Why Bible Doctrine

ExTiff · Jul 17, 2019

Major1 said:
Your view of the Bible is harsh and very negative and there is nothing I can say that will change that.

To me and a lot of others, the Bible is the Word of God.

My view of the Bible is not harsh. My view of those who claim that the harshness in the Bible is characteristic of Jesus Christ, is that they don't know him and that they will get told exactly that along with the additional information that He never knew them, either.

There may be some parts of it that are violent and seem harsh until we do the contextual work needed to understand why something was done.

Jesus Christ is the Creator, the Messiah and last Prophet.
Colossians 1:16-18.........
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence".

That being said then the truth however is different than your perception. The author of the Bible is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 24: 25-27...…......
"He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory? 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."

The Word of God was given by the Word of God.

Actually, the text implies that Jesus is the subject of the Bible, not its author. The Bible tells us about Jesus, not that Jesus wrote it. It was in fact written entirely by men who were inspired by God. I don't think there were any female scribes involved the production of canonical scripture, unfortunately.

The only sense in which the Bible, (along with everything else), was made by Christ is that Jesus Christ made everthing. John 1:1-3.
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Hazelelponi · Jul 17, 2019

Major1 said:
One of the things I have observed over my years of teaching the Bible is that a great majority of people simply do not follow Bible doctrine. They read it, they hear it and even understand it but just can not aceept it. The question then must be WHY????

The word "Doctrine" simply means instruction, as it applies to how we live. Doctrine then means in everyday language...…...teaching given to us by a source of authority.

1 Timothy 3:16 tells us...……..

"The Bible says of that it is “profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” .

Bible doctrine helps us to know :
1). The will of God.
2). The character of God.
3). The way we can be saved from our sin.
4). How to operate the church.
5). What does God expect from us.

So then, when God has said something, and we read it, we understand it, why do we then reject what God said and do what we want to do and what we want to believe???? Why do we change the doctrines of God???

The answer is that our sinful natures do not easily submit to God’s decrees. The fact is that we as human beings do not like to be told what to do.

That is why we often pick and choose the parts of the Bible we are comfortable with and discard the rest. Or we replace what God says with a man-made doctrine or tradition.

Example":
God said that we shall not murder!

But we say, Abortion is not murder, it is freedom of choice.

You see, we as people tend to change the name and apply what we want to do instead of what God says we should not do.

Example:
God said in Lev. 20:13...….
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:"

But we say, it is called GAY. That sounds better and acceptable.

2nd Timothy 4:3...……..
“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”

My point is that the time Paul told us would come in that Scripture is now HERE!

I agree with your view on the necessity of not only doctrine, but correct doctrine.

However, I disagree with how your applying that doctrine.

It seems your attempting to apply biblical doctrine, and the following thereof, to non-believers, those people outside the church.

I've never met a saved child of God who would participate in abortion for instance - although some women may have prior to being saved, and perhaps have guilt concerning that.

And of course my opinion, and the bible's opinion, is that you cannot be an unrepentant sinner living in sin, and be a saved child of God, therefore, homosexuals who are living in open sin, married or not, are outside the church - and therefore what our doctrine is simply doesnt apply to them.

And that is the conundrum we are running into. As the world moves farther and farther away from anything we would deem acceptable social behavior, we are needing to decide in what manner we are living in the world, without being of this world.

But that one sentence is the true key here, to live in the world without being of it, without allowing sin to stain us. This really doesn't mean we have to force them to follow our faith, it just means we need to learn to live in Babylon without the stain of sin upon us.

God has given them this freedom.. all we can do is fight for ours while living in their world, not force them to live according to our beliefs and doctrines.

Let the church judge the church..

Major1 · Jul 17, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
I agree with your view on the necessity of not only doctrine, but correct doctrine.

However, I disagree with how your applying that doctrine.

It seems your attempting to apply biblical doctrine, and the following thereof, to non-believers, those people outside the church.

I've never met a saved child of God who would participate in abortion for instance - although some women may have prior to being saved, and perhaps have guilt concerning that.

And of course my opinion, and the bible's opinion, is that you cannot be an unrepentant sinner living in sin, and be a saved child of God, therefore, homosexuals who are living in open sin, married or not, are outside the church - and therefore what our doctrine is simply doesnt apply to them.

And that is the conundrum we are running into. As the world moves farther and farther away from anything we would deem acceptable social behavior, we are needing to decide in what manner we are living in the world, without being of this world.

But that one sentence is the true key here, to live in the world without being of it, without allowing sin to stain us. This really doesn't mean we have to force them to follow our faith, it just means we need to learn to live in Babylon without the stain of sin upon us.

God has given them this freedom.. all we can do is fight for ours while living in their world, not force them to live according to our beliefs and doctrines.

Let the church judge the church..

Thank you for your response. I guess I was not clear when I posted this so allow me to be clear in that I was not speaking to non-believers as it makes no difference whatsoever to them if the church follows Bible doctrine or not. Bible doctrine would only apply to those who are part of the Church of the Lord Jesus.

Now with all due respect, and I am not going to argue the point, but if a person votes to place another person into political office who is FOR ABORTION, then they are in essence participating in the ACTS OF ABORTION.

Please read this Scripture carefully...…..Proverbs 12:11-12...……….
"Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. If you say, "But we knew nothing about this," does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay everyone according to what they have done?"

My dear brother, I have seen more so called Christians who claim they are saved but vote to place or keep those politicians in office that vote against Pro-Life than I can count.

You see, those "church members" have made their POLITICS their religion instead of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those people have nothing to worry about from the church because the church has NO power today at all. However......the Bema Seat of Christ will be a real surprise for them one day.

Hazelelponi · Jul 17, 2019

Major1 said:
Thank you for your response. I guess I was not clear when I posted this so allow me to be clear in that I was not speaking to non-believers as it makes no difference whatsoever to them if the church follows Bible doctrine or not. Bible doctrine would only apply to those who are part of the Church of the Lord Jesus.

Now with all due respect, and I am not going to argue the point, but if a person votes to place another person into political office who is FOR ABORTION, then they are in essence participating in the ACTS OF ABORTION.

Please read this Scripture carefully...…..Proverbs 12:11-12...……….
"Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. If you say, "But we knew nothing about this," does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay everyone according to what they have done?"

My dear brother, I have seen more so called Christians who claim they are saved but vote to place or keep those politicians in office that vote against Pro-Life than I can count.

You see, those "church members" have made their POLITICS their religion instead of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those people have nothing to worry about from the church because the church has NO power today at all. However......the Bema Seat of Christ will be a real surprise for them one day.

Okay, I do get what your saying..

That said, my voting tends to stand with my beliefs to a point, although I have to say I don't believe my beliefs should "prevent" others from living the way their own conscious dictates - although I belief our constitution addresses this quite adequately and I'm also free to vote my own conscious, so I do.

However, I don't believe politics and religion mix - At All! I attended an independent Baptist church once when I was looking for a local church to attend, and they pledged allegiance to the flag prior to service.

I never went back. I'm a staunch republican/independent however my religion isnt the politics of this country.

I had a religion before I was saved that made no distinction between politics and faith, your political party was the equivalent of your religious school of thought, and this is not the faith Christ taught. (My Kingdom is not of this world)

However, I also believe the American constitution addresses this quite adequately, and I see no issue except in the minds of a few.

So, I do see myself in pleasant agreement with you, in this case.

God bless you.

Major1 · Jul 17, 2019

ExTiff said:
My view of the Bible is not harsh. My view of those who claim that the harshness in the Bible is characteristic of Jesus Christ, is that they don't know him and that they will get told exactly that along with the additional information that He never knew them, either.

Luke 24: 25-27...…......
"He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory? 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."

Actually, the text implies that Jesus is the subject of the Bible, not its author. The Bible tells us about Jesus, not that Jesus wrote it. It was in fact written entirely by men who were inspired by God. I don't think there were any female scribes involved the production of canonical scripture, unfortunately.

The only sense in which the Bible, (along with everything else), was made by Christ is that Jesus Christ made everthing. John 1:1-3.
.

You are welcome to your opinion. I do not agree with it.

Anyone reading your words would not agree with you in that your opinion of the Bible is "harsh" as it actually is. That is exactly the right word to use.

IMO opinion......Jesus is the author of the Scriptures as well as the subject of them.

Now just think for a moment. Someone had to give the words to those men who wrote the Scripture. And YES, they were all men.

Was it God the Farther, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. Do you see where I am going with this?

All 3 are ONE and Jesus is co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and the Spirit so then it had to be Jesus or the Holy Spirit or the Father. But what does it matter as they are all ONE.

Matthew 28:19...……
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".

John 10:30 ……
" I and [my] Father are one."

Luke 3:22...…...
“And the Holy Spirit descended upon Him [Jesus] in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My [the Father’s] beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

Major1 · Jul 17, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
Okay, I do get what your saying..

That said, my voting tends to stand with my beliefs to a point, although I have to say I don't believe my beliefs should "prevent" others from living the way their own conscious dictates - although I belief our constitution addresses this quite adequately and I'm also free to vote my own conscious, so I do.

However, I don't believe politics and religion mix - At All! I attended an independent Baptist church once when I was looking for a local church to attend, and they pledged allegiance to the flag prior to service.

I never went back. I'm a staunch republican/independent however my religion isnt the politics of this country.

I had a religion before I was saved that made no distinction between politics and faith, your political party was the equivalent of your religious school of thought, and this is not the faith Christ taught. (My Kingdom is not of this world)

However, I also believe the American constitution addresses this quite adequately, and I see no issue except in the minds of a few.

So, I do see myself in pleasant agreement with you, in this case.

God bless you.

That is great news. Thanks for the reply.

I will tell you that I am also a Baptist (Southern).

As far as religion and politics. I would ask you to remember what the 1st Pilgrams were who came to this land. They were a Chruch Relocation Project. They were a church in England and were excommunicated to the Netherlands and then came to the USA.

Also, Jefferson included the church and state thing in the Constitution to keep politics out of religion and NOT religion out of politics.

Hazelelponi · Jul 17, 2019

Major1 said:
That is great news. Thanks for the reply.

I will tell you that I am also a Baptist (Southern).

As far as religion and politics. I would ask you to remember what the 1st Pilgrams were who came to this land. They were a Chruch Relocation Project. They were a church in England and were excommunicated to the Netherlands and then came to the USA.

Also, Jefferson included the church and state thing in the Constitution to keep politics out of religion and NOT religion out of politics.

I'm reformed Baptist, but am currently in attendance at an SBC church.. (for a lack of a reformed Baptist in my small town)

I do know about Jefferson, and what the intention was..

I feel a little more open toward religion and politics right now than the stance our forefathers took, as far as how to deal with the unbelieving people's in our midst..

the Victorian mindset was to control society or society would get so bad it would become intolerable, which I also agree with..(to simplify)

but at the same time it's God's restraining Hand that restrains, and I more and more feel (yes that means emotion) that it's not my place to be that Hand of God upon society..

I could be wrong for real... but it just in many ways seems wrong to try and dictate societal standards according to my faith.

I don't see this happening with the Apostles..rather, the Gospel was their only concern, not politics.

ExTiff · Jul 17, 2019

Major1 said:
You are welcome to your opinion. I do not agree with it.

You don't have to, and I don't have to agree with yours in order to remain either orthodox or right.

Anyone reading your words would not agree with you in that your opinion of the Bible is "harsh" as it actually is. That is exactly the right word to use.

You realy only mean: Anyone who agrees with you, reading my words would not agree with me, that my opinion of the Bible is not "harsh". Be that as it may.

IMO opinion......Jesus is the author of the Scriptures as well as the subject of them.

In a way I agree with you.

Now just think for a moment. Someone had to give the words to those men who wrote the Scripture. And YES, they were all men.

That is where we differ on what it means to believe the Bible is inspired. You seem to believe that the words were dictated by God to men, like the Koran is claimed to be. If that were actually the case then we could expect all the books of the Bible to have the same style, diction, phrasiology, spelling, grammar and even the same spacing, if as you say it was dictated word for word by God. But it wasn't! and Isn't any of those things. Your preconception disqualifies your understanding of the text and also the way God has spoken through the medium He chose to communicate with us.

The Biblical scribes were not spiritual mediums using trancelike automatic writing. The New testament authors assembled written evidence, sorted and edited it, honed it, put the stamp of their own style upon it, chose the words and put together the sentences with the intention of communicating their intention of presenting to us a composite picture of Their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. In the case of St John, specifically that we "might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing we might have life through his name." Mark's grammar is appalling and his spelling is not that hot either, but he just couldn't wait to tell us all about Jesus. His style is like a young kid describing a days visit to Disneyland with mum and dad. It's exciting, impatient, breathless and SHORT. John is exactly the opposite. Not a single word is wasted, every word is essential to the meaning of the text. Every sentence carries deeper meaning than meets the eye. And incidentally he contradicts the other three synoptics often because he is saying something deeper and more important than just recording history.

Was it God the Farther, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. Do you see where I am going with this?

All 3 are ONE and Jesus is co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and the Spirit so then it had to be Jesus or the Holy Spirit or the Father. But what does it matter as they are all ONE.

Matthew 28:19...……
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".

John 10:30 ……
" I and [my] Father are one."

Luke 3:22...…...
“And the Holy Spirit descended upon Him [Jesus] in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My [the Father’s] beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

Well those eggs have been well and truly, successfully 'sucked'. Thanks! Is there anything else you want to teach me about the Trinity?
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ralfyman · Jul 17, 2019

Hedrick got it right.

ExTiff · Jul 17, 2019

Major1 said:
.

And while we are on the subject of the Trinity:

[ Jesus says he and the Father are the same - "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father" John 14:9. So it's not just that Jesus is like God, it's also that God is like Jesus. As Christians our baseline as to what God is like is the figure of Jesus, and Jesus is the very opposite of a smite-first-ask-questions-later God. In the Gospels, every time Jesus has the opportunity to do any smiting, he refuses. He refuses to rain down fire on the Samaritan village; he refuses to stone a woman caught in adultery. Dying and bleeding on a cross, he refuses to call down armies of angels to save him.

Instead, Jesus talks of endless, limitless forgiveness. He called on people to love their enemies, to offer the other cheek. If we believe in the Trinity - really believe in it, rather than just paying lip service to the doctrine - we have to believe that what we see in Jesus is the character and actions of God. Whatever the Isrealites might have heard from God - or think they heard - (I have heard many people claim to have heard God tell them to do all sorts of dodgy things) - we cannot possibly behave in the same way.

We follow a Christlike God.
God is Christlike, and in him there is no unChristlikeness at all. If we want to read the Bible properly, we must read it through the lens of our understanding of what Christ was like when people could 'see him', because THAT is exactly what God is also like. Anyone who says differently is calling Jesus a liar. And if one part of the Bible says something that conflicts with what Jesus says, well, I'm going to listen to Jesus first.

That doesn't mean I reject these kinds of texts, or refrain from grappling with them. I want to keep praying and talking and thinking about these passages, and asking God to reveal their application to my life in today's world. If I put the history to one side (and leave it in the bronze age where it belongs), and think of the daily spiritual battles that I have to fight to take possession of my own life, I have plenty enough 'Canaanites' to fight in that context. Canaanites can stand for all the things that tempt us away from following God. We can read these stories as an encouragement to purity and integrity while resisting the culture around us . . . rather than an encouragement or invitation to commit genocide.

Or I could see these stories as a message about never going into conflict for personal gain, (like some did in Iraq, and some in the USA got immensely rich through it), The demand not to take a single item of booty is common to all these texts of destruction.

Or I could reflect on how difficult it is to hear the command of God, and ask myself whether there haven't been many times in my life when I have mistakenly believed that God hates the same people I do.

Or I could imagine the victims: their terror, their panic, their grief and loss. Maybe that will inspire me to think about the victims today of all those who kill and maim and bomb, believing that somehow God has commanded them to do it.

Or I could simply contrast this passage with the message of Jesus, and wrestle with the challenge of living a Jesus-shaped life in the midst of a culture that is every bit as addicted to violence as the age of Joshua and Judges. ] (from The Badly behaved Bible by Nick Page, Hodder & Stoughton)

Some Christians still don't 'get it'. The Trinity I mean. They think that belief in Jesus will protect them from a basically wrathful God. Jesus they think is our 'Advocate', our defense lawyer, who will stand up for us before 'our Judge', (they presume that this judge will be God), with perhaps the Holy Spirit hovering nearby, to see fair play. But they are very confused indeed because they don't understand The Trinity.

Jesus IS God. Jesus, will judge the nations. Psalms 67:4, Psalms 82:8, Romans 2:16, 2 Timothy 4:1.

When you meet Jesus you will be meeting God. There are not three Gods, but fully and only ONE. Paradoxically, that is the fundamental truth of the doctrine of the Trinity.
.

Major1 · Jul 21, 2019

ExTiff said:
You don't have to, and I don't have to agree with yours in order to remain either orthodox or right.

You realy only mean: Anyone who agrees with you, reading my words would not agree with me, that my opinion of the Bible is not "harsh". Be that as it may.

In a way I agree with you.

That is where we differ on what it means to believe the Bible is inspired. You seem to believe that the words were dictated by God to men, like the Koran is claimed to be. If that were actually the case then we could expect all the books of the Bible to have the same style, diction, phrasiology, spelling, grammar and even the same spacing, if as you say it was dictated word for word by God. But it wasn't! and Isn't any of those things. Your preconception disqualifies your understanding of the text and also the way God has spoken through the medium He chose to communicate with us.

The Biblical scribes were not spiritual mediums using trancelike automatic writing. The New testament authors assembled written evidence, sorted and edited it, honed it, put the stamp of their own style upon it, chose the words and put together the sentences with the intention of communicating their intention of presenting to us a composite picture of Their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. In the case of St John, specifically that we "might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing we might have life through his name." Mark's grammar is appalling and his spelling is not that hot either, but he just couldn't wait to tell us all about Jesus. His style is like a young kid describing a days visit to Disneyland with mum and dad. It's exciting, impatient, breathless and SHORT. John is exactly the opposite. Not a single word is wasted, every word is essential to the meaning of the text. Every sentence carries deeper meaning than meets the eye. And incidentally he contradicts the other three synoptics often because he is saying something deeper and more important than just recording history.

Well those eggs have been well and truly, successfully 'sucked'. Thanks! Is there anything else you want to teach me about the Trinity?
.

Sense you have demonstrated a non-teachable spirit, what do you think could be said that you would accept?

I really do not have the time and energy to be involved in such foolishness.

2 Peter 1:21...……
For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Believe what you want to believe my friend.

ExTiff · Jul 21, 2019

Major1 said:
Sense you have demonstrated a non-teachable spirit, what do you think could be said that you would accept?

I really do not have the time and energy to be involved in such foolishness.

2 Peter 1:21...……
For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Believe what you want to believe my friend.

2 Peter 1:21 says, (and it is definitely inspired scripture I agree):

fornoprophecywaseverproducedbythewillofmanbutmenspokefromgodastheywerecarriedalongbytheholyspirit

But of course it actually says it in Greek, which goes more like this:

οὐγὰρθελήματιἀνθρώπουἠνέχθηπροφητείαποτέἀλλὰὑπὸΠνεύματοςἉγίουφερόμενοιἐλάλησανἀπὸΘεοῦἄνθρωποι

Which are the Greek words:

ou gar thelemati anthropou enechthe propheteia pote alla hypo Pneumatos Hagiou pheromenoi elalesan apo Theou anthropoi.

Omitting the accents over some of the letters and putting spaces between words, ( which do not appear in the original Greek, which has no wordspaces), just to make the words easier for you to differentiate.

So in English this inspired sentence would actually say:

notforbywillofmanwasbroughtprophesyatanytimebutbyspiritholybeingcarriedspokefromgodmen

Some (hopefully inspired), translator has put in spaces between the words in your Bible, added Capitals where they think sentences began or for nouns like 'God', and full stops, (or periods if you are American), to show where sentences are thought to have ended and the occasional comma, semicolon, colon or question mark. None of which are in the original Koine Greek.

Now stop trying to teach me, and getting me to suck eggs. I'm getting egg bound constipation answering objections.

Scripture says it is inspired by God. But your understanding of what that actually entails might, just might, be not as extensive as you seem confidently to believe.

So I would thank you not to keep telling me that what I believe is WRONG but what you believe is RIGHT.

Regards Chris.

anna ~ grace · Jul 21, 2019

Major1 said:
One of the things I have observed over my years of teaching the Bible is that a great majority of people simply do not follow Bible doctrine. They read it, they hear it and even understand it but just can not aceept it. The question then must be WHY????

The word "Doctrine" simply means instruction, as it applies to how we live. Doctrine then means in everyday language...…...teaching given to us by a source of authority.

1 Timothy 3:16 tells us...……..

"The Bible says of that it is “profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” .

Bible doctrine helps us to know :
1). The will of God.
2). The character of God.
3). The way we can be saved from our sin.
4). How to operate the church.
5). What does God expect from us.

So then, when God has said something, and we read it, we understand it, why do we then reject what God said and do what we want to do and what we want to believe???? Why do we change the doctrines of God???

The answer is that our sinful natures do not easily submit to God’s decrees. The fact is that we as human beings do not like to be told what to do.

That is why we often pick and choose the parts of the Bible we are comfortable with and discard the rest. Or we replace what God says with a man-made doctrine or tradition.

Example":
God said that we shall not murder!

But we say, Abortion is not murder, it is freedom of choice.

You see, we as people tend to change the name and apply what we want to do instead of what God says we should not do.

Example:
God said in Lev. 20:13...….
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:"

But we say, it is called GAY. That sounds better and acceptable.

2nd Timothy 4:3...……..
“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”

My point is that the time Paul told us would come in that Scripture is now HERE!

I think a huge temptation is just to say "oh, this doesn't apply to me / to my situation, and God just wants me to be happy".

Or, increasingly, to apply psychology in place of Scriptural commands. So, setting up boundaries and protecting yourself emotionally can, in some cases, be used as an excuse to withhold forgiveness.

Major1 · Jul 23, 2019

ExTiff said:
2 Peter 1:21 says, (and it is definitely inspired scripture I agree):

fornoprophecywaseverproducedbythewillofmanbutmenspokefromgodastheywerecarriedalongbytheholyspirit

But of course it actually says it in Greek, which goes more like this:

οὐγὰρθελήματιἀνθρώπουἠνέχθηπροφητείαποτέἀλλὰὑπὸΠνεύματοςἉγίουφερόμενοιἐλάλησανἀπὸΘεοῦἄνθρωποι

Which are the Greek words:

ou gar thelemati anthropou enechthe propheteia pote alla hypo Pneumatos Hagiou pheromenoi elalesan apo Theou anthropoi.

Omitting the accents over some of the letters and putting spaces between words, ( which do not appear in the original Greek, which has no wordspaces), just to make the words easier for you to differentiate.

So in English this inspired sentence would actually say:

notforbywillofmanwasbroughtprophesyatanytimebutbyspiritholybeingcarriedspokefromgodmen

Some (hopefully inspired), translator has put in spaces between the words in your Bible, added Capitals where they think sentences began or for nouns like 'God', and full stops, (or periods if you are American), to show where sentences are thought to have ended and the occasional comma, semicolon, colon or question mark. None of which are in the original Koine Greek.

Now stop trying to teach me, and getting me to suck eggs. I'm getting egg bound constipation answering objections.

Scripture says it is inspired by God. But your understanding of what that actually entails might, just might, be not as extensive as you seem confidently to believe.

So I would thank you not to keep telling me that what I believe is WRONG but what you believe is RIGHT.

Regards Chris.

I guess you think that this post was helpful but all it is is a waste of time on your part because I do not care even a little bit.

Then for you sake choose the "IGNORE" option for me and stop answering my comments and we will both be happy.

PLEASE read comment #31!

Major1 · Jul 23, 2019

Gracia Singh said:
I think a huge temptation is just to say "oh, this doesn't apply to me / to my situation, and God just wants me to be happy".

Or, increasingly, to apply psychology in place of Scriptural commands. So, setting up boundaries and protecting yourself emotionally can, in some cases, be used as an excuse to withhold forgiveness.

Yes.

It is the same thing when the Pastor is preaching a sermon and people in the pew say...…….
"He is not speaking to me......but I know he is speaking to Bobby Sue".

Major1 · Jul 23, 2019

ExTiff said:
And while we are on the subject of the Trinity:

[ Jesus says he and the Father are the same - "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father" John 14:9. So it's not just that Jesus is like God, it's also that God is like Jesus. As Christians our baseline as to what God is like is the figure of Jesus, and Jesus is the very opposite of a smite-first-ask-questions-later God. In the Gospels, every time Jesus has the opportunity to do any smiting, he refuses. He refuses to rain down fire on the Samaritan village; he refuses to stone a woman caught in adultery. Dying and bleeding on a cross, he refuses to call down armies of angels to save him.

Instead, Jesus talks of endless, limitless forgiveness. He called on people to love their enemies, to offer the other cheek. If we believe in the Trinity - really believe in it, rather than just paying lip service to the doctrine - we have to believe that what we see in Jesus is the character and actions of God. Whatever the Isrealites might have heard from God - or think they heard - (I have heard many people claim to have heard God tell them to do all sorts of dodgy things) - we cannot possibly behave in the same way.

We follow a Christlike God.
God is Christlike, and in him there is no unChristlikeness at all. If we want to read the Bible properly, we must read it through the lens of our understanding of what Christ was like when people could 'see him', because THAT is exactly what God is also like. Anyone who says differently is calling Jesus a liar. And if one part of the Bible says something that conflicts with what Jesus says, well, I'm going to listen to Jesus first.

That doesn't mean I reject these kinds of texts, or refrain from grappling with them. I want to keep praying and talking and thinking about these passages, and asking God to reveal their application to my life in today's world. If I put the history to one side (and leave it in the bronze age where it belongs), and think of the daily spiritual battles that I have to fight to take possession of my own life, I have plenty enough 'Canaanites' to fight in that context. Canaanites can stand for all the things that tempt us away from following God. We can read these stories as an encouragement to purity and integrity while resisting the culture around us . . . rather than an encouragement or invitation to commit genocide.

Or I could see these stories as a message about never going into conflict for personal gain, (like some did in Iraq, and some in the USA got immensely rich through it), The demand not to take a single item of booty is common to all these texts of destruction.

Or I could reflect on how difficult it is to hear the command of God, and ask myself whether there haven't been many times in my life when I have mistakenly believed that God hates the same people I do.

Or I could imagine the victims: their terror, their panic, their grief and loss. Maybe that will inspire me to think about the victims today of all those who kill and maim and bomb, believing that somehow God has commanded them to do it.

Or I could simply contrast this passage with the message of Jesus, and wrestle with the challenge of living a Jesus-shaped life in the midst of a culture that is every bit as addicted to violence as the age of Joshua and Judges. ] (from The Badly behaved Bible by Nick Page, Hodder & Stoughton)

Some Christians still don't 'get it'. The Trinity I mean. They think that belief in Jesus will protect them from a basically wrathful God. Jesus they think is our 'Advocate', our defense lawyer, who will stand up for us before 'our Judge', (they presume that this judge will be God), with perhaps the Holy Spirit hovering nearby, to see fair play. But they are very confused indeed because they don't understand The Trinity.

Jesus IS God. Jesus, will judge the nations. Psalms 67:4, Psalms 82:8, Romans 2:16, 2 Timothy 4:1.

When you meet Jesus you will be meeting God. There are not three Gods, but fully and only ONE. Paradoxically, that is the fundamental truth of the doctrine of the Trinity.
.

The Bible says teaches us that there is ONE God made up us THREE persons...……
1. The Father.
2. The Son.
3. The Holy Spirit.

All 3 are co-equal and co-eternal and all 3 are ONE.

I do not know about some Christians but the Bible truth clearly teaches us that we are SAVED from the coming judgment of God on sin.

ALL sin must be paid for and to be SAVED means we allow and accept what Jesus did for us or we pay for our sin ourselves.

ExTiff · Jul 23, 2019

Major1 said:
I guess you think that this post was helpful but all it is is a waste of time on your part because I do not care even a little bit.

Then for you sake choose the "IGNORE" option for me and stop answering my comments and we will both be happy.

PLEASE read comment #31!

Aparently ostriches do not bury their heads in the sand. Though it would appear that some so called 'believers' metaphorically do, and then accuse others of being stupid or heretical, insisting on 'teaching' them what they insist is the right way to 'believe'.
.

Major1 · Jul 23, 2019

ExTiff said:
Aparently ostriches do not bury their heads in the sand. Though it would appear that some so called 'believers' metaphorically do, and then accuse others of being stupid or heretical, insisting on 'teaching' them what they insist is the right way to 'believe'.
.

I have no problem debating with you or discussing anything with you. I do not wish for you to run away and hide. However, It is that you just continue to be very sarcastic and rude in your comments to me and I have to wonder WHY you keep responding.

You come across as a bitter, angry person with an axe to grind and I have no clue as to why.

But as the "right" way to believe as a Christian is to accept what the Scriptures say instead of what anyone wants to think.

Friedrich Nietzsche said...…...
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."

I for one do not accept that kind of thinking.

If I said I was going to climb the Empire state building and I do it, and I reached the top of the Empire State Building, that's it, isn't it? There is no other Mount Everest on the face of this planet. There's only one.

If I am running a store, I must stock the shelves to sell my product. Is there more than one way to do that? NO! There is only ONE WAY. Take the stuff out of a box and put it on the shelf so people will buy my product. There is only ONE WAY.

Take that thought all the way to the end and you will see that anyone with a specific goal or achievement in mind, who has a crystal clear picture of the result they want to achieve, will always be in search of the one and only one exactly right way to achieve it.

In the Christian faith, there is only ONE WAY to believe.

John 14:6..........
"Jesus said, I am the WAY the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except by me".........That is ONE and the only way to believe.

YOU however are free to believe anything you choose to do so.

Hammster · Jul 23, 2019

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Closed because of continuous rude behavior by some.

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Psalm 144:1

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