Prove your case biblically that believers can willfully sin and still be saved while doing so.

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Once you are washed with His blood of ALL YOUR SINS, we are clean “spiritually” forever. Sin dwells in the members of our flesh, not spirit. Actually physically we will die, but spiritually you will not. Spiritual death was defeated on the Cross. So we don't keep putting Him up there again on a daily basis. Our Temple has been cleansed, otherwise the Holy Spirit would not dwell in it. Remember in the Old Testament, a priest who had sin could not enter into the Most Holy Place, he would die. God does not dwell in the presence of sin, so your Temple is clean – it is in your flesh where sin dwells.

However, the words of Paul do not agree with you that the spirit is always clean while the flesh is sinful; For Paul says,

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

Paul says we have to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the spirit, too (and not just the flesh).

Paul also says,

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

Why does Paul need to pray so that the spirit may be preserved blameless if it is as you say?

Jesus says,

19 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man..."
(Matthew 15:19-20).

Christ can dwell in our hearts by faith (Ephesians 3:17).
So if our heart proceeds forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, etc., then how can Christ dwell there? The short answer is that He cannot dwell there. But we need to have the Son in order to have life, though. For he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).

After King David's sin was exposed, he said to GOD,

"Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." (Psalms 51:10).
 
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“… Apart from the law, sin is dead.” Rom. 7:8

What law is Romans 7:8 referring to?

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?" (Romans 7:1).

What "law" existed during that time that people were generally familiar with? The Torah, or the 613 laws contract of the Law of Moses given to Israel.

Again, this is obvious if you were to look again at Romans 3:1.

"What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?" (Romans 3:1).

Circumcision was a part of the Old Testament Law of Moses, and it was not a command given to us by Jesus Christ and his followers. Paul obviously was concerned enough to mention "circumcision" (Which is something we do not generally worry about as a problem today).

Anyways, if you were to skip up to verses in Romans 7, you would read this:

"...we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

The oldness of the letter is the Torah and not the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. It says we are to SERVE in newness of spirit. It does not say we are not to worry about not serving or not sinning because we are saved by having a belief alone on Jesus.

Romans 7:8 is speaking about the time BEFORE the Law of Moses was given. Before the Law of Moses was given, sin (the breaking of God's commands in the Law of Moses) was dead. But that does not mean sin did not exist before the Law of Moses was given. For the whole world was destroyed by a global flood because of men's wickedness. In fact, Peter says the the global flood is an example to all who will live ungodly thereafter (See: 2 Peter 2:5-6).

You said:
Or in other words, we died to sin. We died with Christ, who became sin. From that moment the their earthly Temple was obsolete, but now we have a Temple within us.

Sorry, that is not what Romans 7:8 is saying.

2 Corinthians 5:21 says,
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

Notice the word "might" in there. It says that we MIGHT be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 is merely saying he took on our punishment for sin within our place. But this in no way is saying that future sin is forgiven you.

The true imputation of Jesus Christ can be found in 1 John 1:7 that says if we walk in the light, as He (Christ) is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light is loving your brother (See: 1 John 2:9-11). Hebrews 5:9 is another testimony in Scripture that confirms this truth. Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who will OBEY Him. So we have obey as a part of eternal life. It's not an option.
 
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nolidad

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IMPORTANT NOTE:

"Please read the thread rules below so as to participate properly in this thread topic."

Prove your case biblically that believers can willfully sin and still be saved while doing so.

Popular Christianity teaches that Christians can abide in unconfessed sin and still be saved while committing such sin (on some level) by having a belief alone on Jesus. It is my challenge to those who believe this way to put forth verses and or passages that lead you to believe this kind of belief.

Rules for Participating in the Thread Topic:

Rule #1:

Please no copying of any websites to make your case biblically. Please read the Bible yourself and post your own verses to prove your case.

Rule #2.

Please keep in mind that I am allowed to critique a person's statements on their view of Soteriology, and I will allow some debate, but a person has to first put forth their case with the Bible for why they think they can willfully commit sin and be saved while doing so (before they can offer any kind of debate).

Rule #3.

Please no posting of just one or two verses. Please provide at least 10 or more verses to show that a believer can intentionally set out to sin again with the thinking they are saved while doing so.

Rule #4.

Please provide Scripture references; Both the chapter number, and verse numbers. No mention of just a book of the Bible in general, or a quote of Scripture without any kind of verse number involved. Any post without a verse number will be skipped over based on the assumption that you did not reference Scripture. I will not make time to read the musings of men's opinions to see if you are referring to Scripture or not. I need to see actual verses numbers please.

Rule #5.

Please, do no debate, discuss, or ask questions until you provided at least 10 verses to prove your case biblically that a believer can sin and still be saved.

Thank you.


Rom. 7: 20

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(Sanctified present passive participle- meaning someone is acting on the person and it shoud read being sanctified)

Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1 John 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins areforgiven you for his name's sake.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Romans 8:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

JOhn 10:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 6:37 King James Version (KJV)
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.




John 6:44 King James Version (KJV)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 3:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Lamentations 3:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

Many more if needed!



 
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Rom. 7: 20

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(Sanctified present passive participle- meaning someone is acting on the person and it shoud read being sanctified)

Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1 John 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins areforgiven you for his name's sake.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Romans 8:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

JOhn 10:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 6:37 King James Version (KJV)
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.




John 6:44 King James Version (KJV)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 3:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Lamentations 3:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

Many more if needed!



Once I am done addressing the other person’s verses, I will give reply to the verses you presented. I am not sure when that will be (seeing I am busy at work, etc.). So please be patient for my reply.

Blessings to you in the Lord.
 
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Ronald

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Well, nationally speaking: The Jews never believed in Jesus as their Messiah. So they don't qualify in being like me in the sense that I actually do believe we are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Of course, I am not going to boast against the original branches because I know the Jews (as a nation) will come to see one day that Jesus is Lord (before he shortly returns).
Most Jews today don't believe, but many believed in Jesus back then before and after His death - tens of thousands. In Acts 15, Peter rebuked the Judaizers (Jews who excepted Christ but still held to the Law).

But how many times are gifts received? Do you keep receiving the same gift over and over and over again? Or do you receive gifts one time? I say this because if a gift is received one time, then that means that Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about a one time event (i.e. Initial Salvation).
The gift of salvation is asked for and received once.

Ephesians 2:9 is also talking about "Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism" (Without God's grace through faith in Jesus) because it is referring to the kind of work that a person would boast in themselves in doing. Is that what you think I believe? That I boast in my own good works and seek the attention of men?
No it's not, even the Israelites prior to Jesus had faith, Abraham had faith and was justified by faith. A man directed works alone foreign to the God of the Bible would be any other religion.

"Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." Gal. 2:16
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

A conviction, a certainty, a hope of things promised could not be if we could lose our salvation. And what you are implying is that we can lose it. Those who fall away, never had it to begin with. It was taught in the Parable of the Sower - only the seed that was planted in fertile soil grows to produce fruit. The rest don't.


I believe God does the good work through the believer (Philippians 2:12) (John 15:5).
Absolutely. Do you believe that God does the cleansing and it is a one time cleansing?
We cannot cleanse ourselves. We can avoid the dirt and remove it, mortify it, but we cannot cleanse our spirit, God alone does that. We must participate and it is an ongoing battle between the spirit and the flesh.

Ephesians 2:10 switches gears and talks about a different kind of work (i.e. God directed works done through the believer or Sanctification). For verse 10 mentions that these are the kind of works that a believer is created to do in Christ Jesus since the foundation of the world. These are the kind of works that follow God's saving grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Agreed

Jesus said to the believer who did wonderful works to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity (or sin) (See: Matthew 7:23). So a sin and still be saved type belief is not the kind of faith that Jesus will accept come Judgment Day, my friend. For a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
It's important to read the context, a few verses prior to Matt. 7:23. People often misunderstand this verse, as if Jesus is speaking to believers.
NO, you have that wrong. Jesus was not speaking about believers in Him, Jesus was speaking about "... false prophets who come in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves" ... "thus you will recognize them by their fruits." Matthew 7: 15 & 26
Jesus doesn't lie and contradict Himself. He says believe in me and you will be saved. When He says, "Away from me ... I never knew you"; that means He never had a relationship with them - hence, THEY WERE NOT BORN AGAIN. These false prophets did not, they used his name for whatever works they were attempting. There are tares in the folk that manipulate others, lead them away, distort the truth for their own purposes. They could be pastors of churches, a gay pastor, who says to Jesus, didn't I do this and that, when He was never really born again. Jim Jones might say that too or David Koresh, " Lord, Lord, didn't I do this or that."
 
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Ronald

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What law is Romans 7:8 referring to?
The Ten Commandments is how we know what sin is. The Law was expanded for the Jews to include 613. But the Law for the world to see and understand what sin is, is specifically the Ten Commandments. Context again shows us what this verse is speaking about. Romans 7:3 - adultery. Romans 7:7 says, " ... If it had not been for the Law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet."
2 Corinthians 5:21 says,
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

Notice the word "might" in there. It says that we MIGHT be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 is merely saying he took on our punishment for sin within our place. But this in no way is saying that future sin is forgiven you.


NO. Christ died for past, present and future sins. This is where you are getting tripped up. The "might" is the same as "whosoever" believes. It is a message to ALL humans. Not all will be saved, not all will be made righteous.

The true imputation of Jesus Christ can be found in 1 John 1:7 that says if we walk in the light, as He (Christ) is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light is loving your brother (See: 1 John 2:9-11). Hebrews 5:9 is another testimony in Scripture that confirms this truth. Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who will OBEY Him. So we have obey as a part of eternal life. It's not an option.

Jesus is simply saying if you walk in the light, you'll be saved. He is the Light. We are in Christ, which means we are walking in the Light. The context prior to this is stating that "God is Light and in Him is no darkness".(1 John1:5)
So walking in the Light is loving your brother. We are abiding in him, loving one another, doing the works which God prepared for us to do. And obedience is expected of His children. We cooperate with the plan - but sin that dwells in our flesh cannot separate us from God once we are born again. It's a done deal.
 
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The Ten Commandments is how we know what sin is. The Law was expanded for the Jews to include 613. But the Law for the world to see and understand what sin is, is specifically the Ten Commandments. Context again shows us what this verse is speaking about.

No. 1 John 3:4 says sin is transgression of the Law. All of God's laws of the Torah (i.e. the 613) are laws that can be broken (Which is sin). Are you saying laws like inappropriate behavior with animals mentioned in the Torah do not apply to those outside of Israel? Surely not. So it is not just the Ten. There is no text that says that Paul is ONLY referring to the ten when He speaks of the Old Law or the Torah.

Paul brings up circumcision in Romans 3:1 (Which is also the context), too. So no. It is not just the 10 that were a part of the Law of Moses. If an Israelite did not become circumcised, they were to have broken God's covenant (Which is obviously sin).

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).

But that is Old Covenant, and not New Covenant. For Paul says,

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).

Romans 7:3 - adultery. Romans 7:7 says, " ... If it had not been for the Law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet."

In Romans 7:1-6, Paul is telling Messianic Christians (i.e. those brethren who know Old Testament Law - Romans 7:1) that the Old Law is dead and that they should serve in newness of Spirit (i.e. the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed) and not in oldness of the letter (i.e. the Torah, etc.). This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. This lines up with the temple veil being torn from top to bottom when Christ died (Which started the New Covenant officially). The Old Testament Laws on animal sacrifices was no longer in effect anymore and Jesus Christ was now our passover Lamb or perfect sacrifice. Hence, why Romans 7:2 says, "if the husband [i.e. Jesus] be dead, she [i.e. the body of believers] is loosed from the law [i.e. the Old Law] of her husband."

In Romans 7:7-13, Paul is recounting Israelite history and speaking as a Jew throughout time with the coming in of the Law of Moses and what that was like.

In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is recounting his experience as a Pharisee before he became a Christian. Paul (Saul) is describing his experience of what it is like to struggle in keeping the Old Covenant Law that did not include Jesus Christ.

It is true that the use of first-person present verbs in the passage (“I am” “I practice” “I want” “I hate” “I do”) sounds like Paul is talking about his present experience. But Paul sometimes uses “I” in a rhetorical sense to describe generic experience rather than his own present experience (1 Corinthians 10:30; 1 Corinthians 13:2-3, 1 Corinthians 13:11). In at least one other place, Paul uses a first-person present verb to describe his opponents’ experience (Galatians 2:18).

Romans 7:25 is a verse that transitions back to the present day reality as Paul being a Christian. He is thankful that he now has victory in Jesus Christ His Lord who can deliver him from his body of death (Which was a problem before). Otherwise why is Paul thanking Jesus?

Paul asks the question in verse 24.

Who shall deliver me from this body of death?

I like how the Good News Translation answers this question. It says,

"Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin." (Romans 7:25 GNT).

The NTE says,

"...So then, left to my own self I am enslaved to God’s law with my mind, but to sin’s law with my human flesh." (Romans 7:25 NTE).

But Romans 13:14 says,
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."
 
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SkyWriting

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IMPORTANT NOTE:

"Please read the thread rules....

Sure, sure.


People are born into a sin condition just as a fish is born into water.
None are dry, no not one.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Psalm 53
The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, doing abominable iniquity; there is none who does good. God looks down from heaven on the children of man to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all fallen away; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.

Job 15:14
What is man, that he can be pure? Or he who is born of a woman, that he can be righteous?

1 John 1
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Job 25
4 How then can man be in the right before God? How can he who is born of woman be pure?

Job 14
4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.

Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
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Ronald

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No. 1 John 3:4 says sin is transgression of the Law. All of God's laws of the Torah (i.e. the 613) are laws that can be broken (Which is sin). Are you saying laws like inappropriate behavior with animals mentioned in the Torah do not apply to those outside of Israel? Surely not. So it is not just the Ten. There is no text that says that Paul is ONLY referring to the ten when He speaks of the Old Law or the Torah.

Paul brings up circumcision in Romans 3:1 (Which is also the context), too. So no. It is not just the 10 that were a part of the Law of Moses. If an Israelite did not become circumcised, they were to have broken God's covenant (Which is obviously sin).

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).

But that is Old Covenant, and not New Covenant. For Paul says,

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).



In Romans 7:1-6, Paul is telling Messianic Christians (i.e. those brethren who know Old Testament Law - Romans 7:1) that the Old Law is dead and that they should serve in newness of Spirit (i.e. the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed) and not in oldness of the letter (i.e. the Torah, etc.). This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. This lines up with the temple veil being torn from top to bottom when Christ died (Which started the New Covenant officially). The Old Testament Laws on animal sacrifices was no longer in effect anymore and Jesus Christ was now our passover Lamb or perfect sacrifice. Hence, why Romans 7:2 says, "if the husband [i.e. Jesus] be dead, she [i.e. the body of believers] is loosed from the law [i.e. the Old Law] of her husband."

In Romans 7:7-13, Paul is recounting Israelite history and speaking as a Jew throughout time with the coming in of the Law of Moses and what that was like.

In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is recounting his experience as a Pharisee before he became a Christian. Paul (Saul) is describing his experience of what it is like to struggle in keeping the Old Covenant Law that did not include Jesus Christ.

It is true that the use of first-person present verbs in the passage (“I am” “I practice” “I want” “I hate” “I do”) sounds like Paul is talking about his present experience. But Paul sometimes uses “I” in a rhetorical sense to describe generic experience rather than his own present experience (1 Corinthians 10:30; 1 Corinthians 13:2-3, 1 Corinthians 13:11). In at least one other place, Paul uses a first-person present verb to describe his opponents’ experience (Galatians 2:18).

Romans 7:25 is a verse that transitions back to the present day reality as Paul being a Christian. He is thankful that he now has victory in Jesus Christ His Lord who can deliver him from his body of death (Which was a problem before). Otherwise why is Paul thanking Jesus?

Paul asks the question in verse 24.

Who shall deliver me from this body of death?

I like how the Good News Translation answers this question. It says,

"Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin." (Romans 7:25 GNT).

The NTE says,

"...So then, left to my own self I am enslaved to God’s law with my mind, but to sin’s law with my human flesh." (Romans 7:25 NTE).

But Romans 13:14 says,
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."
Whether 10 or 613 laws, we are not under them. The laws of sin and death have been conquered, fulfilled for us. Those who have been born again are in Christ. In Christ there is no sin. Our flesh has sin, but OUR FLESH IS NOT IN CHRIST. Because we have this dual nature that is in opposition, we must make a conscious effort daily to keep our bodies and souls clean and to avoid temptations and from falling back into our old ways.
BUT Our spirits have been cleansed for all time. Jesus died for all of them, otherwise AS YOU MAY BELIEVE, WE CAN LOSE OUR SALVATION. And so what, are we still slaves to sin? Aren't we free, or were we just temporarily forgiven and must continuously ask for forgiveness 24/7??? Are you implying the Body of Christ is riddled with sin? Maybe you are not realizing that your spirit right now is pure, so that if you died suddenly, you would go directly to Jesus. I guess you can't conceive that Jesus washed you completely? Do you think he has to give a bath daily??? We were sanctified spiritually in an instant. After that, He helps us to keep our flesh under control. So gradually as we grow mature, the old ways fade and as our minds become more aware of sin, we cooperate with God as He transforms us into the likeness of His Son.
We have a relationship with Him. We can hope for our redemption faithfully because He promised us eternal LIFE. We are SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. Do you realized what sealed means??? No one, not even yourself can break that seal. He would not seal someone and then change His mind - that would contradict His omniscience. HE KNOWS THE FUTURE. He will NOT someday say to believers, "Away from me, I dont know you." He will say that to false prophets/unbelievers.
Listen, scripture supports itself, it is the reader who interprets it differently sometimes. This faith plus works salvation has been argued over for centuries. It's LEGALISM and that is destructive, because as the Bible claims, if you li e under the law, you will be judged by it.
Do you think the soul and the spirit is the same? It's not. Because the word is sharper than a two-edged sword ... able to divide soul and spirit.
It is a difficult concept to get your head around. The soul and spirit are so integrated along with our flesh that we just see one when we look in the mirror. GOD dwells in your spiritual Temple, that is separate from your soul and fleshly self. Your pure self will pass on when you dieeaving your fleshly self (ahere sin dwells) behind - unless you are resurrected while alive (could happen in our generation).
We are saved! It's not maybe or if I do this or don't so that ... OUR SALVATION IS SECURE, SIGNED, SEALED DELIVERED.
 
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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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To all:

Before I give any further replies to anything new posted in this thread, I need to go back and address the older posts that have a lot of verses in them. This is going to take some time, especially seeing I am working over the next couple of days. For now, I am replying to posts that I can give shorter replies in the time that I have in other threads. But I ask for folks here to please be patient as I hope (Lord willing) to reply to the verses presented here that folks think defends a sin and still be saved type doctrine.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I loaded a handy new app onto my phone that tracks whether I'm saved throughout the day. Today I was saved from 6:10 am to 9:53 am, then again from 1:17 pm to 3:04 pm, ...

You're doing much better than me it would seem.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Resha Caner

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You're doing much better than me it would seem.

You should try the app. When you backslide it gives you a little shock. It also provides a handy list of self-flagellation items you can buy on Amazon to keep yourself holy.
 
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parousia70

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Haven't read the whole thread but I'd say it's summed up here:

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
Romans 5:13
13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Before the Law was Given, Adam's Sin was imputed unto all, and as such Death reigned over all, regardless of whether or not people sinned...ALL were condemned... even if you did not sin, Death reigned over you.

Then The Law was given and gave indivudal's sins the strength to condemn them.

Now that Christ has fulfilled the law, there are two realities:
1) You are either IN ADAM, condemned whether you sin or not (as it was before the law)

OR

2)You are IN CHRIST, saved even though you sin.

Our Sins re no longer the measuring stick God uses to determine our salvation status.

Sin is now powerless to prevent anyone from Salvation.

In fact, ONLY sinners get saved.
 
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nolidad

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Once I am done addressing the other person’s verses, I will give reply to the verses you presented. I am not sure when that will be (seeing I am busy at work, etc.). So please be patient for my reply.

Blessings to you in the Lord.


I fully appreciate and understand time constraints. Till you can Be blessed.
 
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