using Isaiah’s words to describe the vineyard’s wine press, hedge, and watchtower. Israel’s religious leaders, the tenants in His parable, have learned nothing from Isaiah or Israel’s past. Instead of producing good fruits, they’ve killed the owner’s servants, the prophets sent to gather the harvest of faithful souls.
In a dark foreshadowing of His own crucifixion outside Jerusalem, Jesus says the tenants’ final outrage will be to seize the owner’s son, and to kill him outside the vineyard walls.
For this, the vineyard, which Jesus calls the kingdom of God, will be taken away and given to new tenants – the leaders of the Church, who will produce its fruit.
We are each a vine in the Lord’s vineyard, grafted onto the true vine of Christ (see John 15:1-8), called to bear fruits of the righteousness in Him (see Philippians 1:11), and to be the “first fruits” of a new creation (see James 1:18). ~ Living on the Vine: Scott Hahn Reflects on the Twenty-Seventh Sunday in Ordinary Time | St. Paul Center
“Have you not read this Scripture: ‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?” (vv. 10–11).- Mark 12:10–12
Commenting on the parable of the tenants in Mark 12:1–12, one author notes how the sovereign providential rule of God is evident throughout the story. We see it operative at the parable’s beginning, when Jesus refers to the owner, who represents the Lord, building the vineyard, setting up a protective wall, and appointing tenant farmers. Similarly, God’s providential rule includes His establishing this reign in the creation of the universe and His calling of Israel in the exodus from Egypt to be His people.
Of course, the mismanagement of the vineyard on the part of the tenant farmers (the Jewish leaders) and their mistreatment of the owner’s emissaries (the prophets) and murder of the owner’s son (Christ) might raise questions about the extent of the Lord’s mastery. With such willful violation of His rule by the leaders of the old covenant community, could we really say that He was fully in control? The answer, provided in today’s passage, is a resounding yes.
Jesus quotes Psalm 118:22–23 in Mark 12:10–12 to show that despite appearances to the contrary, God was in control even of those who rejected His prophets and is in control of those who will kill His only begotten Son. It is the Lord’s plan that the stone be rejected so that He can make it the “cornerstone.” The term translated “cornerstone” refers to a capstone placed at the top of a corner where two walls come together. It is a piece of the building essential to its integrity that holds the entire structure together. Jesus is saying that though the Jewish leaders reject Him, that does not mean the end of the vineyard; instead, it is the occasion for faithful tenants to take the place of the faithless tenant farmers. A new structure is coming into place that has continuity with the old one—the vineyard remains, and it still has tenants and is protected by walls—but is also different in important ways—its leaders will include Gentiles (see v. 9), and Christ Himself will be known by all as its guardian and sustainer.
The parable of the tenants, then, points to the glory and power of God in orchestrating the rejection and exaltation of His Son and the continuation of His kingdom (“this was the Lord’s doing”). In this, it greatly encourages us when we see the church under attack from professed leaders who are really wolves in sheep’s clothing. John Calvin comments, “Whatever may be the contrivances of men, God has at the same time declared, that in setting up the kingdom of Christ, His power will be victorious.” ~ Ligonier Ministries
Quoting from another linked article:
Isaiah 5:1-7
Psalm 80:9, 12-16, 19-20
Philippians 4:6-9
Matthew 21:33-43
In today’s Gospel Jesus returns to the Old Testament symbol of the vineyard to teach about Israel, the Church, and the kingdom of God.
And the symbolism of today’s First Reading and Psalm is readily understood.
God is the owner and the house of Israel is the vineyard. A cherished vine, Israel was plucked from Egypt and transplanted in a fertile land specially spaded and prepared by God, hedged about by the city walls of Jerusalem, watched over by the towering Temple. But the vineyard produced no good grapes for the wine, a symbol for the holy lives God wanted for His people. So God allowed His vineyard to be overrun by foreign invaders, as Isaiah foresees in the First Reading.
Jesus picks up the story where Isaiah leaves off, even using Isaiah’s words to describe the vineyard’s wine press, hedge, and watchtower. Israel’s religious leaders, the tenants in His parable, have learned nothing from Isaiah or Israel’s past. Instead of producing good fruits, they’ve killed the owner’s servants, the prophets sent to gather the harvest of faithful souls.
In a dark foreshadowing of His own crucifixion outside Jerusalem, Jesus says the tenants’ final outrage will be to seize the owner’s son, and to kill him outside the vineyard walls.
For this, the vineyard, which Jesus calls the kingdom of God, will be taken away and given to new tenants – the leaders of the Church, who will produce its fruit.
We are each a vine in the Lord’s vineyard, grafted onto the true vine of Christ (see John 15:1-8), called to bear fruits of the righteousness in Him (see Philippians 1:11), and to be the “first fruits” of a new creation (see James 1:18). ~ Living on the Vine: Scott Hahn Reflects on the Twenty-Seventh Sunday in Ordinary Time | St. Paul Center
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When we are born again, we are brought into the kingdom of the son, which is a present reality and was established at the 1st advent.
Colossians 1:13 He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son
We are then fellow workers in the kingdom
Colossians 4:11 Jesus, who is called Justus, also sends greetings. These are the only Jews among my fellow workers for the kingdom of God, and they have been a comfort to me.
We are then a royal priest hood in the kingdom.
1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light
We then enjoy peace, righteous, and joy in the Holy Spirit in the kingdom
Romans 14:17 the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit
And Spirit given to us is a guarantee of what is to come.
2 Corinthians 5:5 And God has prepared us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a pledge of what is to come.
But it is after the separate of the righteous and unrighteous that the righteous inherit the kingdom.
Matthew 25:33-34 He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world
Which is confirmed by Paul, that it is not flesh and blood that inherit the kingdom, but those who partake in the bodily resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:50-54 Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothedf with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
Thus, it is appears to be that the kingdom is established at the first advent of Christ. It is then a present reality, especially for those who have been born again and transferred out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of the son. The saints then inherit the kingdom at the bodily resurrection. Just as the son of man received the kingdom at his ascension (Daniel 7:13-14, Luke 19:12), albeit present during his ministry (Luke 10:9), the saints appear to inherit the kingdom at the bodily resurrection, albeit a present reality that we now live in.
According to Daniel , the kingdom is set up during the kings of the 4th kingdom (Daniel 2:44) and is also inherited by the saints around the time of the 4th kingdom (Daniel 7:17).
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I would agree. Jesus clearly states the kingdom would be given to the nation producing its fruit at the destruction of the wicked tenants.
Mathew 21:43 Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
I would argue this is a clear reference to Israel, as the Pharisees realize Jesus was talking about them
Matthew 21:45 When the chief priests and Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew He was speaking about them
Interestingly enough, Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70ad. This would have been during the time of Daniel's 4th kingdom, thus coinciding with Daniel as to when the saints would receive the kingdom.
Daniel 7:17 These four great beasts are four kings who will arise from the earth. But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever—yes, forever and ever.’
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keras
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Matthew 21:43a is a clear reference to Judah; the Jewish people. Who remain in apostasy and rejection of Jesus today.
The people the Kingdom is given to are every faithful Christian; from every race, nation and language. Revelation 5:10
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And what event was the vehicle by which this "transfer" of the kingdom took place?
According to Jesus it was "The Coming of the Lord of the Vineyard to destroy them"
Matthew 21:40-41
I expect He was correct.
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keras
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Yes; it happened in 70-135 AD and will again at the Sixth Seal.
Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.
This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people.
1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5
2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27
3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10
The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:4
This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8
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I agree the 4th kingdom was Rome. For it is during the Roman empire, that Christ came in the flesh. Thus through his ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the Spirit, the Kingdom was established(Daniel 2:44, Daniel 7:13-14, Mark 1:15, Luke 10:9, Mark 9:1, Romans 14:17, colossians 4:11, Revelation 12:10). It is through Christ's ascension to the Father that he inherited the kingdom (Daniel 7:13-14, Luke 19:12). And if Christ inherited the kingdom at his resurrection and ascension, then I would argue that the saints also inherit the kingdom through their resurrection and ascension (, Matthew 25:33-34, 1 Corinthians 15:50-54, 2 timothy 4:18), which according to Daniel would take place around the time of the 4th kingdom (Daniel 7:17), and according to Paul's belief, was "about to " occur.
Acts 24:25 and I have the same hope in God that they themselves cherish, that there is about be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
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