WHY IS THERE SO MANY WARNINGS FROM GOD'S WORD ABOUT LOSING SALVATION IF IT IS NOT POSSIBLE??

Hammster

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You've already acknowledged that some who think they're elected can turn out not to be. Just as some apparently thought they were sheep in Matt 25 while being goats instead. And vice versa.
That didn’t address my post. It didn’t answer the questions.

In John 10 He says He’s the Good Shepherd. He knows His sheep. His sheep know Him. If He lets one get away, He’s not only not a Good Shepherd, but not really a Shepherd at all.
 
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fhansen

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That didn’t address my post. It didn’t answer the questions.

In John 10 He says He’s the Good Shepherd. He knows His sheep. His sheep know Him. If He lets one get away, He’s not only not a Good Shepherd, but not really a Shepherd at all.
It did answer the question. We have to be one of His sheep. You're assuming that everyone who ever heard that verse and applied it to themselves is necessarily numbered among the elect
 
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Hammster

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It did answer the question. We have to be one of His sheep.
It addressed what happens to a stray sheep. If you say that it is allowed to walk away, then you don’t have a Good Shepherd.
 
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eleos1954

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Then you are ignoring context.

So .... did Jesus take things out of context by referencing OT scriptures that were taught to the Jews? and if so .... were they ... are they only applicable to the Jews?

Jesus taught from the OT and so did the apostles

It (complete bible) all fits together and the teachings are for all mankind and always have been.

As time played out ... more light was given ... and even today ... more light is being given

Here's a few
BiblePgs

The "Jews only" mindset of Israel in the OT was exactly why the Gospel went to the gentiles. The Gospel was to be preached to the Jews first, but when they refused Him (His teachings) then the light was given to the gentiles as was prophesied.

“Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.”—Genesis 18:18 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.”

—Isaiah 42:6-7“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring My salvation to the ends of the earth.” —Isaiah 49:6


and the NT is clear ....

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

He's the same in the OT and in the NT
 
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Hammster

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So .... did Jesus take things out of context by referencing OT scriptures that were taught to the Jews? and if so .... were they ... are they only applicable to the Jews?

Jesus taught from the OT and so did the apostles

It (complete bible) all fits together and the teachings are for all mankind and always have been.

As time played out ... more light was given ... and even today ... more light is being given

Here's a few
BiblePgs

The "Jews only" mindset of Israel in the OT was exactly why the Gospel went to the gentiles. The Gospel was to be preached to the Jews first, but when they refused Him (His teachings) then the light was given to the gentiles as was prophesied.

“Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.”—Genesis 18:18 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.”

—Isaiah 42:6-7“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring My salvation to the ends of the earth.” —Isaiah 49:6


and the NT is clear ....

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

He's the same in the OT and in the NT
I tried to show you that ignoring the context would give you an incorrect understanding. That’s all.
 
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Basil the Great

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As my late elderly Jewish friend used to tell me, "Believe what you want." The bottom line is that you can make a case either way. However, as I often say, it seems best to err on the side of caution and assume that it might be possible to lose one's salvation. Thus, we can only hope that such a premise might cause all of us to be more careful.
 
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JIMINZ

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So .... did Jesus take things out of context by referencing OT scriptures that were taught to the Jews? and if so .... were they ... are they only applicable to the Jews?

Jesus taught from the OT and so did the apostles

It (complete bible) all fits together and the teachings are for all mankind and always have been.

As time played out ... more light was given ... and even today ... more light is being given

Here's a few
BiblePgs

The "Jews only" mindset of Israel in the OT was exactly why the Gospel went to the gentiles. The Gospel was to be preached to the Jews first, but when they refused Him (His teachings) then the light was given to the gentiles as was prophesied.

“Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.”—Genesis 18:18 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.”

—Isaiah 42:6-7“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring My salvation to the ends of the earth.” —Isaiah 49:6


and the NT is clear ....

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

He's the same in the OT and in the NT

Within the Pages of the entire Bible Old and New Testaments, there are things which were written which are TIME and PEOPLE specific.

Not everything found within the Pages of the Bible are Applicable to the Christian, therefore there is a context to be understood when reading.
 
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Hammster

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As my late elderly Jewish friend used to tell me, "Believe what you want." The bottom line is that you can make a case either way. However, as I often say, it seems best to err on the side of caution and assume that it might be possible to lose one's salvation. Thus, we can only hope that such a premise might cause all of us to be more careful.
I can’t say that maybe God wasn’t serious about His promises. I just can’t.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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...and never saved, according to Jesus.

Your confused. We are only in a saved state with God by believing and following God's Word always in the "present tense". If you believe and follow God's Word in the present tense then at that very moment in time if you believe God's Word then we have the assurance of God's forgiveness. God's forgiveness however is conditional on repentance *ACTS 2:38 confession *1 JOHN 1:9 and faith in God's Word *JOHN 3:14-19. Salvation is conditional on BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word and enduring temptation to sin to the end *JAMES 1:12; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; JOHN 8:31-32; 1 JOHN 1:7; 1 JOHN 2:24; ROMANS 6:22

JESUS knowing the end from the beginning knows those who will believe and follow him to the end. JESUS says by their fruit you shall know them *MATTHEW 7:16

HEBREWS 3:13-14 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. FOR WE ARE MADE PARTAKERS OF CHRIST IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEADFAST UNTO THE END.

Sin separates us from God *ISAIAH 59:2; PROVERBS 28:9-13. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son crucifying Jesus afresh and putting him to open shame *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-31; HEBREWS 6:4-8.

Those who say they know God while living a life of sin are lying and the truth is not in them.

JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If we believed and followed God's Word yesterday but today turn back to a life of known unrepentant sin we are not in a saved state before God and if we continue in known unrepentant sin we will be lost which is the reason there is so many warnings in God's Word not to depart the faith and return to a life of sin * 2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; HEBREWS 10:23-31; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23;HEBREWS 10:23-27

EZEKIEL 18:4 [4], Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.

Sin (breaking any one of God's 10 Commandments) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:3-10.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes it is.. Jesus says none of those God gives into His Hand will be lost, but will be raised up at the last Day.

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day." John 6:39

I'm seeing no ambiguity here.

Not really. Who are the ones that God gives into the hands of Jesus? Do you know? If not what is the point your trying to make here?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hi Michael, nice to see you. Some comments for consideration below.
I tend to say "Born again" instead of saved, that way it's less like a hall pass, and more like an actual change of person.
1) No, it would be the bad news if that were the case. Those who are born again remain born again, they do no go back to being unborn again.

Where does it say in the scriptures someone that someone that is born again cannot return to a life of sin? Born again is a metaphore to a new life in the Spirit living and working through us. If we grieve God's Spirit and it departs from us *EPHESIANS 4:30; 1 THESSAOLONIANS 5:19 then we are living in the flesh (old man and sin). We need to walk in the Spirit not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh *GALATIANS 5:16. Without JESUS we can do nothing *JOHN 15:5. The scriptures teach all through the OLD and NEW Testament that if we return to a life of sin we can indeed lose salvation

MATTHEW 7:21-23 [21], NOT EVERYONE THAT SAYS TO ME LORD. LORD SHALL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BUT HE THAT DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. [22],Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? [23], And THEN I WILL PROFESS TO THEM, I NEVER KNEW YOU DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO WORK INIQUITY (sin).

The scriptures here are the words of JESUS that say those who work sin will not enter into God's Kingdom and the reason they did not enter into God's KINGDOM was because they made an occupation (practice) of working sin. These are the words of JESUS brother they are not mine.

We can link also link v23 on NOT KNOWING God to 1 JOHN 2:3-4. How do we know if we KNOW God?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Keeping God's Commandments is linked here to KNOWING God. Keeping Gods Commandments is the opposite of sin which is breaking them *1 JOHN 3:4. God's saints are also described as KEEPING the commandments of God *REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.

This also links and agrees to 1 JOHN 3:6 [6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.

Now notice in MATTHEW 7:21-23 the reason those people were not allowed into the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN was because they were practicing SIN and by practicing SIN did not KNOW GOD. Here JOHN in 1 JOHN 2:3-4 and repeated in 1 JOHN 3:6 is saying the same thing those who practice SIN (break anyone of God's 10 commandments; 1 JOHN 3:4) do not KNOW God. This is the difference between the Children of God and the Children of the Devil *1 JOHN 3:3-10. Those who are BORN AGAIN to KNOW God do not practice sin *1 JOHN 3:9. According to JESUS if we CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN we do not KNOW God and will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *MATTHEW 7:21-23.

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Who are we talking about here; BELIEVERS of UNBELIEVERS? Were these BELIEVERS Born again christians

1. Having been enlightened v4;
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift v4;
3. Having been made partakers of the Holy Ghost v5;
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God v4;
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come v5

[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Yep, BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into sin..

[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Yep thier end is to be burned does not sound like they will be going into God's Kingdom not having any REPENTANCE for sin (v6).

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Yep seems like those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are God's Adversaries who will receive the judgments of God. Do you think these people will enter into God's Kingdom?

1 JOHN 3:3-10 [3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure. [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. [6], Whoever abides in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him. [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Note the key sections above and the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil. According to JESUS the Children of the Devil will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven *MATTHEW 7:21-23. So what is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil?

THE CHILDREN OF GOD IN 1 JOHN 3:3-10?

1. Purify themselves as JESUS is pure v3 - BLESSED are the PURE in HEART for they shall see God *MATTHEW 5:8
2. SIN is breaking anyone of God's Commandments they do not practice breaking it v4
3. They ABIDE in CHRIST (the Word) and SIN NOT v6
4. They are not deceived and do RIGHTOUESNESS even as JESUS is RIGHTEOUS and by doing so are RIGHTESOUS (the fruit of faith and walking in the Spirit) v7 *GALATIANS 5:16
5. They are BORN OF GOD and do not practice sin v9
6. They do not practice sin because God's WORD (the seed *LUKE 8:11) remains in them v9
7. They do righteousness because God works in them because they have FAITH in his Word v10.

THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL IN 1 JOHN 3:3-10?

1. They do not purify themselves as JESUS is pure and will not see God v3 *MATTHEW 5:8
2. They break God's Commandments and are DISOBEDIENT and do not FOLLOW God v4
3. They do not ABIDE in CHRIST (the Word) and practice sin and because they practice sin they do not KNOW God v6
4. They are deceived and do not practice RIGHTOUESNESS as JESUS is RIGHTEOUS v7 therefore the children of the Devil are UNRIGHTEOUS.
5. They practice know unrepentant sin therefore are the children of the Devil v8-9
6. God's WORD does not remain in them (the seed) and they are not Born of God v9

...........

CONCULSION: SIN or breaking any one of God's Commandments is the difference between the children of God and the Children of the devil v10

...........

1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 [9], KNOW YOU NOT THAT THE UNRIGHTEOUS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10], Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionists, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Yep once again seem like those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not inherit the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

GALATIANS 5:19-21 [19], Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20], Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21], Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, AS I HAVE ALSO TOLD YOU IN TIME PAST THAT THEY WHICH DO SUCH THINGS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

EPHESIANS 5:1-6 [1], Be you therefore followers of God, as dear children; [2], And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us, and has given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling smell. [3], But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becomes saints; [4], Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. [5], For this you know, that no fornicator, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, HAS ANY INHERITANCE IN THE KINGDOM OF CHRIST AND OF GOD. [6], LET KNOW MAN DECEIVE YOU WITH VAIN WORDS; FOR BECAUSE OF THESE THINGS COMES THE WRATH OF GOD ON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE .

COLOSSIANS 3:5-6 [5], Mortify therefore your members which are on the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[6], FOR WHICH THINGS SAKE THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE.

There is more scriptures happy to provide more brother just let me know. Now do you still believe that those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN? Seems like a lot more scripture then a single one as you claim disagrees with you.

Now brother if you disagree with the scriptures posted it is between you and God. I do not judge you. As posted earlier these are Gods' WORD not mine.

If you disagree, maybe you can show us the scriptures that say all those who continue in known unrepentant sin will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven? If you cannot find such a scriptures then will you believe God's WORD that has been provided here?

From the context, I see the correct quote is "endure to the end" and the general context indicates it's more about love than faith. Since love is matured or made perfect in us so we can have boldness on the day of judgment ...

God's Word is written for God's people. Enduring to the end is in reference to our Christian walk and has two applications. The end meaning our time on earth here being over which is is death or the 2nd coming. We cannot love because we do not have love in us *JOHN 5:42 This is the reason we need to be born again through faith to have a new heart in order to LOVE and follow God's Word *HEBREWS 8:10-12; EZEKIEL 18:30-32; ROMANS 10:17; EZEKIEL 11:19-21; EZEKIEL 36:22-27.

Blessings
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Your confusing God's people with just anyone..
Not at all. Only God's Word has been provided here and God's Word is for God's people as are all the warnings provided in God's Word not to depart the faith and return back to a life of sin. Those doing so according to the scriptures will be lost *HEBREWS 6:4-8
If one of Gods people is saved there is nothing that can tear this child of God away from God.. He may walk away for a time even, but will come back a prodigal before his life is over. God's people cannot be lost.
There is no such thing as once saved always saved. This is a false gospel. Only those who endure temptation to the end *JAMES 1:12 and do not fall away or depart the faith * HEBREWS 6:4-8; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1; 2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 and continue to believe and follow God's Word receive eternal life *MATTHEW 24:13; JAMES 1:12; HEBREWS 3:6; HEBREWS 3:13-14; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23

Blessings
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You kinda have it. I think that you think believing and following makes one a sheep. Jesus doesn’t say that.

Your confused. JESUS does indeed say those who believe and follow Him are his Sheep...

JOHN 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

JOHN 10:26-27 [26] But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you.[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Who's losing their salvation should be the question then. Is there something your particularly worried about?

All those who believe and follow God's Word have nothing to worry about. The scriptures teach that those who do not believe and follow God's Word do not have salvation. All those who are not believing and following God's Word should indeed be worried. Sin and anything we put in our lives before God that takes us away from believing and following God's Word will keep us out of God's Kingdom. This is why we are admonished in the scriptures to examine ourselves to see if as are in the faith or not *1 CORINTHIANS 13:5. This is a question only each person can prayerfully answer for themselves with God and a study of His Word. Many are called but few are chosen *MATTHEW 22:14. Wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction and many go in thereat but narrow is the way that leads to life and few there are that find it *MATTHEW 7:13-14. Many will think they are saved but will be dissappointed come judgment day *MATTHEW 7:22-23 and if the righteous will scarcely be saved where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear *1 PETER 4:18? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4

Blessings
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Maybe you are the “every man”. Have you considered that?

JOHN 3:34 For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him. These are God's Words not mine. You provide your own words which are not God's Word. Only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4
 
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