WHY IS THERE SO MANY WARNINGS FROM GOD'S WORD ABOUT LOSING SALVATION IF IT IS NOT POSSIBLE??

LoveGodsWord · Jul 24, 2019

Ok gents have to go for now. Will be back latter. I am only up to page 4 so will post more latter. Thanks for the nice discussion.

Blessings for now :wave:

Hazelelponi · Jul 24, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13, CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 and FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4 in the NEW COVENANT are all requirement for salvation. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter the kingdom of Heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-31; ROMANS 8:13

The self serving I'm hungry so I'll go home and apologize, doesn't sound like repentance to me..

Hammster · Jul 24, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
God's Sheep are all those who believe and follow God's WORD. The scriptures teach all those who fall away from the faith and continue in known ubrepentant sin will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. What do you think HEBREWS 6:4-8 means?

You’ve agreed that His sheep hear His voice and follow. So this is obviously describing someone who isn’t His sheep, ie not saved.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 24, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Indeed. By their fruit we shall know them *MATTHEW 7:15-19; GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 2:3-4

However, those who show fruit, but are not born again .. are not Sheep.

Thus this is why it is written on the foundation: God knows those who are His.

sdowney717 · Jul 24, 2019

Hammster said:
You’ve agreed that His sheep hear His voice and follow. So this is obviously describing someone who isn’t His sheep, ie not saved.

I like how the sheep hear first, then they follow. They do not follow and then hear.
Shows who is really in charge of them coming to Christ. God enables them to hear Christ, that is what Christ means by saying those who are of God hear Him speak, and if your not of God, you will not hear and believe.
John 8
45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Christ says the DEAD will hear his voice, and that those who hear Him will live.
A dead man can not hear unless a miracle happens.
So we have no ability within ourselves to hear Him in our fallen natural and dead condition.
John 5
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

Aabbie James · Jul 24, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Who are those that the father gives to Jesus? All those who believe and follow God's Word and endure temptation to the end *JAMES 1:12. Those who fall away and depart the faith and no longer believe and follow God's Word and return back to a life of sin are not in a saved state before God *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Blessings

Jesus says they are His sheep.

John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,

Hazelelponi · Jul 24, 2019

Michael Collum said:
However, those who show fruit, but are not born again .. are not Sheep.

Thus this is why it is written on the foundation: God knows those who are His.

what fruit? Honestly..

I have none. I'll never be as perfect as all these people keep claiming we must be for salvation..

All I have is faith in Him, and His promises, from His Word..

But I'm a normal human being. I get upset sometimes. I cry sometimes. I get angry sometimes. I'm not charitable enough others. I desire comforts in life - I really like my bed. I used to sleep on the floor, but this is nice, which is materialistic.

I'm serious. If it weren't for Jesus saving me, I'd go to hell.

According to most people, I probably will.

Who should I believe? people, or scripture?

I'm going for scripture.

SJP51 · Jul 24, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
It is about enduring in our faith believing and following God's Word to the end that is the point here. The prodigal son, repented and returned back to the father and was accepted (saved) as was the thief on the cross. Those however that continued in known unrepentant sin when their time on earth was over or departed from the faith to follow false teachings that lead them away from God are the ones that are not in a saved state before God while continuing on that path. God is not willing that any should perish. Sadly though many will because they do not choose to believe and follow God's Word *JOHN 3:15-19.

Your reply would seem to indicate that timing of a sinners death controls his destiny. Sin and repent, and hope you don't sin again before you get the chance to repent? Lucky for the prodigal that he repented before died. IMHO, we all sin daily and thus are not always following God's word.

JIMINZ · Jul 24, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Why are there so many warnings from both the old and New Testament scriptures not to depart the faith and fall away from believing and following God's Word and return back to a life of sin?

Where can a definitive list of these Warnings be found?

Gregory Thompson · Jul 25, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
what fruit? Honestly..

I have none. I'll never be as perfect as all these people keep claiming we must be for salvation..

All I have is faith in Him, and His promises, from His Word..

But I'm a normal human being. I get upset sometimes. I cry sometimes. I get angry sometimes. I'm not charitable enough others. I desire comforts in life - I really like my bed. I used to sleep on the floor, but this is nice, which is materialistic.

I'm serious. If it weren't for Jesus saving me, I'd go to hell.

According to most people, I probably will.

Who should I believe? people, or scripture?

I'm going for scripture.

Scripture speaks of fruit that we automatically produce, and progressive character traits that build on one another. Perfection is a matter of maturity, not empirical perfection.

eleos1954 · Jul 25, 2019

JIMINZ said:
Within the Pages of the entire Bible Old and New Testaments, there are things which were written which are TIME and PEOPLE specific.

Not everything found within the Pages of the Bible are Applicable to the Christian, therefore there is a context to be understood when reading.

This is true, there are historical accounts etc. however the principles, precepts, examples of historical outcomes/consequences etc. remain the same there are lessons and teachings in all of them.

Halbhh · Jul 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Not at all. As already shown in the scriptures provided in the OP we are WARNED not to depart the faith because doing so we can lose our salvation. It is only those who endure temptation to the end believing and following God's Word have receive eternal life.

JAMES 1:12 Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

Those who believed and followed God's Word yesterday but have departed the faith to return back to a life of known unrepentant sin today are no longer believers and followers of God's Word *HEBREWS 6:4-8 because they have departed from the faith.

If it was not possible to lose salvation there would not be so many warnings in God's Word to believers showing that we can.

The challenge is to find a way, if there is one, to somehow help those who refuse to listen to all of the Word, having already favored verses they want to make their finished whole doctrine, hear more.

But....I don't know whether it's possible for us to make them hear and listen. It's not only simply that we cannot yell, berate, and such (not simply to avoid the obvious unhelpful ways), but....what wording could we ever do that would even help?

Well, perhaps that best answer is to listen to the tone of how Paul, Peter, John do exactly this!

What is their tone? I'm thinking to review more of that tone in which they exhorted those wanting to continue only in milk to go past milk. The epistles often are Paul, Peter, John, James writing to get people to follow Christ, and not have an empty pretense of following Him. And not all will, as we see in the seven churches addressed later in the book of Revelation. But even here, the messages to the seven churches are messages, meant to cause change.

Rick Otto · Jul 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Salvation is conditional on beleiving and following God's Word to the end...

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

Salvation is from sin and is why the scriptures state it is only those who endure temptation to the end that receive eternal life..

JAMES 1:12 Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

REVELATION 2:26 And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

REVELATION 3:5
He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

REVELATION 3:12 Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write on him macey new name.

REVELATION 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

REVELATION 21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

God bless

If salvation is conditional, it is by merit, not grace, and all may boast of having met conditions, thus saving themselves.

zoidar · Jul 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
God's Sheep are all those who believe and follow God's WORD. The scriptures teach all those who fall away from the faith and continue in known ubrepentant sin will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. What do you think HEBREWS 6:4-8 means?

I believe this is refering to people that are saved, sheep, who because of different reasons turn away from Christ and blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Once being set free from sin and saved, renouncing Christ is like Heb 6 says, like crucifying Christ anew. Why? Because they know the truth (they are partakers of the Holy Spirit and powers of the age to come) and were set free, but renounce it. It's like stabbing Christ in the back, or crucify him anew.

How could an unsaved person fall away and be impossible to renew again? Fall away from what? Renew to what?

LoveGodsWord · Jul 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ God's Sheep are all those who believe and follow God's WORD. The scriptures teach all those who fall away from the faith and continue in known ubrepentant sin will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. What do you think HEBREWS 6:4-8 means?

Your response...

Hammster said:
You’ve agreed that His sheep hear His voice and follow. So this is obviously describing someone who isn’t His sheep, ie not saved.

Well that is not true. Who are we talking about here in HEBREWS 6:4-8; BELIEVERS or UNBELIEVERS? Lets look at the key points in the scriptures posted that describe who there people were...

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Note what the scriptures say. These are God's Word not mine..

1. They were once enlightened; v4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; v4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; v4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; v5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come v5

So reviewing the CONTEXT of these scriptures we don't really need to say much they speak for themselves. These people were BELIEVERS that departed from GOD and became "UNBELIEVERS" returning back to a life of sin. These people being referred to here in this warning are BELIEVERS as shown in the CONTEXT of v4-5 which continues...

[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Yep, BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into sin..

[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Yep thier end is to be burned does not sound like they will be going into God's Kingdom not having any REPENTANCE for sin (v6). These scripture show that a BELIEVER can FALL AWAY back into SIN. Not sure why your having problems here brother to be honest.

Hope this helps

LoveGodsWord · Jul 25, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
The self serving I'm hungry so I'll go home and apologize, doesn't sound like repentance to me..

The point of the parable is that if you were once a believer and God's children and leave God to live a life of sin and change your mind and want to return to God he will accept you with open arms. Of course; REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13, CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 and FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4 in the NEW COVENANT are all requirement for salvation. Salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word.

LoveGodsWord · Jul 25, 2019

Michael Collum said:
However, those who show fruit, but are not born again .. are not Sheep.

Thus this is why it is written on the foundation: God knows those who are His.

We cannot have the fruit of a Christian witout being Born again to love. Salvation is from the inside out. It is only be being born again to LOVE that we can follow Jesus *JOHN 14:15. OBEDIENCE is the very expression of how LOVE is demonstrated through faith. *ROMANS 13:8-10 and God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) are the very definition of what RIGHTOUESNESS is *PSALMS 119:172, and to break any one of God's 10 commandments is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. How can you LOVE GOD and your NEIGHBOR as yourself, if we have no LOVE and break God's Commandments which ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS HANG *MATTHEW 22:36-40?

Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE from the INSIDE OUT we are only like dead mans bones because all we can do without Jesus is SIN because sin starts in the unrenewed heart that has not been born again to love *MATTHEW 5:27-28 and if this is the case all you have is the same rightouesness as the scribes and pharisees and a form of godliness that denies God's power of salvation. This is the counterfeit fruit that is dead mans bones and those who have it will not enter into God's Kingdom *MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 23:25-28.

LoveGodsWord · Jul 25, 2019

Aabbie James said:
Jesus says they are His sheep.
John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,

Who are God's Sheep?

LoveGodsWord · Jul 25, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
what fruit? Honestly..
I have none.

The very first step that all must realise before they can see the power of God's salvation is that we are all sinners and all we can do without Jesus is sin and have no fruit *ROMANS 7. This is why JESUS said to the scribes and pharisees; They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick but they did not know what that means. Jesus went on to say; I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance *MATTHEW 9:12-13. What do you think this means? Also, what do you think GALATIANS 3:22-25 means when linked with MATTHEW 9:12-13. Unless our eyes are opened we cannot see the garden of eden that God has prepared for those who love him. What does this mean? The scribes and pharisees did not know. Do you dear brother? This is the question we must all ask ourselves.

LoveGodsWord · Jul 25, 2019

SJP51 said:
Your reply would seem to indicate that timing of a sinners death controls his destiny. Sin and repent, and hope you don't sin again before you get the chance to repent? Lucky for the prodigal that he repented before died. IMHO, we all sin daily and thus are not always following God's word.

The scripture alone show that it is only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD only in the "present tense" that are God's children. God's salvation is from sin not to continue in it and the true gospel is the power of God unto salvation *ROMANS 1:16; 1 PETER 1:5; JOHN 8:31-36; 2 TIMOTHY 1:7-8; 2 CORINTHIANS 13:4; 2 CORINTHIANS 6:3-7; 2 CORINTHIANS 4:6-7; 1 CORINTHIANS 4:20; 1 CORINTHIANS 2:5; 1 CORINTHIANS 1:18-24. There is a difference between known sin and sins that have not been revealed to us as being sin *JAMES 4:17; ACTS 17:30-31. God's salvation is the operation of God in us to set us free from the power of sin as we have faith in God's Word *JOHN 8:31-36; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

WHY IS THERE SO MANY WARNINGS FROM GOD'S WORD ABOUT LOSING SALVATION IF IT IS NOT POSSIBLE??

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