Trump could once again win electoral college

Electoral College vote -- Will Trump win again?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 70.6%
  • No

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • If so we will be celebrating on the mountain

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • If so I'm moving to another country

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    17

tulc

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(snip)
Another quote "If it aint broke, dont fix it"
...who said it's broke? I will point out when people can casually toss aside about 3,000,000 American tax paying voters votes that sounds like a system that, while not "broken" definitely does sound like it's in need of a tune up. :wave:
tulc(knows even the best "machines" need to be tuned up every now and then) :)
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Goats are happy jumping with joy as they looked at the (always correct) poll results.

Trump walks away with it in 2020.

This means that for
four more years they will be
EATING HIGH ON THE HOG.

THANK YOU Mr. PRESIDENT TRUMP.

signed, Goats for America

M-Bob
 
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Arcangl86

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Don't ask me why.

I merely said "For a historical standpoint". That is what I see "historically"

Our "checks and balance" system and how we are setup for elections, is there for a reason. Thomas Jefferson couldn't have said it any better.

"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

In an unfair world, our system is the most fair. It's worked for over 200 years. Why "fix it"?

Another quote "If it aint broke, dont fix it"
The electoral system was designed for a late 18th century agrarian society with a severely limited franchise. That doesn't mean it's the best choice for a 21st century industrial society with universal suffrage over the age of 18. And this is a serious question, but if the tides were reversed would you still think that the system is working fine?
 
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Albion

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The electoral system was designed for a late 18th century agrarian society with a severely limited franchise. That doesn't mean it's the best choice for a 21st century industrial society with universal suffrage over the age of 18. And this is a serious question, but if the tides were reversed would you still think that the system is working fine?
Even if we were to agree with that analysis of history, it doesn't recommend replacing the Electoral College with a direct, national popular vote. Not by a long shot!

However, if anyone wants to start up a committee to work for an amendment to the Constitution that would replace or modify the Electoral College, that is their right. The Constitution has been amended before when there was a perceived need and it will happen again.
 
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Shiloh Raven

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No, what the Republicans want is to keep America a Representative Republic, not a mob rule tyranny of the majority called Democracy.

If Republicans want to keep America a Representative Republic, then why is Trump and his supporters telling Democrats to leave the country when they criticize America and its current administration?

You mean how every single other election in America is done is an example of the "mob rule tyranny of the majority called Democracy"? (tm) Well...except that one election we have that apparently favors the Republicans of course. :sorry:
tulc(didn't realize America is such a hotbed of mob rule) :eek:

That reminds me of being a liberal in Texas and being surrounded by conservatives.
 
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Acts2:38

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Hey bud! How you doing?

I will point out when people can casually toss aside about 3,000,000 American tax paying voters votes

Their votes were not tossed aside. The EC 98% of the time votes and leans to the votes of the state they represent. If the majority of CA votes Dem, then ALL of its points from the EC go to the Dem nominee. I don't see any tossing aside there.

definitely does sound like it's in need of a tune up. :wave:
tulc(knows even the best "machines" need to be tuned up every now and then) :)

I don't think "tune up" is the word your looking for. More like change or reform.

Tune up is more in line with "restoration" or restoring it to its peak performance. In which case you would be more in line with saying you wanted the EC in its more predecessor form (since it went through a few changes since the founding of the nation)
 
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Acts2:38

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The electoral system was designed for a late 18th century agrarian society with a severely limited franchise. That doesn't mean it's the best choice for a 21st century industrial society with universal suffrage over the age of 18.

That has nothing to do with this. In that case, by your theory, we should throw out our constitution as well. Ridiculous right?

No. It works. The only problem is people now days are so sensitive they cant take losing so they scream at the sky and put PTSD animal petting zoos on college campuses and such. (not implying you did any of this)

Dems win here and there, Repubs win here and there. It happens. I didn't like Clinton in the 90's, I didnt want bush, I didnt want Obama, but I never went around complaining for almost 4 years (almost 4 years of complaining that trump won) about them.

And this is a serious question, but if the tides were reversed would you still think that the system is working fine?

Yes. I love the system the founding fathers had placed. It is the best system the world has to offer. Sure things are not perfect, but it is the best.

I never wanted Obama, but I lost that vote twice. I didn't get upset to the point of screaming at the sky or anything like that. He was the president, he won. Sure it wasn't the same situation you imply, but still, I wouldn't cry about it.
 
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tulc

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Hey bud! How you doing?
I'm doing excellent, I just found a meat rub made with ground coffee and other spices and can't wait to try it out! :clap:


Their votes were not tossed aside. The EC 98% of the time votes and leans to the votes of the state they represent. If the majority of CA votes Dem, then ALL of its points from the EC go to the Dem nominee. I don't see any tossing aside there.
Except in the tweak I'm suggesting all those votes wouldn't go to "winner take all" they would be allocated among the candidates who got the most votes. So a percentage of those would have gone to President Trump as well as Sec Clinton. That way they would represent the voters better. :wave:



I don't think "tune up" is the word your looking for. More like change or reform.

Tune up is more in line with "restoration" or restoring it to its peak performance. In which case you would be more in line with saying you wanted the EC in its more predecessor form (since it went through a few changes since the founding of the nation)
If you say so, I can live with calling it "change or reform" as well. ;)
tulc(tries to be amendable when he can) :)
 
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The Barbarian

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I'm doing excellent, I just found a meat rub made with ground coffee and other spices and can't wait to try it out!

That's what coffee is for; it's the original use of coffee, until troglodytes made a foul decoction of the spice, and drank it for the drug experience.
 
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Orthodoxjay1

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Shiloh Raven

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https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/23/president-trump-lose-5-million-votes-still-win-2020/

Victory is on the way. In the battle for soul of America, and the survival of Christianity in America, President Trump is to the rescue in 2020.

The soul of America and the survival of Christianity in America is the hands of a twice divorced adulterous womanizer who sexually groped multiple women and had an affair with a inappropriate content star?

I guess a lot of right wing Christians must be feeling deeply threatened if they are looking to a blatantly immoral man like Trump to save their longstanding entitlement status in this country.

It's sad that his devoted and loyal voting base are being accused of compromising their convictions and abandoning their principles to support him. It's disheartening to know that their Christian faith has been called "Toxic Christianity" because so many conservative Christians faithfully support him.

How has President Trump changed white Christians' views of 'morality'?

How could Christians support Trump’s lies? It depends on what you mean by ‘truth.’

Evangelicals Who Denounced Bill Clinton Affair, Silent On Donald Trump And Stormy Daniels
 
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The Barbarian

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The soul of America and the survival of Christianity in America is the hands of a twice divorced adulterous womanizer who sexually groped multiple women and had an affair with a inappropriate content star?

This sure isn't Billy Graham's evangelical Christianity, is it?
 
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Shiloh Raven

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This sure isn't Billy Graham's evangelical Christianity, is it?

No, it certainly isn't. It's too bad Franklin tarnished his father's legacy by endorsing Trump. But that's not the first time he's compromised his personal convictions to suit his political conservative agenda.

He condemned Bill Clinton in 1998: "Bill Clinton's months-long extramarital sexual behavior in the Oval Office now concerns him and the rest of the world, not just his immediate family. If he will lie to or mislead his wife and daughter, those with whom he is most intimate, what will prevent him from doing the same to the American public?"

Source: What Franklin Graham Said About the “Private Sins” of Bill Clinton in 1998

He defended Donald Trump in 2018: “I think some of these things — that’s for him and his wife to deal with. I think when the country went after President Clinton, the Republicans, that was a great mistake that should never have happened. And I think the same with Stormy Daniels and so forth is nobody’s business. And we’ve got other business at hand that we need to deal with.”

Source: Evangelist Franklin Graham Says Donald Trump's Alleged Affair Is 'Nobody's Business'
 
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thecolorsblend

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Example could be when the US decided, as a part of "isolationism" to stay out of both WW1 and 2 for so long while everyone else was fighting it out.

If we had condemned, and not only that, but joined in immediately, the outcome could have been better than to wait. The majority wanted to stay out until we were hit directly and forced to join.

Instead of a 4 year war (ww1) and a 5 year war (ww2), it could have been considerably less.
America injecting itself into World War I made a bad situation worse and set the stage for World War II. If we had stayed out of it, Germany probably would've won the war and there's no reason to assume that there ever would've been a Third Reich.
 
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Acts2:38

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America injecting itself into World War I made a bad situation worse and set the stage for World War II. If we had stayed out of it, Germany probably would've won the war and there's no reason to assume that there ever would've been a Third Reich.

I already discussed this with someone else who thought (or at least implied) it was the US's fault for Hitler.

I would beg to differ. If we joined the war a lot sooner, the devastation would have been minimized more than what it was. Also, Wilson did approve of the ww1 treaty and helped negotiate the treaty but it was never ratified and the US never joined the league of Nations.

I would hardly blame the US for Hitler. The would be like blaming the US for Communist China when the ww1 treaty gave up German occupied Nationalist China's lands to the Japanese, and sparked off those events.

Wilson was more than happy to see to helping out the negotiations, but the US never joined the league of nations.

So, if the US is to blame, its blame is for their isolationism. They created post-WWI institutions (League of Nations) and several countries were thus (re-)born in Europe from the dismantling of the Russian, German and Austrian empires, but after that the Americans left these countries to fend for themselves.

Your idea was shared by a WWI historian John Schindler, who made that thesis that the US was to blame not allowing a compromise between the Europeans and our overwhelming victory over Germany.

I say that is a bogus thought. Why?

WW1 Germany was in it for the long haul to take land and not give it back. What sort of "compromise" would have there been if they won instead?

None. No compromise. Winner take all. That's why I believe that thought is flawed (US to blame by its intervention)

That thought is also flawed in the fact that Germany, before the US officially entered the ww1 scene, had already sunk or damaged many US trade ships to Britain. We should have entered years before.

If we entered early, damage would have been lower, loss of life lower.
 
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thecolorsblend

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WW1 Germany was in it for the long haul to take land and not give it back. What sort of "compromise" would have there been if they won instead?
Why is that America's problem?
 
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Acts2:38

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Why is that America's problem?

When Germany attacked its trade ships continuously before the US eventually was forced to when Germany officially made declaration to attack US ships entering Britain's seas.

Germany is the one that made the declaration of war basically. Just like WW2, the US had its hand forced to join.

By trying to avoid the problem, the US made its problem worse by not intervening sooner.
 
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thecolorsblend

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When Germany attacked its trade ships continuously before the US eventually was forced to when Germany officially made declaration to attack US ships entering Britain's seas.
Do you want to take another try at that?
 
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Acts2:38

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Do you want to take another try at that?

Sorry, I fail to see any misunderstanding or what you are trying to say here.

I said:
I say that is a bogus thought. Why?

WW1 Germany was in it for the long haul to take land and not give it back. What sort of "compromise" would have there been if they won instead?

None. No compromise. Winner take all. That's why I believe that thought is flawed (US to blame by its intervention)

In which you said:
Why is that America's problem?

I then said:
When Germany attacked its trade ships continuously before the US eventually was forced to when Germany officially made declaration to attack US ships entering Britain's seas.

Germany is the one that made the declaration of war basically. Just like WW2, the US had its hand forced to join.

By trying to avoid the problem, the US made its problem worse by not intervening sooner.

I suppose I could do some sort of "step by step"

Germany = The aggressor

US = Isolationist

US civilian trade ships = Attacked by Germany - either damaged or sunk years before US officially went to war (hand was forced into it war by Germany's official mandate to destroy anything approaching the British sea zones, thereby sinking civilian vessels)

US = notable ship and citizen loses are the SS Housatonic and the RMS Lusitania. One carried passengers and one had cargo of wheat and flour.

Germany = before the Housatonic was sunk they had declared unrestricted warfare. Due to these kind of events, this forced the US's hand in declaring war late into a war that had raged 3 plus years already.

Germany = If they would have left US civilians and ships alone, they US would not have joined the fight.

France = Because the war lasted so long, the damage suffered in Northern Europe was catastrophic. France suffered such a loss that this made the people and the leader Clemencaeu the most vindictive against Germany. Even the British prime minister David George at the time vowed to "Make Germany Pay".

The Allied 3 or "Big 3"= Of the 3 allies that signed the treaty with Germany, 2 were of a vindictive nature (France/Britain). They are the ones (not the US) who truly wanted Germany to suffer. They are the ones, that if anyone is to blame for a Hitler, they would be it. They are the ones that joined the League of Nations also, not the US. The US still wished to remain out of spotlight.

Have you maybe considered that the British and French might be more to blame for Hitler than the US? They both vowed to "make Germany pay", the US didn't make such remarks like that.

If the US had a isolationist policy these days, the world would be much different. Possibly more wars against our allies would result since aggressors would know the US would remain silent. The US couldn't remain silent anymore. Staying out of the fight is more disastrous than intervening. Hence why the US is "world police" as they say now. This stance has probably avoided other "world wars" that would have been more costly.
 
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Basil the Great

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I have followed U.S. Presidential Elections very closely since 1968. Such has been one of my hobbies for 50+ years. I doubt very much that the President can win any of the three Dem states that he carried last time and he could well lose AZ and possibly FL and/or NC.
 
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