Got a word from the Lord that didn't (yet?) come true.

CharismaticLady · Jul 20, 2019

aiki said:
??? Hate? There is no hate in my words. Skepticism, yes. Lots of skepticism. But no hate.

I have found that Christians often grow very murky - and unbiblical - in their thinking concerning how God communicates His will to them. For some believers, discerning God's will borders on superstition. They are often guilty of assuming that correlation equals causation, that is, that the proximity of two events in time automatically means they are related in some causal sort of way. There is also often no objective way of distinguishing between the believer's own inner voice and the voice they claim is God's. And the fact that Satan may counterfeit God's leading is dismissed by the idea that if what is thought to be God's leading doesn't contradict Scripture, then it can't possibly be a devilish counterfeit. Never mind that the devil is a master of manipulating Scripture, of bending, and redacting, and misapplying it to make his lies seem like God's own truth.

For these and other reasons, then, I'm very skeptical of the "God told me" declarations Christians are wont to make. Too often, the rationale for their claim boils down to "I just know," which rationale they would immediately - and rightly - reject if, say, an atheist used it in defense of his belief that God doesn't exist.

If the phone rings, most people know their father or mothers voice without them having to tell you who it is. You recognize the voice. That is how I KNOW.

John 10:27
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

aiki · Jul 20, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
If the phone rings, most people know their father or mothers voice without them having to tell you who it is. You recognize the voice. That is how I KNOW.

John 10:27
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

This is the typical answer I get from folks who think as you do. It is, essentially, what I said it would be: "I just know." Again, this would not be an acceptable answer from an atheist justifying his atheism. Why, then, is it okay for you to resort to such a poor answer?

Also, John 10:27 isn't talking about God speaking in someone's head. Jesus is referring quite literally to the words he is speaking to his audience and the reaction of those who hear them, and believe them (see verses 25 and 26), and follow him. It is par for the course, however, for those who think as you do to contort Scripture to fit your belief. I get the feeling I'm seeing only the tip of the iceberg, though...

CharismaticLady · Jul 20, 2019

aiki said:
This is the typical answer I get from folks who think as you do. It is, essentially, what I said it would be: "I just know." Again, this would not be an acceptable answer from an atheist justifying his atheism. Why, then, is it okay for you to resort to such a poor answer?

Also, John 10:27 isn't talking about God speaking in someone's head. Jesus is referring quite literally to the words he is speaking to his audience and the reaction of those who hear them, and believe them (see verses 25 and 26), and follow him. It is par for the course, however, for those who think as you do to contort Scripture to fit your belief. I get the feeling I'm seeing only the tip of the iceberg, though...

How do you explain that everything He told me has come to pass. I know you are full of unbelief and believe me you don't have to worry about being able to hear a voice. But my life has taken a dramatic change ever since I was born again of the Spirit, and God started then to give me gifts.

aiki · Jul 20, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
How do you explain that everything He told me has come to pass.

I don't know that it has. I can only take your word for it that it has. I don't, then, see why I should have to explain phenomena you claim to have had.

I am not "full of unbelief," only of skepticism about your claims. I have no doubts about God and His many promises to me, but your ideas about God talking to you in your head, and about a prophetic "word from the Lord" are, as far as I can see, both unbiblical and irrational. I hear from God every time I open my Bible. What need, then, of a voice in my head that can't be readily and objectively distinguished from my own inner voice, that could very easily be a demonic counterfeit, and that ends up having to be verified against Scripture in the end anyway.

I'm glad to know God has made positive change in your life and that He has gifted you to serve Him. I hope you do so with greater and greater commitment to God's will given to you in His word, the Bible.

D.A. Wright · Jul 20, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Is there really a scripture where the Jews said that? I don't recall, but I'd like to see it.

It seems doubtful to me that you are unaware that there is no scripture that says that verbatim. Do you actually deny it to be the case?

D.A. Wright · Jul 20, 2019

RaymondG said:
The letter killeth. We can take any verse and make it seem to agree with what we already believe. So quoting scripture is not always that helpful.

Do you not agree that Jesus made statements that seem to be out side of the scriptures that the masters of the scriptures read at that time? Did they not call jesus a blasphemer who also broke the law?

Yes we say Jesus was in line with scripture but the religious just wasn't aware of it.....to their destruction.... People will say the same about us 2000 years from now. Nothing new under the sun.

Brother Raymond, you are absolutely on a roll! (Forgive me if I'm too flattering)

CharismaticLady · Jul 20, 2019

aiki said:
both unbiblical and irrational

It is neither.

CharismaticLady · Jul 20, 2019

David Wright said:
It seems doubtful to me that you are unaware that there is no scripture that says that verbatim. Do you actually deny it to be the case?

You do remember saying that there was don't you, so why say that, as if I was crazy to believe you? I was interested; now I will question everything you say.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 20, 2019

RaymondG said:
2000 years ago, a group of religious people said "there are no new revelations outside the written word of God"............And then crucified our Lord.

Bill Johnson and Kenneth Copeland will accept you as one of them!

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 20, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Was the guy who bullied you still there?

Yep. I made peace with him which was the Scriptural thing to do, and he was the one who preached last Sunday. I'm sure that the Holy Spirit orchestrated his sermon to show me what He can do with even a person I disagree with. Making peace with him doesn't mean that I agree with him. However, I did not rejoin the leadership team. I've done my bit after 18 years. I'm happy to sit on the back row with the backsliders and just enjoy the fellowship.

Aabbie James · Jul 20, 2019

zoidar said:
For many years I have been struggeling with something. At a Christian festival as I sat among the people thinking about this problem an older woman (I never seen before) a few seats away started profetizing with a loud voice. It was like she was talking directly to me, starting with "So says the Lord..." and continuing with describing my problem and ending with that I didn't have to worry and that God would help me.

This is maybe five years ago and still the prophecy hasn't come true. Now I wonder why. Is it because I doubted in God's promise or because of personal sins, or maybe something else? Maybe more important, is the prophecy still valid or do think God has taken it back?

Can you be more specific on exactly what Christian Advice you are asking for? From what I understand in your original post, you have multiple compound questions, and they all appear to be of the yes/no variety:

Has the prophecy not come true because I doubted God's promise?
Has the prophecy not come true because of personal sins?
Has the prophecy not come true because of something else?
Is the prophecy sill valid?
Do you think God has taken it [the prophecy] back?

My Christian advice is don't dwell on matters, as you put it, [an older Christian festival woman, whom you've never seen before, sitting a few seats away from you, "prophesied" loudly to you, five years ago]. Instead, cast all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you. (1 Peter 5:7)

And then there's this: 1 John 4:1

There's always the "Spiritual Gifts" and "Sign Gifts" forum too...

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 20, 2019

aiki said:
Yes, I think He does, too.
So, what does the Bible tell me the Holy Spirit will do in my mind and heart? Scripture tells me that the Spirit convicts me (John 16:8), illuminates my mind to God's truth (John 16:13), puts to death the deeds of my flesh (Romans 8:13), works in me both the ability and desire to do God's will (Philippians 2:13), produces the "peaceable fruit of righteousness" (love, joy, peace, etc.) in me (Galatians 5:22-23), leads me (Romans 8:14), and bears witness with my spirit that I am God's child (Romans 8:16).

Does the performance of these things in my life by the Spirit require Him "speaking" to me in the way you've described above? I certainly think He acts upon my mind and heart, conforming me to Christ in my thought-life and desires. I'm not sure this is always or even mostly a transformation of which I am conscious, however. In any case, I don't expect or look for leading or instruction from God in the form of inner impressions or "voices." I have His word that Paul the apostle has written is entirely sufficient to communicate to me God's truth and will for me (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

It strikes me as...odd when a believer tells me he has an inner leading from God (whatever that may mean) but then discerns the truth of it by resorting to Scripture. Why not simply operate from Scripture all the time? Why this desire to "hear God's voice" when it is already speaking in the pages of the Bible? Forget divine voices in my head; I'll just do what I know God has told me in His word to do.

Where in Scripture do you read what the Holy Spirit told you about prayer and hearing His voice? I can think of no place where such a rule is communicated.

I memorize Scripture because God tells me in His word to do so (Psalms 119:11; Proverbs 3:3), because I always need it ready at hand in the daily fight I'm in against the World, my own flesh and the devil (Ephesians 6:17b; Matthew 4:1-4), and because it nourishes my soul (Jeremiah 15:16; Psalms 19:7-11; 1 Peter 2:2) and lights my way (Psalms 119:105). In light of all Scripture can do - and does - for me, I see little use for a divine "voice in my head."

I do, though, believe God brings certain verses or passages to my mind at times when I have needed Him to do so. In fact, I believe that if God speaks to my mind in any way, it is in this way - which is another reason why a thorough knowledge of His word is absolutely vital to my walk with Him.

I agree that God may guide one's thoughts, ordering them along a line that brings them to His truth. But, again, this is, in my experience anyway, a subtle, natural thing that doesn't involve a "voice in my head."
Amen.

It is actually quite difficult to clearly define exactly how God speaks to my heart, but when He does, I seem to know. All the words that I can muster up to try and describe it seem to point to some kind of sensory input, but that could be misleading because it is not a matter of "sensing" anything (which tends more to psychic phenomena).

The closest I can come to it is on the basis of the verse: "But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil" (Hebrews 5:14). It was like when I first "met" the Lord after being two years into the faith. I became frustrated with where I was going and felt that I did not really know the Lord on a personal level. So, long story short, I got into the middle of a park in the dead of night and introduced myself to Him. One moment I didn't know Him and the next I did. I can't tell you how that happened, but it did,

I watched an episode of Startrek once where someone had stolen Spock's brain and Dr McKoy had to put it back in his head. But he didn't have the knowledge to do it. But there was a machine that when he put his hands into it, would give him the knowledge, but once only. So he put his hands into the machine and suddenly he knew how to reconnect Spock's brain. Not the best example I know, but it is the closest that I can come to it.

So, it is not exactly a "voice" as such, but an inner knowledge that the verse of Scripture or the comment of a godly author is significant, either for fresh insight into some aspect of God's ways, or for further direction in life. It is like getting a word of knowledge or a word of wisdom for one's self. Somehow, the Holy Spirit within us, causes us to "know" what He wants us to know.

zoidar · Jul 20, 2019

Aabbie James said:
Can you be more specific on exactly what Christian Advice you are asking for? From what I understand in your original post, you have multiple compound questions, and they all appear to be of the yes/no variety:

Has the prophecy not come true because I doubted God's promise?

Has the prophecy not come true because of personal sins?

Has the prophecy not come true because of something else?

Is the prophecy sill valid?

Do you think God has taken it [the prophecy] back?

My Christian advice is don't dwell on matters, as you put it, [an older Christian festival woman, whom you've never seen before, sitting a few seats away from you, "prophesied" loudly to you, five years ago]. Instead, cast all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you. (1 Peter 5:7)

And then there's this: 1 John 4:1

There's always the "Spiritual Gifts" and "Sign Gifts" forum too...

The questions were really what I have done wrong for the prophetic words not to come true, and what I could do about it. Now I've gotten some advice, prayers and encouragement, and I'm thankful for that.

D.A. Wright · Jul 20, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
You do remember saying that there was don't you, so why say that, as if I was crazy to believe you? I was interested; now I will question everything you say.

Dear, sweet Charismatic Lady, I must confess, you absolutely confound me. Having said that, I must also admit that I am often bewildered by the obvious.

RaymondG · Jul 20, 2019

Oscarr said:
Bill Johnson and Kenneth Copeland will accept you as one of them!

Thanks, dont know who they are.....But they must be some savvy good looking guys. appreciate the support.

tturt · Jul 20, 2019

I'm thankful that you continue to recognize that it was a word for you from The Lord. You might have already done this but just in case - suggesti that you forgive anyone you need to - God, someone else, and/or yourself. It's something that has helped others.

Based on Mark 11 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

CharismaticLady · Jul 20, 2019

Oscarr said:
Yep. I made peace with him which was the Scriptural thing to do, and he was the one who preached last Sunday. I'm sure that the Holy Spirit orchestrated his sermon to show me what He can do with even a person I disagree with. Making peace with him doesn't mean that I agree with him. However, I did not rejoin the leadership team. I've done my bit after 18 years. I'm happy to sit on the back row with the backsliders and just enjoy the fellowship.

Backsliders? Yeah, right...scoff.

CharismaticLady · Jul 20, 2019

David Wright said:
Dear, sweet Charismatic Lady, I must confess, you absolutely confound me. Having said that, I must also admit that I am often bewildered by the obvious.

I take it you do not remember saying it. Okay, enough said.

And the question from long ago, no, I do not believe any more scripture (for the instruction of everyone) is still being given. But, I do believe in personal revelation and prophecies from God. And as I said earlier, I believe the apostle Barnabas' epistle IS scripture and I acknowledge it.

And just so you know, I don't believe EGW is guilty of writing scripture. She is more like me receiving revelation about what is already written. Though I don't believe she was infallible in that, anymore than I have nothing more to learn.

I just learned something new today, on a different forum site! That makes 71 years being in error!

LoricaLady · Jul 21, 2019

zoidar said:
For many years I have been struggeling with something. At a Christian festival as I sat among the people thinking about this problem an older woman (I never seen before) a few seats away started profetizing with a loud voice. It was like she was talking directly to me, starting with "So says the Lord..." and continuing with describing my problem and ending with that I didn't have to worry and that God would help me.

This is maybe five years ago and still the prophecy hasn't come true. Now I wonder why. Is it because I doubted in God's promise or because of personal sins, or maybe something else? Maybe more important, is the prophecy still valid or do think God has taken it back?

I have no way to know if that woman was legit or not.
One way or another I would pray to know if the woman was a prophet or not. Also, even if she was not so what? The Father will be happy to help you anyway. I pray all will go well for you.

LoricaLady · Jul 21, 2019

P.S. Here is what I think is an excellent video on the topic of divine healing, below.

(Disclaimer. I do not agree with all Art Thomas says, though. For example he gives the impression that the Lord never puts sickness on people, but there are cases in the Bible where He did. In fact He told the Israelites that if they obeyed Him He would not put on them the sicknesses He put on the Egyptians, whatever those were.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHDKIfcbn2g&t=3166s

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