The "poverty" Gospel vs The "prosperity" Gospel

DeepWater

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1. ) Poverty has already destroyed more people's lives, then "riches" ever will.



2. ) "Poverty is the destruction of the Poor". says your Bible. not their BLESSING. !



So, here is the reality. If you have an issue with "riches", theologically speaking, then more then likely........ you are. 1.) offended, as i am, by the teachers of "prosperity gospel". And in fact, you should be wary of this teaching, because it CAN create you to see God as your bank in a way that causes you to have a greedy and fleshy heart/spirituality. This is the issue with the teaching, in that, it creates spiritual greed, if its it preached out of balance. And the way you preach this message out of balance, is to ONLY PREACH ABOUT MONEY and PROSPERITY< as if the entire reason for the Bible and for God and for Christianity, is to be a blessing to you.

But, prosperity, is fine. Being Rich is fine. Money, is fine. The issue with money is not the money, its the person. If a person can't deal with having money, then the person is the problem, not the money.

There are people who teach that poverty is a proof of spirituality. And in fact poverty is a proof you are miserable and living in slow torture, if you are truly poor on this earth. There is no heavenly blessing being given to someone who can't eat normally, can't sleep in their own home, who is living on the street in the summer and winter. So, the "poverty gospel" is just as spiritually perverted as the overuse of the "prosperity gospel".

God does not want his children, sick, broke, and suffering. Would you want your children to be sick, broke, and suffering? Do you think you get this innate protective sense about your children from Satan? No, the reason you want the BEST and ONLY the BEST for your children, is because this is the Nature of God, who only wants the best for His Children.

Listen, did God send you His 2nd best Son, or did He send you His Only Begotten Son?

So, if someone is (preaching - teaching) condemning riches, then that person is not theologically balanced, probably has a bit of a martyr complex, and you should not listen to them for 5 seconds. The reality is, Money matters. It is necessary for life, for survival, and for more. Money, in your life, having it, has the same effect as oil in a car engine. And thats a fact. God has no issue with you having money, and you being prosperous. The ISSUE is, if your money and your prosperity is the center of your LOVE, the center of your Heart and Ambiton. And in that case, YOU are the problem, and not the money or the prosperity.
 
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Theophilus2019

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This is an old question. In the New Testament some Christians are obviously rich, owned slaves etc. God never condemns riches per se. It’s always injustice, the craving for riches and the reliance on riches that God condemns. It isn’t always just and right to give to the poor, because some poor people, frankly, deserve to be poor.

There is a great tendency to work up “first world guilt” by comparing the wealth of us in the north and west with the poverty of the south and east. But if you’ve ever been to for example India and seen the poor living in shacks by the side of the road, and next to them the BMW’s and Mercedes of the rich Indians, or if you see the corruption in Africa, you will soon lose any guilt feelings about being a rich (Christian) westerner in a world of poverty.
 
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bèlla

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I don’t adhere to prosperity gospel teachings. I’m the beneficiary of a familial perspective regarding work and financial discipline. We live within our means and never worry about unexpected expenses. There’s always something in our coffers.

Due to my background in finance and biblical convictions. I’ve impressed the necessity of financial independence and autonomy. We’re creating a legacy of entrepreneurship and no debt.

When we exercise bible stewardship and make ourselves available to Him. He turns our little into plenty for His use and glory.
 
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DeepWater

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This is an old question. In the New Testament some Christians are obviously rich, owned slaves etc. God never condemns riches per se. It’s always injustice, the craving for riches and the reliance on riches that God condemns. It isn’t always just and right to give to the poor, because some poor people, frankly, deserve to be poor.

There is a great tendency to work up “first world guilt” by comparing the wealth of us in the north and west with the poverty of the south and east. But if you’ve ever been to for example India and seen the poor living in shacks by the side of the road, and next to them the BMW’s and Mercedes of the rich Indians, or if you see the corruption in Africa, you will soon lose any guilt feelings about being a rich (Christian) westerner in a world of poverty.

People who are more religious then saved, want to demote all believers to the level of living in a ditch and eating out of dumpsters, so that St Francis can smile on us from a cloud, up above. :)
Many Christian forums are full of these martyr complex types that equate prosperity with the devil, and sick, poor, and suffering, as "the will of God". or, "real spirituality".

If i might be quite harsh, in love, so as to rebuke someone sharply who is reading this, and there will be many...... who wants to argue that God wants you to have cancer and starvation, so that you can learn how to have faith....or something equally Theologically Satanic....i must tell you that the lier who is teaching you this theological trash, is the devil, and if its a family member, your pastor, or your favorite bible commentary...then they are harming you, robbing you, abusing yoiu, and keeping you from what God's will would be for you.

Here is something ive noticed about people who are poor and broke. They dont sleep well. They dont eat well. The are weak and often sick. They are bitter and angry and frustrated. And most of all, they spend all their time trying to get OUT of this mess, this hurt, this slow min by min torture. And when you are in this place in life, you have no time to serve God, as you are too busy every second trying to SURVIVE.

"poverty is the destruction of the poor"......is NOT a mistranslation of the "original greek".

Wealth and prosperity is allowed and given by God, so that you can take care of your family, and also be a continual channel to bless others, = as well as being blessed yourself.
Its all of this....

God would always treat you, exactly as you would want your own Children to be treated, and if you are not being led to realize this and Love God even more because He is like this, then you are not in a theological situation that you need to be in, and you are in fact, in a bad situation.
Get away from any and all who would lead you to believe that being poor is to be spiritual.
 
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RaymondG

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Woe to the rich; blessed are the poor. It's a generality. There's always exceptions. And a wide spectrum of people are both rich or poor. But the generality is still in place.
Blessed are the poor in spirit....not the poor on the earth. This idea is not wise....as we would not want people to stop helping the poor because they are blessed, or to not stop them from remaining blessed.
 
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DeepWater

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Woe to the rich; blessed are the poor. It's a generality. There's always exceptions. And a wide spectrum of people are both rich or poor. But the generality is still in place.

Thats a twisting of the scripture to prove God wants some people to live in miserable poverty, after He shed the blood of Jesus for them.
So, your generality, is religion, that is based on the martyr's complex idea that suffering makes you more godly. And in fact, suffering, makes you bitter and miserable. And God is not the author of this as the lifestyle of a born again Son or Daughter.

I can give you this generality....>"It is God who gives you the power to create wealth". You can look that up in your Old Testament.

I can tell you this. God wants you to give to the poor, and not because He created the poor to be poor, but because when you Give, you are most like God., and to be a "practicing christian", and a disciple of Christ is to always be in the work of the Love of God and that is simply to be a giver., as this is exactly what God is....>He's a giver........Love Gives........God is Love.

And i can tell you this.. You are told to give to the poor, and you are told to Tithe, and you are told to give Offerings. You are told that if you see someone who is impoverished, you are to help them.
So, what does this tell you?
It tells you that If God didn't expect you to have money, He would not be telling you to Give, Tithe and Offer.........money.
See it? Is anything more obvious or more clear?

He would be pretty stupid to expect you to do what he says, and give and tithe and offer, MONEY< if you dont have any. !
So, is God stupid, OR... is the theology of the {poverty gospel) in fact not only stupid, but its a rebuke of the Nature of God, and is indeed Satanic theology.
Dont use it.
Dont preach it.
Dont teach it.
Dont believe it.
 
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Blade

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"prosperity gospel" <---is this the words they use? No..its used by people that LOVE JESUS! Its used to put them, them being people that believe Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sins and was buried. Rose the 3rd day and is the only way to the Father. Puts them in a dark light.

Its mans made up words. There is no such thing. People of God take what the word says and stand on it. They believe the word. Its not how I would want to be treated. I agree with allot of what you said. But it MUST be backed up by the word. So many believers as we can read have this idea we are to be poor or Jesus was poor. Its a teaching. And when FAITH is added to it. You get what you believe.

Its not how or what some GROUP believes. Its what is written. I can find believer, Churchs that believes in healing and the same that don't. Its not what we personal believe and teach. Its what the WORD teaches us/tells us. People wonder if God hears you. Will He answer? Even though we read He answers us before we finish praying. Or HE always hears the righteous.To known HE hears you then you know you have what you prayed/petitioned for. So many don't understand the "if you know". He ALWAYS hears you. Prosperity is the same. Its in the word.

I know how some teach and some of it is sound. Its based on the word. Its not on how I feel what I see around me. God does not act based on "well so and so said, what happen to so and so". thats not Gods word. Thats based on what we see hear and feel not faith. So how someone LIVES or whatever. I am not there God. They don't answer to me. And what they do is not based on how I personally believe GODS word..GODS WORD not mine. Were always looking at others...how they LIVE how they BELIEVE and then we judge.

So show what GOD, HIS word says about prosperity.
 
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bèlla

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Oftentimes those with wealth enjoy funding causes near to their heart. But the negative associations and frequent derision would hasten many from supporting Christian organizations. Careless words have a price.
 
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Blessed are the poor in spirit....not the poor on the earth. This idea is not wise....as we would not want people to stop helping the poor because they are blessed, or to not stop them from remaining blessed.
It also says blessed are the poor.
 
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section9+1

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Thats a twisting of the scripture to prove God wants some people to live in miserable poverty, after He shed the blood of Jesus for them.
So, your generality, is religion, that is based on the martyr's complex idea that suffering makes you more godly. And in fact, suffering, makes you bitter and miserable. And God is not the author of this as the lifestyle of a born again Son or Daughter.

I can give you this generality....>"It is God who gives you the power to create wealth". You can look that up in your Old Testament.

I can tell you this. God wants you to give to the poor, and not because He created the poor to be poor, but because when you Give, you are most like God., and to be a "practicing christian", and a disciple of Christ is to always be in the work of the Love of God and that is simply to be a giver., as this is exactly what God is....>He's a giver........Love Gives........God is Love.

And i can tell you this.. You are told to give to the poor, and you are told to Tithe, and you are told to give Offerings. You are told that if you see someone who is impoverished, you are to help them.
So, what does this tell you?
It tells you that If God didn't expect you to have money, He would not be telling you to Give, Tithe and Offer.........money.
See it? Is anything more obvious or more clear?

He would be pretty stupid to expect you to do what he says, and give and tithe and offer, MONEY< if you dont have any. !
So, is God stupid, OR... is the theology of the {poverty gospel) in fact not only stupid, but its a rebuke of the Nature of God, and is indeed Satanic theology.
Dont use it.
Dont preach it.
Dont teach it.
Dont believe it.
My goodness, people get offended when scripture is quoted. I am not promoting a poverty gospel. I wish I had more money, myself. Yet God does spend a lot of scripture defending the poor. James says God has chosen the poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of his kingdom. It's just scripture. And he also says the rich on the whole are in trouble. It doesn't mean if you are poor you are holy and vice-versa, but it is a commentary on wealth and poverty. Just deal honestly with it.
 
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Julian of Norwich

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I am poor. I live on less than $1200/mo. SS. Since I have been poor I am much, much more compassionate to others, both those poverty stricken, those on addictive substances, those who've been hurt by others, those with mental health problems, etc. It has made a huge impact on my perspective! And I'm not alone. There are many homeless people who, being given some money (no matter how much) by ethical ways will first gladly share their $ with other homeless people. I don't know if I could do that. I hope so!
I use to be "comfortable" and not even think of those worse off than me. It's not that I was mean, just that I didn't think about them. Now I think of those poor people all the time. So His lesson has been helpful.
 
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1. ) Poverty has already destroyed more people's lives, then "riches" ever will.



2. ) "Poverty is the destruction of the Poor". says your Bible. not their BLESSING. !



So, here is the reality. If you have an issue with "riches", theologically speaking, then more then likely........ you are. 1.) offended, as i am, by the teachers of "prosperity gospel". And in fact, you should be wary of this teaching, because it CAN create you to see God as your bank in a way that causes you to have a greedy and fleshy heart/spirituality. This is the issue with the teaching, in that, it creates spiritual greed, if its it preached out of balance. And the way you preach this message out of balance, is to ONLY PREACH ABOUT MONEY and PROSPERITY< as if the entire reason for the Bible and for God and for Christianity, is to be a blessing to you.

But, prosperity, is fine. Being Rich is fine. Money, is fine. The issue with money is not the money, its the person. If a person can't deal with having money, then the person is the problem, not the money.

There are people who teach that poverty is a proof of spirituality. And in fact poverty is a proof you are miserable and living in slow torture, if you are truly poor on this earth. There is no heavenly blessing being given to someone who can't eat normally, can't sleep in their own home, who is living on the street in the summer and winter. So, the "poverty gospel" is just as spiritually perverted as the overuse of the "prosperity gospel".

God does not want his children, sick, broke, and suffering. Would you want your children to be sick, broke, and suffering? Do you think you get this innate protective sense about your children from Satan? No, the reason you want the BEST and ONLY the BEST for your children, is because this is the Nature of God, who only wants the best for His Children.

Listen, did God send you His 2nd best Son, or did He send you His Only Begotten Son?

So, if someone is (preaching - teaching) condemning riches, then that person is not theologically balanced, probably has a bit of a martyr complex, and you should not listen to them for 5 seconds. The reality is, Money matters. It is necessary for life, for survival, and for more. Money, in your life, having it, has the same effect as oil in a car engine. And thats a fact. God has no issue with you having money, and you being prosperous. The ISSUE is, if your money and your prosperity is the center of your LOVE, the center of your Heart and Ambiton. And in that case, YOU are the problem, and not the money or the prosperity.


There is only one issue in our entire lives. It's a binary, either yes or no. There is no in between.

Against/for. Gather/scatter. God/mammon.

Luke 11
23"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters.

Luke 14
33In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

1 Corinthians 7
35This I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord.

The greatest command is to love God, “secure undistracted devotion to the Lord”. We can make many mistakes about theology, but we can never go wrong if we obey this command. God is love, and He desires that we love Him. Since loving Him involves being loving in all our actions, when we show love to others we are definitely obeying Him. Again a clearer description of loving others, the best thing we can do in this task, is to convince others to follow God: gathering.

The narrowing of the focus is this:

Love God>shown by loving those made in His image>shown by gathering like Moses whose name was written in the Book of Life>shown by picking up our crosses>resulting in people like Rahab turning to God.

Luke 10
20However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.


When people surrendered all their dependence on the world, shown by laying down their resources at Peter’s feet, other people were convinced to turn to God, because they saw God’s great works in resurrecting those (protecting them from the rebuke of the crowd, by answering their prayers) who picked up their cross.

This is the Way. We are missing the whole point of the Gospel if we do not understand the Way.
 
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There are people who teach that poverty is a proof of spirituality. And in fact poverty is a proof you are miserable and living in slow torture, if you are truly poor on this earth. There is no heavenly blessing being given to someone who can't eat normally, can't sleep in their own home, who is living on the street in the summer and winter. So, the "poverty gospel" is just as spiritually perverted as the overuse of the "prosperity gospel".

1. It depends how you define poverty. Compared to a pop star/celebrity, I am poor; compared with millions of people, I am rich.
2. I have never heard of anyone preaching a 'poverty Gospel' - don't even know if there is such a thing.

God does not want his children, sick, broke, and suffering.

God cares about every area of our lives, but our material comfort, and health, here, in this temporary world, is not his chief concern. He wants us to know him, be born again, receive Jesus and know that we have every spiritual blessing in Christ, Ephesians 1:3.
Not everyone suffers in poverty. Some people, like St Francis and Mother Teresa, deliberately renounced everything to work among the poor; other Christians live simply and by faith; trusting God to provide everything.

Would you want your children to be sick, broke, and suffering? Do you think you get this innate protective sense about your children from Satan? No, the reason you want the BEST and ONLY the BEST for your children, is because this is the Nature of God, who only wants the best for His Children.

God's best for us does not necessarily mean a big house, lots of cash and possessions and perfect health. That's what WE think is best for us, and some people project that onto God and assume he wants it too.

Listen, did God send you His 2nd best Son,

He hasn't got a 2nd best Son.

So, if someone is (preaching - teaching) condemning riches, then that person is not theologically balanced, probably has a bit of a martyr complex, and you should not listen to them for 5 seconds.

Not necessarily.
Jesus taught that it is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven. He taught that a man who was satisfied and believed he had everything, was a fool and would have his life taken from him. He commended a poor widow whose small coin would have made no difference to the temple treasury, and did not commend those who gave much.
Solomon, who was himself a very rich man, condemned riches, Ecclesiastes 5:10.

Money is fine, UNTIL it either becomes an idol, makes us greedy, stops us from doing good to others or we trust in it rather than in God.

The reality is, Money matters. It is necessary for life, for survival, and for more.

Here in the materialistic West; yes.
We are trapped by our possessions and by technology. A computer is no longer a luxury - in fact those who don't have one are sometimes slightly pitied or thought out of touch. Kids may have once had one to enable them to do school stuff, just as they may have been given a phone to keep them safe and stay in touch with their parents. But all that has just lead to wanting the biggest/best/latest model, and their parents are the ones who have to pay for them. Ditto television, computer games, the latest toys, football shirts etc etc.
Money is not necessary for life; God gives life, not the bank manager.
Yes of course we need to buy food and clothes and have shelter; having SOME money is useful. But I'm sure that many of us have grandparents/older relatives who can tell stories of wearing 'hand-me-downs', sleeping 2 or 3 in one bed, having rations during the war etc; people who led full, interesting and useful lives before the computer, telephone or television, was invented.

Money, in your life, having it, has the same effect as oil in a car engine.

Some money, maybe; but it's not everything.
Like I said, millions of people have lived before us, without having a fraction of the stuff that we take for granted today. Sure, they no doubt had SOME money - but I've no doubt that many of us would consider them to have been poor/deprived. Yet look at all the things that they did.

Cars, today, are taken for granted; yet not all of us even have one. (O.k, my husband does, but I don't drive.) Many manage perfectly well without one.

God has no issue with you having money, and you being prosperous. The ISSUE is, if your money and your prosperity is the center of your LOVE, the center of your Heart and Ambiton. And in that case, YOU are the problem, and not the money or the prosperity.

Agreed.
But neither does he frown on you if you are poor. His "best for you" might be to provide a car - not a top of the range Rolls Royce. He can provide clothes - but not necessarily designer labels - and shelter - but not necessarily a mansion, or 2 or 3 houses.
 
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Under the law, poverty is a curse and prosperity is a blessing

Under grace it seems many people reverse the above
God did a strange thing when Isreal left Egypt : He kept doing miracles, although Pharoah did not have to be forced any longer to let God's people go. In fact, another strange fact is that God created a crisis, and then saved. He made food scarce, and then fed bread from heaven.This is how Joshua and Caleb were exposed to the power of God and were born again, stopped worrying about themselves. But a million other Israelites who were baptised by the cloud and the water into the same nourishment did not benefit from eating this spiritual bread, the lesson did not take root, and their bones were scattered in the wilderness, when God sent leanness into their lives.

The great works that God did, which Israel did not keep in their hearts, impressed even those not called. Rahab heard and turned to follow God.

Poverty is only one way of picking up the cross, so that when God saves, people are gathered. Those who pick up their cross are like Moses, whose name was written in the book of life for gathering God's lost sheep.

Luke 10
20Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.
 
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1. ) Poverty has already destroyed more people's lives, then "riches" ever will.



2. ) "Poverty is the destruction of the Poor". says your Bible. not their BLESSING. !



So, here is the reality. If you have an issue with "riches", theologically speaking, then more then likely........ you are. 1.) offended, as i am, by the teachers of "prosperity gospel". And in fact, you should be wary of this teaching, because it CAN create you to see God as your bank in a way that causes you to have a greedy and fleshy heart/spirituality. This is the issue with the teaching, in that, it creates spiritual greed, if its it preached out of balance. And the way you preach this message out of balance, is to ONLY PREACH ABOUT MONEY and PROSPERITY< as if the entire reason for the Bible and for God and for Christianity, is to be a blessing to you.

But, prosperity, is fine. Being Rich is fine. Money, is fine. The issue with money is not the money, its the person. If a person can't deal with having money, then the person is the problem, not the money.

There are people who teach that poverty is a proof of spirituality. And in fact poverty is a proof you are miserable and living in slow torture, if you are truly poor on this earth. There is no heavenly blessing being given to someone who can't eat normally, can't sleep in their own home, who is living on the street in the summer and winter. So, the "poverty gospel" is just as spiritually perverted as the overuse of the "prosperity gospel".

God does not want his children, sick, broke, and suffering. Would you want your children to be sick, broke, and suffering? Do you think you get this innate protective sense about your children from Satan? No, the reason you want the BEST and ONLY the BEST for your children, is because this is the Nature of God, who only wants the best for His Children.

Listen, did God send you His 2nd best Son, or did He send you His Only Begotten Son?

So, if someone is (preaching - teaching) condemning riches, then that person is not theologically balanced, probably has a bit of a martyr complex, and you should not listen to them for 5 seconds. The reality is, Money matters. It is necessary for life, for survival, and for more. Money, in your life, having it, has the same effect as oil in a car engine. And thats a fact. God has no issue with you having money, and you being prosperous. The ISSUE is, if your money and your prosperity is the center of your LOVE, the center of your Heart and Ambiton. And in that case, YOU are the problem, and not the money or the prosperity.
You asked: “Would you want your children to be sick, broke, and suffering?”

If some of my children are privileged and honored to do the same work as Lazarus in the Rich man and Lazarus, I would be happy for them.

We all go through this world with problems, if you do not have “problems” you must be tripping over a Lazarus every day and do not realize it.

I want my children to go to heaven in the end, so this short time on earth is only needed to accomplish our earthly objective, which takes very little if any money.

We can be in pain, suffering severe persecution, be poor, be lonely, and be hurting, but it is how we handle the loneliness, hurt, pain, persecution and poverty that counts.

Does wealth, health, and a “good” life help us spread the gospel? There are estimated to be 100 million members of the unregister church in China, which grow virtually without money (no paid positions for the most part and only small house churches). So, how does that compare with the USA in the last 40 years?

You may do just wonderful with your money, but how about your kids?

I’ll stop there.
 
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Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
Yes it does, if you leave off the end of the verse.

Oh? What of Luke 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed [are] ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
 
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