Spontaneity and Impulsiveness or promptings of the Spirit?

Monksailor · Jul 21, 2019

Impulsive= acting or done without forethought.

Spontaneous= coming or resulting from a natural impulse or tendency; without effort or premeditation; natural and unconstrained; unplanned: a spontaneous burst of applause.

(of a person) given to acting upon sudden impulses.

(of natural phenomena) arising from internal forces or causes; independent of external agencies; self-acting.

-IMPULSE and WITH NO FORETHOUGHT seems to be the common thread here.-
How does one know which is which? All three usually exhibit great emotion. A well-placed "Amen!" during a sermon can be inspirational but others can be redundant and a distraction; even maddening. One time I was at a church which allowed impulsive bursts of someone jumping up and shouting indiscernible things right in the middle of a sermon for which there was no explanation or interpretation and sometimes 2 or 3 were doing this simultaneously. I got NOTHING out of anything which transpired as the sermon itself was so chopped up and distracted. 1 Corinthians 14 informs us that the spiritual gifts should be worked out in an orderly manner and even gives a "protocol" for such so by going by the definitions here it would seem that promptings of the Spirit would also be accompanied with an orderly expression thereof. What do you think? Sometimes that "Amen!" should be stifled or controlled by the individual as I think it is just a "look at me. I am so Spiritual" statement (vain glorification or babbling) more than anything else and a total distraction to the body of Christ. How can one make sure that it IS the Spirit prompting them and not an emotional attachment to the message creating the IMPULSE?

childeye 2 · Jul 21, 2019

Monksailor said:
Impulsive= acting or done without forethought.

Spontaneous= coming or resulting from a natural impulse or tendency; without effort or premeditation; natural and unconstrained; unplanned: a spontaneous burst of applause.

(of a person) given to acting upon sudden impulses.

(of natural phenomena) arising from internal forces or causes; independent of external agencies; self-acting.

-IMPULSE and WITH NO FORETHOUGHT seems to be the common thread here.-
How does one know which is which? All three usually exhibit great emotion. A well-placed "Amen!" during a sermon can be inspirational but others can be redundant and a distraction; even maddening. One time I was at a church which allowed impulsive bursts of someone jumping up and shouting indiscernible things right in the middle of a sermon for which there was no explanation or interpretation and sometimes 2 or 3 were doing this simultaneously. I got NOTHING out of anything which transpired as the sermon itself was so chopped up and distracted. 1 Corinthians 14 informs us that the spiritual gifts should be worked out in an orderly manner and even gives a "protocol" for such so by going by the definitions here it would seem that promptings of the Spirit would also be accompanied with an orderly expression thereof. What do you think? Sometimes that "Amen!" should be stifled or controlled by the individual as I think it is just a "look at me. I am so Spiritual" statement (vain glorification or babbling) more than anything else and a total distraction to the body of Christ. How can one make sure that it IS the Spirit prompting them and not an emotional attachment to the message creating the IMPULSE?

Great topic. My answer is that vanity is imaginary in it's formation rather than the product of spiritual discernment and sound reasoning.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 21, 2019

Monksailor said:
Impulsive= acting or done without forethought.

Spontaneous= coming or resulting from a natural impulse or tendency; without effort or premeditation; natural and unconstrained; unplanned: a spontaneous burst of applause.

(of a person) given to acting upon sudden impulses.

(of natural phenomena) arising from internal forces or causes; independent of external agencies; self-acting.

-IMPULSE and WITH NO FORETHOUGHT seems to be the common thread here.-
How does one know which is which? All three usually exhibit great emotion. A well-placed "Amen!" during a sermon can be inspirational but others can be redundant and a distraction; even maddening. One time I was at a church which allowed impulsive bursts of someone jumping up and shouting indiscernible things right in the middle of a sermon for which there was no explanation or interpretation and sometimes 2 or 3 were doing this simultaneously. I got NOTHING out of anything which transpired as the sermon itself was so chopped up and distracted. 1 Corinthians 14 informs us that the spiritual gifts should be worked out in an orderly manner and even gives a "protocol" for such so by going by the definitions here it would seem that promptings of the Spirit would also be accompanied with an orderly expression thereof. What do you think? Sometimes that "Amen!" should be stifled or controlled by the individual as I think it is just a "look at me. I am so Spiritual" statement (vain glorification or babbling) more than anything else and a total distraction to the body of Christ. How can one make sure that it IS the Spirit prompting them and not an emotional attachment to the message creating the IMPULSE?

You are correctly described actions of the flesh and not of the Spirit. Paul says that the spirit of a prophet is subject to the prophet - in other words, there is absolute self-control in every action or manifestation of the Spirit.

If a word of prophecy comes to a person in the middle of the sermon, then the person has to determine whether the prophecy is correct, and to wait on God for an opportunity to give it. If there is no opportunity, he can write the prophecy down and submit it to the leadership, and if they concur that it is a good prophecy, they can arrange to have it read out to the church. If I get fresh insights in the Word, I write them down so I have a record of them, and if they are worth sharing with others, the opportunity will present itself.

As far as other manifestations. We need to be careful of impulsive, kundalini type manifestations. These are not of the Spirit but are of the flesh. There are plenty of Youtube examples of flesh manifestations, and it is sad that these have now become part of mainstream Charismatic, giving many the wrong impression of what the Charismatic movement is all about.

Paul was adamant that speaking in tongues during services has to be accompanied with interpretation. He said it is better to prophesy if there were no interpreters of tongues in the meeting. He said if one wants to pray in tongues let him do it to himself and to God - in other words, do it privately, not publicly. We see too many examples of people publicly speaking in tongues with no interpretation. They may be "giving thanks well" according to Paul, but has no edifying function in the meeting. The uncontrolled babbling in tongues in some meetings is disrespectful of the gift and of the Holy Spirit who gives it. In fact, it is an insult to the Holy Spirit! It is the same with belting someone over the head with a crescent spanner instead of using it to loosen a bolt.

Monksailor · Jul 21, 2019

I am also addressing non-charismatic churches with those 100 "Amens!" per sermon individuals. That is SOOOOO annoying. I cannot sit through a sermon with such a distraction. I think that there ARE appropriate times for an "Amen!" and I think that the Spirit is good at planting them through someone, but sometimes there are those who just destroy the sermon with their "Amens!" Those people remind me of the demon-possessed woman who followed Jesus through the streets telling everyone who He was and whom Jesus rebuked.

Monksailor · Jul 21, 2019

Oscarr said:
You are correctly described actions of the flesh and not of the Spirit. Paul says that the spirit of a prophet is subject to the prophet - in other words, there is absolute self-control in every action or manifestation of the Spirit.

If a word of prophecy comes to a person in the middle of the sermon, then the person has to determine whether the prophecy is correct, and to wait on God for an opportunity to give it. If there is no opportunity, he can write the prophecy down and submit it to the leadership, and if they concur that it is a good prophecy, they can arrange to have it read out to the church. If I get fresh insights in the Word, I write them down so I have a record of them, and if they are worth sharing with others, the opportunity will present itself.

As far as other manifestations. We need to be careful of impulsive, kundalini type manifestations. These are not of the Spirit but are of the flesh. There are plenty of Youtube examples of flesh manifestations, and it is sad that these have now become part of mainstream Charismatic, giving many the wrong impression of what the Charismatic movement is all about.

Paul was adamant that speaking in tongues during services has to be accompanied with interpretation. He said it is better to prophesy if there were no interpreters of tongues in the meeting. He said if one wants to pray in tongues let him do it to himself and to God - in other words, do it privately, not publicly. We see too many examples of people publicly speaking in tongues with no interpretation. They may be "giving thanks well" according to Paul, but has no edifying function in the meeting. The uncontrolled babbling in tongues in some meetings is disrespectful of the gift and of the Holy Spirit who gives it. In fact, it is an insult to the Holy Spirit! It is the same with belting someone over the head with a crescent spanner instead of using it to loosen a bolt.

Thank you.

ChicanaRose · Jul 21, 2019

Monksailor said:
Sometimes that "Amen!" should be stifled or controlled by the individual as I think it is just a "look at me. I am so Spiritual" statement (vain glorification or babbling) more than anything else and a total distraction to the body of Christ. How can one make sure that it IS the Spirit prompting them and not an emotional attachment to the message creating the IMPULSE?

You will know the tree by its fruit (Luke 6:44). Does the person who shout Amen and/or prophesy in the church impulsive or ostentatious in other areas of her life and ministry? How she behaves outside of worship service can either confirm or help you rethink your intuition about her.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 21, 2019

Monksailor said:
I am also addressing non-charismatic churches with those 100 "Amens!" per sermon individuals. That is SOOOOO annoying. I cannot sit through a sermon with such a distraction. I think that there ARE appropriate times for an "Amen!" and I think that the Spirit is good at planting them through someone, but sometimes there are those who just destroy the sermon with their "Amens!" Those people remind me of the demon-possessed woman who followed Jesus through the streets telling everyone who He was and whom Jesus rebuked.

I agree. I hear those "amens" and "come ons" while hearing a sermon and I also find them annoying. I get the impression that the person or persons saying the "amens" in fairly loud voices that can be heard through the speaker' microphone are demonstrating "I knew that", or "I'm spiritual too, and that's why I'm saying amen!"

When I hear a comment in a sermon that "speaks" to me in a special way and gives me a fresh insight, I just smile and nod my head. I don't need to let everyone know that this is happened to me. But the speaker may stop and ask, "Am I making sense?" And this gives the congregation a chance to either affirm, or ask questions if something is not clear.

Of course, I am used to Presbyterian congregations who, when I preach, sit there like wooden statues with expressionless faces. I often don't know whether they are approving or not. But afterward some will come up to me and tell me that I have preached a good sermon.

Just an afterthought: I think it is acceptable if the whole, or the majority of the congregation says "amen" in response to a comment that blesses them. I would find that quite encouraging. It is like an audience giving applause to a stand-up comedian when he has told a very witty and funny joke.

Monksailor · Jul 21, 2019

ChicanaRose said:
You will know the tree by its fruit (Luke 6:44). Does the person who shout Amen and/or prophesy in the church impulsive or ostentatious in other areas of her life and ministry? How she behaves outside of worship service can either confirm or help you rethink your intuition about her.

I do not think that it is my place to judge them. I only know that what they do is a terrible distraction. Ones which I will never sit through again. I will stand up and inform them and the others how distracting they are and leave.

Monksailor · Jul 22, 2019

Oscarr said:
I agree. I hear those "amens" and "come ons" while hearing a sermon and I also find them annoying. I get the impression that the person or persons saying the "amens" in fairly loud voices that can be heard through the speaker' microphone are demonstrating "I knew that", or "I'm spiritual too, and that's why I'm saying amen!"

When I hear a comment in a sermon that "speaks" to me in a special way and gives me a fresh insight, I just smile and nod my head. I don't need to let everyone know that this is happened to me. But the speaker may stop and ask, "Am I making sense?" And this gives the congregation a chance to either affirm, or ask questions if something is not clear.

Of course, I am used to Presbyterian congregations who, when I preach, sit there like wooden statues with expressionless faces. I often don't know whether they are approving or not. But afterward some will come up to me and tell me that I have preached a good sermon.

Just an afterthought: I think it is acceptable if the whole, or the majority of the congregation says "amen" in response to a comment that blesses them. I would find that quite encouraging. It is like an audience giving applause to a stand-up comedian when he has told a very witty and funny joke.

Yes. The continual onslaught from one individual is nerve-racking. Like I said, it reminds me of that demon-possessed girl who harassed Jesus. If I was trying to preach a sermon through such an onslaught I would stop and stare straight at them for a very long minute then I would ask them if they would like to get up and preach a sermon because all of their interruptions were not allowing me to do so. I would let them if they wanted and "Amen!" them to death, otherwise, "Shut Up!" in more tasteful words. Yes, that is why I said a well-"planted" "Amen!" by the Holy Spirit (in humility and quietness of Spirit) can be much appreciated and I am sure more so by the Pastor, than most.

ChicanaRose · Jul 22, 2019

Monksailor said:
I do not think that it is my place to judge them. I only know that what they do is a terrible distraction. Ones which I will never sit through again. I will stand up and inform them and the others how distracting they are and leave.

I based my answer on your original comment and question below. But that's good that you decided not to judge, but just focus on the action. Will you be the first one to confront them, or has someone else already confronted them before?

Monksailor said:
Sometimes that "Amen!" should be stifled or controlled by the individual as I think it is just a "look at me. I am so Spiritual" statement (vain glorification or babbling) more than anything else and a total distraction to the body of Christ. How can one make sure that it IS the Spirit prompting them and not an emotional attachment to the message creating the IMPULSE?

Monksailor · Jul 22, 2019

ChicanaRose said:
I based my answer on your original comment and question below. But that's good that you decided not to judge, but just focus on the action. Will you be the first one to confront them, or has someone else already confronted them before?

There was no judgement; just mere observation. The Pastor has been selected to be the shepherd and minister for many reasons; one is to provide instruction and wisdom from God's Word to his flock. It is HIS designated job; not one of the sheep of the flock. If one of the sheep jumps up and cuts him off from feeding the flock, esp as in my experience where there was NOT ONE interpretation of all of the impulsive and annoying distractions which destroyed the sermon, then it was just some person wanting attention at any cost, even if the whole flock was starved. This goes for those annoying "Amen-ers," too!

Monksailor · Jul 22, 2019

While it is on my mind and the thread is upon a point where insertion is topic-appropriate I ask if we remember what the unforgivable sin is? It was/is blasphemy; making the accusation that what is really of the Holy Spirit is of the devil/Baal. This explanation by Jesus was given after a miracle Jesus had performed was accused of coming from Baal and not from God. I suppose that by a logical deduction that the inverse is also blasphemy; making the accusation/assertion that what is really of Baal/the devil (self-glorification) is of the Holy Spirit. This is extremely, ultra critical to consider as murder, rape, incest, and the like ARE forgivable. Blasphemy, which could easily include feigning the Holy Spirit for self-glorification, is NOT EVER forgivable. I would want to err on the side of safety if I were to ever consider venturing into such a cursed activity. But this logical deduction I make could could be amiss.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 22, 2019

Monksailor said:
While it is on my mind and the thread is upon a point where insertion is topic-appropriate I ask if we remember what the unforgivable sin is? It was/is blasphemy; making the accusation that what is really of the Holy Spirit is of the devil/Baal. This explanation by Jesus was given after a miracle Jesus had performed was accused of coming from Baal and not from God. I suppose that by a logical deduction that the inverse is also blasphemy; making the accusation/assertion that what is really of Baal/the devil (self-glorification) is of the Holy Spirit. This is extremely, ultra critical to consider as murder, rape, incest, and the like ARE forgivable. Blasphemy, which could easily include feigning the Holy Spirit for self-glorification, is NOT EVER forgivable. I would want to err on the side of safety if I were to ever consider venturing into such a cursed activity. But this logical deduction I make could could be amiss.

Sinning against the Holy Spirit is a very serious matter, as is seen in the example of Ananias and Sapphira who told just a little white lie about how much of the proceeds of the sale of their property they were giving as an offering to the Lord.

What needs to be remembered is that our modern churches have not even a fraction of the presence and power of the Holy Spirit that the early church under the leadership of Peter and James had. This same power was shown in Paul's ministry when a false prophet was struck blind when all he did was to try and persuade a Roman official not to listen to Paul's sharing of the gospel to him.

We see the Holy Spirit insulted time and time again in our churches, and we see many opposing the gospel and persuading people not to listen to the preaching of it; yet we don't see the consequences of it that we might have seen in the early church. I don't think that the Holy Spirit has changed in His attitude to these things. It is that He is not involved with the church as He should be, because of its self-reliance and man-directed programmes and orders of service which leave the Holy Spirit right outside the door!

If the church can be successful in discipling the nations for Christ through their man-designed programmes and orders of service and self-reliance, who needs the involvement of the Holy Spirit? The reality is that the church is most place is just a mere Christian 'club' that caters for its members, and has very little success at changing the community around it for Christ.

These churches pretend that the Holy Spirit is involved with them when he actually isn't anywhere near. This is the same as those who pretended the emperor had a new suit of clothes when in fact he had no clothes on at all.

There is a great difference between faith and presumption!

FutureAndAHope · Jul 23, 2019

Monksailor said:
Impulsive= acting or done without forethought.

Spontaneous= coming or resulting from a natural impulse or tendency; without effort or premeditation; natural and unconstrained; unplanned: a spontaneous burst of applause.

(of a person) given to acting upon sudden impulses.

(of natural phenomena) arising from internal forces or causes; independent of external agencies; self-acting.

-IMPULSE and WITH NO FORETHOUGHT seems to be the common thread here.-
How does one know which is which? All three usually exhibit great emotion. A well-placed "Amen!" during a sermon can be inspirational but others can be redundant and a distraction; even maddening. One time I was at a church which allowed impulsive bursts of someone jumping up and shouting indiscernible things right in the middle of a sermon for which there was no explanation or interpretation and sometimes 2 or 3 were doing this simultaneously. I got NOTHING out of anything which transpired as the sermon itself was so chopped up and distracted. 1 Corinthians 14 informs us that the spiritual gifts should be worked out in an orderly manner and even gives a "protocol" for such so by going by the definitions here it would seem that promptings of the Spirit would also be accompanied with an orderly expression thereof. What do you think? Sometimes that "Amen!" should be stifled or controlled by the individual as I think it is just a "look at me. I am so Spiritual" statement (vain glorification or babbling) more than anything else and a total distraction to the body of Christ. How can one make sure that it IS the Spirit prompting them and not an emotional attachment to the message creating the IMPULSE?

There are two extremes in this topic. 1) Allowing outbursts, that are not led by the Spirit, and 2) constraining the Spirit, by regulation and rules.

The first can occur in some Pentecostal churches (although me being a Pentecostal knows), it rarely occurs. It falls into various categories, a) a person is seeking a manifestation of the spirit too hard, and the flesh gets expression. i.e. the human will overrides the will of the Spirit. I know from experience that when I heard of laughing being a manifestation of the Spirit (whether it really is or is not is for another discussion), I wanted it to occur, I tried so hard to get it to occur, that I basically willed the experience to happen, and my experience was not of the Spirit of God, it was of my own will and emotions. The bible says "the flesh profits nothing, but the Spirit gives life". My laughing, would have added nothing to any meeting, for it was not of the Spirit, but of the flesh. b) Then there is demonic expression, used to distract. Some times when the Spirit of God is moving, be it in a sermon, or in healing etc, the devil will get weak willed people, or those who are sinning, to express wild emotions, with the purpose of discrediting or distracting from the ministry. As the bible says, all things should be done decently and in order", if things are getting out of order, the ministry team should be quick to clamp down.

Then there is the other extreme, being so regimented, and ordered that people are afraid to do or say anything.

I think it matters not, as there are various levels of freedom in churches, and people can choose what they feel best suits them. The thing we need to look at is not what manifestations occur in a church, for as I have stated the devil can hijack a church meeting with a manifestation, but rather what does the person leading the church actually teach, is it the gospel or something else.

Spontaneity and Impulsiveness or promptings of the Spirit?

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