The missing pieces?

MorkandMindy · Jul 23, 2019

To me the biggest question is why haven't we gone bankrupt yet? We've been losing hundreds of billions of dollars each year in trade losses to the rest of the World for a number of decades, how long can we survive?

MorkandMindy · Jul 23, 2019

evidently something is keeping us up, the question is what, and here is the good news, we have a vast amount of natural resources, enough to keep running with the present deficit for something like a hundred years, and buildings and other assets to sell.

But we don't want to. We would be a lot happier earning our way in the World instead of selling off everything we have.

wing2000 · Jul 23, 2019

We would be happier if we lived within our means. We can't afford this kind of spending:

At $738 billion for Fiscal Year 2020 and $740 billion for Fiscal Year 2021, the agreement sets the table for two of the highest budgets for the Pentagon and related work on nuclear warheads at the Department of Energy since World War II. The proposed figures are higher than spending at the height of the Vietnam and Korean Wars, and substantially more than the high point of the Reagan buildup of the 1980s.

In Budget Deal, White House And Congress Overpay For The Pentagon

DaisyDay · Jul 23, 2019

That's not how it works. The "trade deficit" is not a debt (although we have way too much of that which we should be paying down). The deficit only means that we import more than we export.

MorkandMindy · Jul 23, 2019

The answer for fixing the economy is exactly what both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump were saying: bring back the jobs. There are plenty of nay-Sayers particularly in the media whenever Donald Trump says anything.

Getting back into manufacturing is a good idea because:

1. Germany kept it's manufacturing and brought in automation progressively and their manufacturing is a big money maker.

2. We have to pay the ex-manufacturing workers and families anyway. Not very much in wages but those wages are supplemented by the government in medicaid and in other ways. Overall it costs about the same amount, but some of the money goes to a low wage country and some comes from the new employer and more comes from the government to support the previous workers and dependents in various ways.

3. The various ways is really pernicious. The children may have less focus in school having seen the manufacturing employees jobs leave the country completely with no recourse. The replacement job in a call center paid half as much and was soon also gone, and the retailing job at present is a third of the original factory job, and could go any week now.

Loss of status will cause stress and instability and insecurity could be difficult to deal with but that's why we have psychiatrists and therapists who make money out of these problems and are of course in the middle class.

tall73 · Jul 23, 2019

MorkandMindy said:
To me the biggest question is why haven't we gone bankrupt yet? We've been losing hundreds of billions of dollars each year in trade losses to the rest of the World for a number of decades, how long can we survive?

View attachment 259930

The yearly budget deficit and the accumulated national debt are perhaps more important than the trade deficits. The trade deficits are more of a symptom of the overall situation.

What is keeping us afloat is that the dollar is the reserve currency of the world. Because it is in such high demand, with around 70-80 percent of transactions in the world involving US dollars on at least one side, our dollar remains strong, relative to other currencies.

This is why nations have started to realize that if they stop using the dollar in their transactions, (for selling oil, etc.) they may be able to undercut American economic and military power.

At some point if we are leveraged badly enough, countries may no longer buy our debt. And then we would be in trouble.

Because the dollar is strong this increases our purchasing power. That actually means that buying cheaply produced goods from overseas is relatively cheap for us.

cow451 · Jul 23, 2019

MorkandMindy said:
The answer for fixing the economy is exactly what both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump were saying: bring back the jobs. There are plenty of nay-Sayers particularly in the media whenever Donald Trump says anything.

Getting back into manufacturing is a good idea because:

1. Germany kept it's manufacturing and brought in automation progressively and their manufacturing has brought in a lot of money.

2. We have to pay the ex manufacturing workers and families anyway. Not very much in wages but those wages are supplemented by the government in medicaid and in other ways. Overall it costs about the same amount, but some of the money goes to a low wage country and some comes from the new employer and more comes from the government to support the previous workers and dependents in various ways.

3. The various ways is really pernicious. The children may have less focus in school having seen the manufacturing employees jobs leave the country completely with no recourse. The replacement job in a call center paid half as much and was soon also gone, and the retailing job at present is a third of the original factory job, and could go any week now.

Loss of status will cause stress and instability and insecurity could be difficult to deal with but that's why we have psychiatrists and therapists who make money out of these problems and are of course in the middle class.

Speaking of Germany, every VW plant in the world has a union. Except one. Guess where the one is.

MorkandMindy · Jul 23, 2019

Pessimism is itself a bad thing, better to engage with a challenge and be only partly successful than to simply give up.

iluvatar5150 · Jul 23, 2019

MorkandMindy said:
To me the biggest question is why haven't we gone bankrupt yet? We've been losing hundreds of billions of dollars each year in trade losses to the rest of the World for a number of decades, how long can we survive?

View attachment 259930

Running a trade deficit doesn’t mean we’re losing money. Trump’s description of things in that way is moronic.

MorkandMindy said:
evidently something is keeping us up, the question is what, and here is the good news, we have a vast amount of natural resources, enough to keep running with the present deficit for something like a hundred years, and buildings and other assets to sell.

But we don't want to. We would be a lot happier earning our way in the World instead of selling off everything we have.

If we were selling off everything we had, wouldn’t we be running a trade surplus?

MorkandMindy · Jul 23, 2019

cow451 said:
Speaking of Germany, every VW plant in the world has a union. Except one. Guess where the one is.

Exactly. Every German stands up for himself and his countrymen. People who think the EU benefits from free trade and free movement of labor, capital, companies and intellectual property are ignoring the simple fact that the core of the EU is Germany and Germany does not follow the rules of the EU. Those rules are for fools.

It might be said to be disingenuous to destroy your own working class, and with it a lot of your own country, but the very rich and to some extent the middle class find it profitable and enjoyable. It is in the best interests of everyone to stop them.

We should not be destroying the low income part of our own country.

MorkandMindy · Jul 23, 2019

iluvatar5150 said:
...

If we were selling off everything we had, wouldn’t we be running a trade surplus?

That's what keeps us from going bankrupt, but there is a big problem with the economy we should fix sometime soon I hope

civilwarbuff · Jul 23, 2019

wing2000 said:
We would be happier if we lived within our means. We can't afford this kind of spending:

At $738 billion for Fiscal Year 2020 and $740 billion for Fiscal Year 2021, the agreement sets the table for two of the highest budgets for the Pentagon and related work on nuclear warheads at the Department of Energy since World War II. The proposed figures are higher than spending at the height of the Vietnam and Korean Wars, and substantially more than the high point of the Reagan buildup of the 1980s.

In Budget Deal, White House And Congress Overpay For The Pentagon

Except he is talking dollars not adjusted for inflation....kinda a half truth......

Tanj · Jul 23, 2019

MorkandMindy said:
Getting back into manufacturing

Is the worst idea in the history of bad ideas if your focus is "bringing back the jobs". There's few jobs in manufacturing, and each year automation will mean less.

1. Germany kept it's manufacturing and brought in automation progressively and their manufacturing is a big money maker.

Also not where the jobs are.
Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in Germany (DISCONTINUED)

2. We have to pay the ex-manufacturing workers and families anyway.

Then pay to retrain them in jobs that actually exist.

3. The various ways is really pernicious. The children may have less focus in school having seen the manufacturing employees jobs leave the country completely with no recourse. The replacement job in a call center paid half as much and was soon also gone, and the retailing job at present is a third of the original factory job, and could go any week now.

If call center and retail are the only other employment options you can think of, perhaps you should do a bit more reading on the topic?

MorkandMindy · Jul 23, 2019

20% in manufacturing is enough if there is are a lot of people in support roles behind the manufacturing.

you might prefer to look at how we are doing and how they are doing and explain it yourself

jacks · Jul 23, 2019

Reminds me of the saying: "If you owe a little money you are in trouble. If you owe a lot of money they are in trouble."

Richard T · Jul 24, 2019

USA does not have to go bankrupt ever since the Treasury can print more and more money. What is going to be the deal breaker though are the interest payments on the debt. That is one reason why you see people in power, including Federal Reserve officials making statements about the use of negative interest. Already other nations are doing this. They are charging people to put money in the bank. Instead of earning interest, the government charges them for their deposits. Some even are taking the notion of debt to an extreme, calling the idea of unlimited and massive debt "Modern Monetary Theory." Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
It is also important to note that in measuring debt you look at how much debt you have in comparison to how much a country makes (GDP). In this regard, other Western nations especially Japan have far more debt then the USA. At some point a crisis will emerge and the whole system may fail. (Probably to usher in a world currency).

cow451 · Jul 24, 2019

jacks said:
Reminds me of the saying: "If you owe a little money you are in trouble. If you owe a lot of money they are in trouble."

A poster can think of some people that might say that.

The missing pieces?

Andrew Yang's Forward Party

Andrew Yang's Forward Party

E pluribus unum

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State

Andrew Yang's Forward Party

Sophia7's husband

Standing with Ukraine.

Andrew Yang's Forward Party

Well-Known Member

Andrew Yang's Forward Party

Andrew Yang's Forward Party

Well-Known Member

Redefined comfortable middle class

Andrew Yang's Forward Party

Er Victus

Well-Known Member

Standing with Ukraine.

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