How Free Will Turns the Gospel into Law and Grace into Works.

Grip Docility

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Because it’s not good. Remember, man hates the light.

Yet light can pierce even the darkest darkness. :) We were all like sheep, astray. We are all Godless reprobates illuminated by the light of the life giver. Without the light to shine from within us, we are darkness. We all hate the light, as we stumble away from it, in fear of it's beaming brightness on our unadjusted eyes.

Some are too afraid to be seen in their poverty and weave cloaks of lies that they are spiritually wealthy apart from the light. Some let the cares of this world captivate their eyes. But, some gather up the courage and humility to venture towards the light and answer the knock of He Who stands at the hearts door knocking.

Mankind is charged to open the door. :)
 
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Hammster

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Yet light can pierce even the darkest darkness. :) We were all like sheep, astray. We are all Godless reprobates illuminated by the light of the life giver. Without the light to shine from within us, we are darkness. We all hate the light, as we stumble away from it, in fear of it's beaming brightness on our unadjusted eyes.

Some are too afraid to be seen in their poverty and weave cloaks of lies that they are spiritually wealthy apart from the light. Some let the cares of this world captivate their eyes. But, some gather up the courage and humility to venture towards the light and answer the knock of He Who stands at the hearts door knocking.

Mankind is charged to open the door. :)
Of course light pierces darkness.

This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
— John 3:19

So do you have another point?
 
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Hammster

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But, some gather up the courage and humility to venture towards the light and answer the knock of He Who stands at the hearts door knocking.
No scripture says this. You are making things up.

Actually, your whole post was just a bunch of bits and pieces of scripture with no context that you threw together that sounds good, but is just a cloud with no water.
 
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Grip Docility

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No scripture says this. You are making things up.

Actually, your whole post was just a bunch of bits and pieces of scripture with no context that you threw together that sounds good, but is just a cloud with no water.

I appreciate that you took the time to express that you saw the scripture in what I said. Of course, I imagine that I could be wrong. I will consider your words carefully and ensure that I admire the conviction behind them.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, brother in Him.
 
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Grip Docility

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Of course light pierces darkness.

This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
— John 3:19

So do you have another point?

What point is there in a point? No man in contest gravitates towards the others perspective but instead clutches to their own. I want to take this time to share my appreciation to the time you’ve invested in this wonderful discussion that has spanned multiple threads.
 
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Hammster

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I appreciate that you took the time to express that you saw the scripture in what I said. Of course, I imagine that I could be wrong. I will consider your words carefully and ensure that I admire the conviction behind them.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, brother in Him.
It’s why I keep imploring you in various threads to not just give the scripture, but to explain how you see that it fits. It’s difficult to have a reasonable discussion without doing so.
 
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Hammster

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What point is there in a point? No man in contest gravitates towards the others perspective but instead clutches to their own. I want to take this time to share my appreciation to the time you’ve invested in this wonderful discussion that has spanned multiple threads.
I’m just hoping that at some point, you’ll engage in a discussion of ideas. ;)
 
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Grip Docility

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I’m just hoping that at some point, you’ll engage in a discussion of ideas. ;)

Dear brother, poverty is my reward for being an ace debater. I’m stepping full out into life and embracing the beauty of being able to understand others understanding and respecting them for what their convictions are... starting with you, my good friend.
 
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Grip Docility

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It’s why I keep imploring you in various threads to not just give the scripture, but to explain how you see that it fits. It’s difficult to have a reasonable discussion without doing so.

And... you do so, well.
 
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Hammster

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Dear brother, poverty is my reward for being an ace debater. I’m stepping full out into life and embracing the beauty of being able to understand others understanding and respecting them for what their convictions are... starting with you, my good friend.
Grip: this is what I believe

Hamm: why?

Grip:

Hamm: ????

^_^
 
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Stephen Douglas

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That's right back to John 3 -- whether they prefer to come into the light, or not, by personal choice.

I tried to read most of the posts in this thread and the focus is all over the place which always causes some measure of confusion. Also, I have attempted to keep a very narrow focus for the sake of simplicity and comprehension. Yet, my direct question always invokes a response similar to the one above.

Some prefer the light while others do not because their deeds are wicked. But if there is none good, if there is no one who seeks after God and His light, how and why did some seek while most did not?

This question deals with a man’s inner desire which is continually wicked (Jeremiah 17:9) and also prideful. Some folks today have been nurtured into the faith by their loving families and churches. Some folks grew up within Muslim or Buddhist societies. Other folks were emotionally and physically abused by their own fathers and will naturally respond to “The Lord your God is a jealous God” (Exodus 34:14) in their own way based on their experience.

If your response to my questions pertains to the “free will” of man, you haven’t thought about the questions. It may be easy to flood the posts with scripture passages that don’t address the issue but confusion only helps you make your case but it is obviously not attempting to discover God’s truth. If there are some people who desire to come into the light, there is good reason for it. That reason cannot rationally be that they don’t allow their pride to get in the way. Sure, that goes without saying. But that isn’t answering the question.

Is God’s calling effective? Does anything change when God calls and the calling falls on the good soil? Where did the good soil come from? Some have ears to hear? Only His sheep hear His voice? Why don’t we all have the exact same conditioning, disposition and bent toward, not only believing in the biblical Christ but also loving Him?

If God does not intervene in the heart of His predestined children He shows a disinterest in His crown jewel of creation. Leaving justification up to chance is, in a sense, showing favoritism toward those who were nurtured to love and care and believe. You can’t expect those who are spiritually DEAD
in their sinfulness to miraculously desire the light unless a miraculous and divine work has been done upon their deep desires of the heart.

If there is any direct and understandable explanation for this transformation from a carnal condition of disdain for God to one of love for Him, other than what I have stated, I would love to hear it. But please don’t respond that some people are more prideful than others because that does NOT answer my question.

Doug
 
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Grip Docility

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Grip: this is what I believe

Hamm: why?

Grip:

Hamm: ????

^_^

Hamm, Even in my most docile Of disagreements, I’ve managed to undermine many parties through Exegesis, Exposition and logical rhetoric.

I’m getting to the place that I’m tired of being right and more desiring to facilitate search with others that affirms their hearts and minds.

I’m growing into a facilitator and falling away from being generally disagreeable.

This is a miracle. It is also an answer to a very important prayer I prayed this month.

- Grip

Disclaimer: Humorous subtext and humble bragging added for entertainment.
 
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Hammster

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Hamm, Even in my most docile Of disagreements, I’ve managed to undermine many parties through Exegesis, Exposition and logical rhetoric.

I’m getting to the place that I’m tired of being right and more desiring to facilitate search with others that affirms their hearts and minds.

I’m growing into a facilitator and falling away from being generally disagreeable.

This is a miracle. It is also an answer to a very important prayer I prayed this month.

- Grip

Disclaimer: Humorous subtext and humble bragging added for entertainment.
We can debate and discuss without being bitter or insulting. It’s okay to say “this is what I believe and why I believe it.”

What if you are, indeed, correct? Why keep that truth to yourself? Why not show everyone how you arrived at the conclusion? If you aren’t going to do that, what’s the point of posting at all?
 
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Grip Docility

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We can debate and discuss without being bitter or insulting. It’s okay to say “this is what I believe and why I believe it.”

What if you are, indeed, correct? Why keep that truth to yourself? Why not show everyone how you arrived at the conclusion? If you aren’t going to do that, what’s the point of posting at all?

This is an excellent proposal. I will have to consider it prayerfully.
 
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Halbhh

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Hamm, Even in my most docile Of disagreements, I’ve managed to undermine many parties through Exegesis, Exposition and logical rhetoric.

I’m getting to the place that I’m tired of being right and more desiring to facilitate search with others that affirms their hearts and minds.

I’m growing into a facilitator and falling away from being generally disagreeable.

This is a miracle. It is also an answer to a very important prayer I prayed this month.

- Grip

Disclaimer: Humorous subtext and humble bragging added for entertainment.
It's such a good thing to respond to personal put downs against us with just kindness, and it's becoming unusually mature and having Christ in us that allows us to do so I think. For me, I need the aid I get after I pray the Lord's prayer. That I can know someone's animus shows they need help, this knowing is not enough sometimes, and instead I need His help.

Christ said to pray for those that despitefully use us. I should do this more.
 
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Hammster

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It's such a good thing to respond to personal put downs against us with just kindness, and it's becoming unusually mature and having Christ in us that allows us to do so I think. For me, I need the aid I get after I pray the Lord's prayer. That I can know someone's animus shows they need help, this knowing is not enough sometimes, and instead I need His help.

Christ said to pray for those that despitefully use us. I should do this more.
It wasn’t a put down, by the way. Just having some fun with him. Notice how he rated my post.
 
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Halbhh

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It wasn’t a put down, by the way. Just having some fun with him. Notice how he rated my post.
Not you -- I was talking generally, for all threads, all times. I should write more on this. :)
 
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Grip Docility

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It's such a good thing to respond to personal put downs against us with just kindness, and it's becoming unusually mature and having Christ in us that allows us to do so I think. For me, I need the aid I get after I pray the Lord's prayer. That I can know someone's animus shows they need help, this knowing is not enough sometimes, and instead I need His help.

Christ said to pray for those that despitefully use us. I should do this more.

It wasn’t a put down, by the way. Just having some fun with him. Notice how he rated my post.

Hamm is witnessing a transformation in me. I’ve been fairly difficult towards him. He’s actually assisting me in my journey and has been. He and I remain two sides to a coin.

Halbhh,

I always enjoy your input, as well. I’m taking an unexpected zig towards a bow out of debate. I enjoy debate and see its enormous value, but I’m headed into a place where I’m going to have to leave that part of me behind.
 
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bling

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God must be in control of all things, otherwise the kingdom of God would not survive, prosper. and reach its full potential. God has many enemies, and none of them are like Him, He overcame them all.
So His judgments stand and can not be thrown down.
We also must overcome the world by our God given and enabled faith, because God requires us to also overcome the world.
If an all Loving and all-powerful God was “controlling” everything it would be more like heaven.

This world is perfect and looks exactly like the world needed for willing mature adults to fulfill the earthly objective of obtaining the very unique Godly type Love (requiring a free will choice) and growing that Love.

God is controlling down to the detail everything needed to allow mature adults to have the opportunity to make needed autonomous free will choices.

God judges fairly and justly based on your heart decision.
 
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