Amillennialism Safe House

TribulationSigns said:

What does Amillennial mean?

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I believe this article by Anthony Hoekema does an excellent job of answering that question:

"Amillennialism: A Brief Sketch of Amillennial Eschatology" by Anthony Hoekema

Quoting from above link:
As regards inaugurated eschatology, then, amillennialism affirms the following:

1. Christ has won the decisive victory over sin, death and Satan. By living a sinless life and by dying on the cross as the sacrifice of atonement for our sin, Christ defeated sin. By undergoing death and then victoriously rising from the grave, Christ defeated death. By resisting the devil’s temptations, by perfectly obeying God, and by his death and resurrection, Christ delivered a deathblow to Satan and his evil hosts. This victory of Christ’s was decisive and final. The most important day in history, therefore, is not the Second Coming of Christ which is still future but the first coming which lies in the past. Because of the victory of Christ, the ultimate issues of history have already been decided. It is now only a question of time until that victory is brought to its final consummation.

2. The kingdom of God is both present and future. Amillennialists do not believe that the kingdom of God is primarily a Jewish kingdom which involves the literal restoration of the throne of David. Nor do they believe that because of the unbelief of the Jews of his day Christ postponed the establishment of the kingdom to the time of his future earthly millennial reign. Amillennialists believe that the kingdom of God was founded by Christ at the time of his sojourn on earth, is operative in history now and is destined to be revealed in its fullness in the life to come. They understand the kingdom of God to be the reign of God dynamically active in human history through Jesus Christ. Its purpose is to redeem God’s people from sin and from demonic powers, and finally to establish the new heavens and the new earth. The kingdom of God means nothing less than the reign of God in Christ over his entire created universe.

The kingdom of God is therefore both a present reality and a future hope. Jesus clearly taught that the kingdom was already present during his earthly ministry: “But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you” (Mt. 12:28, NIV). When the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom of God was coming, he replied, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, `Lo, here it is!’ or `There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you” (Lk. 17:20-21 - Anthony Hoekema

I also find this a helpful article, by Sam Storms:

Sam Storms said:

I often hear people say that they have embraced the Amillennial view of biblical eschatology “in spite of” what they read in Revelation 20. I want to go on record in saying that I have embraced Amillennialism precisely “because of” Revelation 20. I find the evidence from this passage to be altogether persuasive in telling me that the “millennial” reign of the saints is a reference to the experience of co-regency on the part of those believers who are now in the intermediate state with Christ. Thus, the millennium is a current phenomenon, in heaven, spanning the age between the two advents of Jesus Christ. Here are ten reasons why. - I am an Amillennialist "because of" Revelation 20

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Partial preterist and Amillennials are pretty close to a great degree. I found this out listening to and reading Kim Riddlebarger as well as R.C.Sproul.

For those who hold the doctrine of Amillennialism, who do you believe the beasts of Revelation 13 are?

TribulationSigns said:

For those who hold the doctrine of Amillennialism, who do you believe the beasts of Revelation 13 are?

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I hold that the beast of Revelation 13 is Rome ruled by Nero.

ebedmelech said:

I hold that the beast of Revelation 13 is Rome ruled by Nero.

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Thank you.

Thank you, Mod.

Mkgal1, if you are indeed amillennialist, who do you think the beasts of Revelation 13 represent?

TribulationSigns said:

For those who hold the doctrine of Amillennialism, who do you believe the beasts of Revelation 13 are?

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I'm still processing and haven't firmly landed on a conclusion yet, but I think the second beast in Rev 13 is most likely zealot-led Jerusalem (and, like ebedmelech posted, the first is Rome ruled by Nero).

There are two beasts mentioned in Rev 13, right? The one first introduced in Rev 11:7 and then the second beast that works closely with the first beast that's later called the "false prophet" (Revelation 16:13, 19:20, 20:10)?


About the first beast: The first eight verses of this chapter (Revelation 13:1-8), as well as verse 18, describe “the beast.” We already saw that this beast was responsible for hunting down and killing the two witnesses in Jerusalem. This beast:

-rose up out of the sea
-had seven heads
-had 10 horns with 10 crowns
-had a blasphemous name
-had body parts of a leopard, a bear, and a lion
-received its power, throne, and authority from the dragon (Rev. 12)
-had a mortally wounded head that was healed
-received worship
-was admired for its victories in war
-had authority to continue for 42 months
-blasphemed God, His name, His tabernacle, and His saints
-warred against and overcame the saints
-had authority over every tribe, tongue, and nation
-worked closely with the second beast, later called “the false prophet”
-was represented by an image, a mark, a name, and a number

Verses 11-17 describe a second beast that:

-came up out of the earth (also translated “land”)
-had two horns like a lamb
-spoke like a dragon
-worked in the presence of the first beast
-directed those in the land to worship the first beast
-performed great, deceiving signs
-oversaw the creation of an image to the first beast
-granted power to give breath to the image, which could speak and cause people to be killed
-allowed buying and selling only for those who had the mark, number, or name of the first beast.

Quoting from Kim Riddlebarger :
What is recorded in Revelation 13 reflects the fact that a dramatic turning point in the history of redemption has already taken place with the coming of Jesus Christ. Through our Lord’s death and resurrection, the dragon has already been decisively defeated by the Messiah (cf. Colossians 2:15). Although our salvation has been secured through Christ’s death upon the cross, and through his resurrection from the dead, the dragon is enraged by his defeat and consequently wages war upon the saints (Revelation 13:7) because he knows his time is short (Revelation 12:12).

The Book of Revelation, therefore, depicts an already defeated foe waging his last desperate efforts in a war he knows he has already lost. In this final attempt to escape his inevitable fate, the dragon now enlists the aid of two beasts to do his bidding, one from the sea (Revelation 13:1-10) and one from the land (Revelation 13:11-18). While the final outcome is never in doubt, the particular circumstances which bring us to the climatic end of redemptive history have long fascinated God’s people.

Critical to understanding John’s vision in Revelation 13 is his statement that the first beast has “ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name (v. 1).” This beast “resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.” This immediately harkens any reader who was familiar with the Old Testament back to Daniel’s vision of a great beast in Daniel 7:7, who is ultimately slain (Daniel 7:11) and who is conquered by the son of man and his everlasting kingdom (Daniel 7:13-14). Not only does the beast of John’s vision possess military power second to none– “Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?” (v. 4a)–but when “one of the heads of the beast seemed to have suffered a fatal wound, the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast (v. 3).”

This obvious parody of Christ’s resurrection (cf. H. B. Swete, The Apocalypse of St. John, Macmillian, 1907, lxxxiv), coupled with the military prowess and deceptive ways of the beast, gives the dragon exactly what he craves. “Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast (v. 4b).” Not only did men worship Satan because of the might of the beast, “they also worshiped the beast.” Clearly, then, what is in view is a state (government) which is empowered by Satan, and which claims divine rights and prerogatives for itself. Bauckham is quite correct when he calls this a “deification of power,” in which military power (perhaps we could add economic power as well) masks the inevitability of the beast’s destruction by Christ and his kingdom (Bauckham, The Climax of Prophecy, 451).

The overtly antichristian nature of this reign of this beast can be seen in what follows. “The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months,” the forty-two months most likely a reference to the inter-advental age (Beale, The Book of Revelation, 695; Sweet, Revelation, 210-211). Taken from Daniel 7:25b (and from Daniel 12:7), this same period of time appears in the preceding chapters of the Book of Revelation. In Revelation 11:2-3, the Gentiles are said to trample the holy city (the church–i.e., the dwelling place of God in the new covenant–cf. Beale, The Book of Revelation, 570) for forty-two months, and for 1,260 days. This is the same time period in which the two witnesses proclaim the gospel (Revelation 11:3). In Revelation 12:6, John refers to the time of the protection of the woman in the wilderness (the church) as spanning 1,260 days, and then again later as “a time, times, and half a time” (v. 14). As Beale points out, these are all references to the same period of time, indicating that the manifestation of the beast likewise “spans the time from Christ’s death and resurrection to the culmination of history”(Beale, The Book of Revelation, 695).

This means that the beast’s efforts to oppose the gospel extends from the time of the Neronian persecution into the present, and will continue until the end of the age, when the beast is destroyed by Jesus Christ at his second advent (Revelation 20:10). ~ Riddleblog - The Latest Post - The Counterfeit Trinity of Revelation 13 -- Amillennialism 101

TribulationSigns said:

For those who hold the doctrine of Amillennialism, who do you believe the beasts of Revelation 13 are?

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(Revelation 13:1)
The ‘Beast’ rising from the sea of nations is the aggregation of world power into empires – the end result of secular human government, independent of, and antagonistic to God.

(Revelation 13:11-14)
The ‘Beast’ rising from the earth, is religious power arising from human wisdom, and serving the secular power (1st beast) by deceiving people into worshiping it.

Christian Gedge said:

(Revelation 13:1)
The ‘Beast’ rising from the sea of nations is the aggregation of world power into empires – the end result of secular human government, independent of, and antagonistic to God.

(Revelation 13:11-14)
The ‘Beast’ rising from the earth, is religious power arising from human wisdom, and serving the secular power (1st beast) by deceiving people into worshiping it.

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Christian Gedge, you're saying the pattern will repeat until "all are reconciled unto Him" - correct? If so.....that's been on my mind recently (and I agree).

mkgal1 said:

Christian Gedge, you're saying the pattern will repeat until "all are reconciled unto Him" - correct? If so.....that's been on my mind recently (and I agree).

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Yes, I believe it is a repeating pattern. Beasts have been emerging since Nimrod. The classic case in scripture is Nebuchadnezzar who made an image representing himself and forced all people to worship it. Preterists quote certain Roman emperors, and they are right in the sense that Rome was a 'beast' and the emperor embodied the spirit of Rome.

However, we miss the full meaning of Rev 12,13,17 if we limit it to yesterdays 'beasts'. There is no reason, IMO, to reject the possibility of it happening again.

Christian Gedge said:

There is no reason, IMO, to reject the possibility of it happening again.

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I agree. Like Solomon said [wrote], "there's nothing new under the sun".

mkgal1 said:

I'm still processing and haven't firmly landed on a conclusion yet, but I think the second beast in Rev 13 is most likely zealot-led Jerusalem (and, like ebedmelech posted, the first is Rome ruled by Nero).

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So it is your position that the first beast is Rome ruled by Nero and the Second Beast is religious Jerusalem, correct?

Have you considered that we first need to find God's definition for the Beast in Scripture instead of trying to link beast to historic writing about an empire, a nation, a city, and a leader of said state?

Christian Gedge said:

(Revelation 13:1)
The ‘Beast’ rising from the sea of nations is the aggregation of world power into empires – the end result of secular human government, independent of, and antagonistic to God.

(Revelation 13:11-14)
The ‘Beast’ rising from the earth, is religious power arising from human wisdom, and serving the secular power (1st beast) by deceiving people into worshiping it.

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I noticed that you quoted 'Beast' in both instances and made some assumptions that they must be some a world power and religious power. No, we need to know God's definition of the beast. For example, what does the sea signifies? The earth? The horns? The power? A mouth? The image? The mark? The right hand? The forehead? etc. All of these requires a study in Scripture and find God's definition for all of these. No one really can't go around and say, "oh, the beast must be some world power so let me check with world history and map", or "Oh the beast must appear like religious so let find some evil religious group to link beast with depending on their relationship with the first beast". Or "Oh the image must be a man-made statue that supernaturally speaks" or "The mark of the beast must be some physical mark, seal, or chip of some kind. Or get in some mathematic circus to figure out the number of the beast. This is not how we find God's interpretation this way. We go to Scripture to find out.

Hmmm. The beast doesn't wear a black suit and look real mean by any chance Trib?

TribulationSigns said:

So it is your position that the first beast is Rome ruled by Nero and the Second Beast is religious Jerusalem, correct?

Have you considered that we first need to find God's definition for the Beast in Scripture instead of trying to link beast to historic writing about an empire, a nation, a city, and a leader of said state?

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As of right now....yes.

Edit: You used the label "religious Jerusalem" - but I wanted to clarify that I'd originally stated "zealot-led Jerusalem". I think that's more clear, since there were several groups that could have been considered "religious Jerusalem" including the early Church. The second beast is identified as the "false prophet" (Revelation 16:13, 19:20, 20:10)
But CG makes a good point that I'm in agreement with (the repeating pattern).

Christian Gedge said:

(Revelation 13:1)
The ‘Beast’ rising from the sea of nations is the aggregation of world power into empires – the end result of secular human government, independent of, and antagonistic to God.

(Revelation 13:11-14)
The ‘Beast’ rising from the earth, is religious power arising from human wisdom, and serving the secular power (1st beast) by deceiving people into worshiping it.

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mkgal1 said:

As of right now....yes.

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Okay, thank you. I will reveal my position shortly.

David Chilton, who, according to Steve Gregg, sees the second beast as representing “the Jewish religious system and leadership collectively as a false agent of God.” Chilton says,

The Jewish leaders, symbolized by this Beast from the Land, joined forces with the Beast of Rome in an attempt to destroy the Church (Acts 4:24-28; 12:1-3; 13:8; 14:5; 17:5-8; 18:12-13; 21:11; 24:1-9; 25:2-3, 9, 24)… The Book of Acts records several instances of miracle-working Jewish false prophets who came into conflict with the Church (cf. Acts 8:9-24) and worked under Roman officials (cf. Acts 13:6-11); as Jesus foretold (Matt. 7:22-23), some of them even used His name in their incantations (Acts 19:13-16).


One blogger, who holds to this view, wrote the following, after citing John 19:15-22, where the chief priest declared “We have no king but Caesar“:

LittleLambofJesus said:

Do Amills view Jerusalem 70ad as the great City in Revelation? Thanks

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If you are not Amill do not ask questions or post here.

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