Are you saved or delusional?

MasterYourLife said:

I'm saying you can feel as though you've had a conversion and heart/life change, even though you haven't truly.

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so are you saying you know how to be truly saved then? can you tell me?

ps-Im going to bed now, foxy, thanks for the good thread. see ya tomorrow

MasterYourLife said:

I will let Jesus answer your question.

Not everyone enters heaven, but only "he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter".

What's the will of the Father?

Well let's look at what Jesus said throughout his time on earth, over and over again.
"I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me."

Therefore... everything Jesus did was the will of the Father.
Thus... we must do everything Jesus did.

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Fail, you didn't answer the question.

MasterYourLife said:

When asking the question, "how do I know if I'm saved".
The typical answers are: you show fruits of the Spirit, you stop practicing sin, you want to grow spiritually, etc.

However, 99% of these signs of being born-again, are possible while unsaved.

Some people are wired psychologically to be obedient. This makes it difficult to distinguish from:
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because God said to obey"
and
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because that is the effect of being saved"
(Keeping in mind, both of these people took genuine steps to become saved.)

Distinguishing is almost impossible. Especially for a strict law keeper who perhaps sins even less than a truly saved person.

What can be said for these people?
Are the tares sitting in your own church unknowingly destined for hell?

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What if I told you, there is someone who knows they are going to die for the Lord and they know how and they know when?

Would you still question their salvation? Why?

What scripture do you think they have to recite, to please those in Heaven? Remember that Jesus said "up to the point that you believe (John providing the way in to believe), heaven is taken by force"?

MasterYourLife said:

I'm not questioning anyone's salvation except my own.

I'm saying there are people who can't tell if they're saved. Because their evidence of transformation is equal to someone who is truly saved.

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Jesus said, when a sinner repents, Heaven rejoices.

All you need to do, is remember how Heaven rejoiced over you, if you believe.

The Day I repented of my sins, Heaven rejoiced that I had heart-righteousness - that is unique to me, from that Day forth I was sealed by the Holy Spirit, for the Day of Redemption (I have struggled with my Salvation almost all the time I have been saved and this is what Jesus concluded would give me strength (through the Holy Spirit)).

I think it might be a little bit risky to try to figure this out.

MasterYourLife said:

When asking the question, "how do I know if I'm saved".
The typical answers are: you show fruits of the Spirit, you stop practicing sin, you want to grow spiritually, etc.

However, 99% of these signs of being born-again, are possible while unsaved.

Some people are wired psychologically to be obedient. This makes it difficult to distinguish from:
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because God said to obey"
and
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because that is the effect of being saved"
(Keeping in mind, both of these people took genuine steps to become saved.)

Distinguishing is almost impossible. Especially for a strict law keeper who perhaps sins even less than a truly saved person.

What can be said for these people?
Are the tares sitting in your own church unknowingly destined for hell?

Click to expand...

Wonderful and compelling OP. I mean that.

Now let me spin this on its head and provide the following sobering passage:

Romans 8: NASB

1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did:sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

MasterYourLife said:

When asking the question, "how do I know if I'm saved".
The typical answers are: you show fruits of the Spirit, you stop practicing sin, you want to grow spiritually, etc.

However, 99% of these signs of being born-again, are possible while unsaved.

Some people are wired psychologically to be obedient. This makes it difficult to distinguish from:
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because God said to obey"
and
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because that is the effect of being saved"
(Keeping in mind, both of these people took genuine steps to become saved.)

Distinguishing is almost impossible. Especially for a strict law keeper who perhaps sins even less than a truly saved person.

What can be said for these people?
Are the tares sitting in your own church unknowingly destined for hell?

Click to expand...

Christ tells us if we remain in the vine we will bear much fruit. Too often people draw a line from this fruit over to Galatians fruits of the spirit and leave it at that seeking only behaviour changes. Bearing fruit is inclusive of the fruit of the spirit but it is more than the fruit of the spirit. Fruit has a looking good and tasting good quality but it also has a multiplying quality as well. We shouldn't stop at the behaviour changes to confirm we have fruit because if the fruit is steril then it's not good fruit.

Well,

What does the Bible say?

MasterYourLife said:

When asking the question, "how do I know if I'm saved".
The typical answers are: you show fruits of the Spirit, you stop practicing sin, you want to grow spiritually, etc.

However, 99% of these signs of being born-again, are possible while unsaved.

Some people are wired psychologically to be obedient. This makes it difficult to distinguish from:
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because God said to obey"
and
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because that is the effect of being saved"
(Keeping in mind, both of these people took genuine steps to become saved.)

Distinguishing is almost impossible. Especially for a strict law keeper who perhaps sins even less than a truly saved person.

What can be said for these people?
Are the tares sitting in your own church unknowingly destined for hell?

Click to expand...

Am I born again, or has God sent me a strong delusion so I'd believe a lie? hmmm, this is a good question.

I'll take this opportunity for self examination.

Blessings.

I can tell who is saved by a short conversation. I can usually tell who is saved on these forums too.

Unfortunately, the rules prevent me from doing so.

MasterYourLife said:

When asking the question, "how do I know if I'm saved".
The typical answers are: you show fruits of the Spirit, you stop practicing sin, you want to grow spiritually, etc.

However, 99% of these signs of being born-again, are possible while unsaved.

Click to expand...

No.
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace etc. These are the qualities that being filled with the Holy Spirit produces. Because they are from the Spirit, the love will be divine, or Agape, love, Joy will be the joy of the Lord, peace will be the peace which Jesus gave us; his own peace, not as the world gives. It is not possible for someone to have, and show, divine love, peace, patience, self control etc without having his Holy Spirit.

As for stopping practising sin; there are many people who are, what the world would call, good people - they give to charity, have never been arrested and don't do evil, maybe don't even have any bad habits. They are still sinners, and if they have rejected God, they are living apart from him, without his forgiveness and reconciliation.

MasterYourLife said:

Some people are wired psychologically to be obedient. This makes it difficult to distinguish from:
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because God said to obey"
and
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because that is the effect of being saved"
(Keeping in mind, both of these people took genuine steps to become saved.)

Click to expand...

??
If we were all "programmed" to obey God, Adam and Eve would never have sinned. In fact, sin would be, and have been, impossible because we were made to only obey God.

MasterYourLife said:

Distinguishing is almost impossible.

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That's why it's not our place to judge. Only God knows the heart, and motives, of other people - we should judge only ourselves.

MasterYourLife said:

Are the tares sitting in your own church unknowingly destined for hell?

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There certainly may be people who are sitting in church thinking that church + good deeds is enough to save and "get them to heaven".
Whether that is a result of bad teaching, or that they simply can't accept/hear that their own ideas are wrong; it's hard to say.

MasterYourLife said:

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter." Matthew 7:21

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God's will is that we believe in Jesus, accept him and have eternal life, John 6:40.
We can, and will, know whether we have done that. The NT has many verses on assurance; in his letter, John often said "I write this so that you will KNOW .....".

very good thread. .just throwing in a verse. it seems that God is talking to someone who thinks He owes them something...

Psalm 50:16
But to the wicked God says: “What right have you to recite my statutes, or take my covenant on your lips?

MasterYourLife said:

When asking the question, "how do I know if I'm saved".
The typical answers are: you show fruits of the Spirit, you stop practicing sin, you want to grow spiritually, etc.

However, 99% of these signs of being born-again, are possible while unsaved.

Some people are wired psychologically to be obedient. This makes it difficult to distinguish from:
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because God said to obey"
and
"I'm saved and don't practice sin -- because that is the effect of being saved"
(Keeping in mind, both of these people took genuine steps to become saved.)

Distinguishing is almost impossible. Especially for a strict law keeper who perhaps sins even less than a truly saved person.

What can be said for these people?
Are the tares sitting in your own church unknowingly destined for hell?

Click to expand...

I have come to understand in my own walk everything is about Jesus. And that is literal, not just a knee jerk religious response. When referring to deceivers and the spirit of Antichrist we are instructed to test the spirits.

1 John 4:1-6
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Those who cannot confess Jesus are not saved.

'I believe in Jesus'... Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Definition of believe
1: to consider to be true or honest
b: to accept the word or evidence of
2: to hold as an opinion

without confession, to 'believe' in Jesus, is to hold to an opinion you consider to be true, based upon evidence.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Definition of confess
1: to tell or make known
2: to acknowledge
3: to declare faith in or adherence to

So a confession is a declaration of faith that acknowledges your adherence to Jesus. Being contrite. You cannot confesses Jesus without accepting him as Lord, savior etc. This is why no one who is lost can confess him. For a lost person to confess Jesus, they had to come to the saving knowledge of Jesus in order to understand they need to confess him in the first place.

I watch out for those who only refer to, or imply Jesus. Or use other names.

ACTS 4:10-12
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Examples that Que me in:

'In the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit'.
ME: OK, what name is that?

'In his blessed name'.
ME: Who is his? Because I do not reconise God by the name of 'his'...

Romans 8 said:

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

One knows he/she is saved because it says so in the bible.

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Declaration of Christ as Lord is declaration that you follow your Lord's commandments. Lord is a position of authority. To claim Christ is Lord is to say you are in obedience. Also key is you "will" be saved, not you are saved. It is an active daily command.

I believe this question is designed to look at ones self and judge for your self .the bible says work out your on salvation with fear and trimble. The bible is plain on how to be saved .just believe in your heart and confess with you mouth that Jesus is lord and you will be saved ..the key words is believe in your heart.what do we believe? Do you believe you need a savior? A savior from what? The deeds of the flesh that torments us all? The fear of dying? Sin? If you can answer these questions dig deep because these are questions of the heart thin a person will no they need jesus and they are saved.