Historical Church and Domestic Violence: My Faith in God and Church is shattered now

flyingsquirrel256 · May 6, 2019

A little background. I suffered childhood abuse from my father, and watched him also beat and abuse my mother. I have been a Christian all my life, and am now in my 30s. A few years ago, I read a church history book for the first time, and realized that I had been told a lot of lies and quacky stuff. Thinking that sticking to a thread of Tradition would keep me safe from the quacky stuff, I joined an Anglican church.

Then last year, I made a huge mistake. I wondered how the church traditionally handled domestic violence. I had caught wind that maybe they did more than tell sufferers to just "stay and pray" as is so common today. That they granted separations. So I read, and read, and read. Barabara Hanawalt, Sara M. Butler, James Brundage, just to name a few. To my horror, I found out that Christian clerics from late antiquity all the way through the Modern Era (including a lot of Reformers) taught that some wife beating was okay because it was the man's job to maintain order in the home.

In other words, husbands could employ physical chastisement of their wives and have it be church sanctioned. And back then, corporal punishment wasn't so nice (it makes spanking a kid look darn right cuddly). Very few and far between are the John Chrysostoms of the world, who forbid any and all verbal or physical correction of wives. Canon law and ecclesiastical court cases reflect women having to prove that they weren't scolds or disobedient to their husbands before they could even hope for a separation, if one was granted at all and the husband wasn't just slapped on the hand with a "don't be that severe again" warning.

I have suffered from horrific depression over this. The last 8 months especially have been a nightmare. I've had a complete mental breakdown. I feel so betrayed, angry, and despairing. It's all I can think of, now. It's burned my mind.

If you were to ask any Christian today, they would say that of course any abuse of a wife is wrong and that the Bible does not support any wife beating whatsoever. But it wasn't obvious just even a few hundred years ago. They didn't even say "wives submit", but rather, "wives obey". And what really spooked me, is how the justification for physical chastisement of wives was eerily similar to those reasons that typically argue against women's ordination, including in my own Anglican denomination (which I have since fled once the dots connected). Basically, that women are stupid, easily deceived, etc., and need to be led by men. (Yeah, complementarians put flowery language around it now, but it's still the same train of thought.)

And the question I keep having is why? Why wouldn't God write the Bible more clearly and explicitly forbid any and all wife beating? How do I stop seeing God as negligent and uncaring at best or at worst downright cruel and hateful towards women? How can I ever trust again? If God loves women, why would He allow this, or leave the Bible so open ended to where very few men got it in their heads that they shouldn't ever strike their wives? I feel like my brain is on fire trying to resolve this information, to make sense of it, so I can finally let it go. I keep searching and searching, hoping I'll find a different set of information to counteract the bad I've read, but this has only reinforced what I've read. I never fathomed that the church could be even worse at handling domestic violence than it is today with the typical "stay and pray"/"be a martyr" mantra. That it could proactively teach something so diabolical as the physical chastisement of wives.

I've tried counseling with a qualified psychologist. All CBT did was make me cry worse. I'm getting treatment for perimenopause, but so far it hasn't helped my thought patterns or fear. It's only relieved my anxiety. The depression is still there. What can I possibly do the undo the hurt to my brain? I feel like my head is spinning like a top. I dread waking up in the morning. I can't get the image out of my head of Russian serfs hooking their wives or daughter-in-laws up to their carts and whipping them like a horse. All with the church looking the other way, uncaring.

How do I get my trust in God back? How? Nobody has an answer that I can swallow. How can I know that God loves me, a lowly woman? I feel like He made us to be chattel and gave us little protection. I used to not be scared of men, but after reading what I did, I now am. I don't want to be. I know there are nice guys. And yet I think, how many nice guys are there really if so few stand up for the abused? Especially over the vast majority of Christian history?

Somebody please help me.

Is there anything that can counteract what I read? Does God hate women? Are we really chattel? Why has the church so persistently messed up over this? Where is the Holy Spirit to guide the church? Wasn't He supposed to do that? What happened? Where is the Good News? I feel like the Gospel is just more bad news, now. How do I get my faith back and not live in such constant terror of both God and men?

Chesterton · May 6, 2019

flyingsquirrel256 said:
Somebody please help me.

Be glad to. John Chrysostom represents the "historical Church". Don't spend any more money on psychologists.

dzheremi · May 6, 2019

And the same St. John once preached concerning Christian marriage that the marriage should be like the hand and the eye: when the hand is hurting, the eye should be crying, and when the eye is crying, the hand should wipe away the tears.

This is the healthy, Christ-centered relationship we should all strive towards embodying in both our personal and public lives.

-Sasha- · May 6, 2019

flyingsquirrel256 said:
Very few and far between are the John Chrysostoms of the world

Not really. Perhaps you would benefit from reading less of the Western (Roman Catholic and Protestant) writings, and more of the Eastern Orthodox writings.
In any case, of course God does not hate women. He created us. He became incarnate through a woman. The very first to know of His resurrection were women. There are many female Saints, from the time of Christ up til present day.

section9+1 · May 6, 2019

Does scripture determine doctrine or does doctrine interpret scripture? I won't defend any injustices that took place in the past, but there's a lot of married Christian women out there who are at peace with God and with their husbands. It's a doable thing. If you don't have it, maybe your theology has been a little mixed up and now you need to make some changes. I know the husband must be part of the solution as well and if he is the problem, I don't think God expects anyone to live in an impossible situation, but if you've got a problem with God I can see that going on for a while, but if it goes on to the point of irreconciliation, with whom does the problem lie?

flyingsquirrel256 · May 6, 2019

-Sasha- said:
Not really. Perhaps you would benefit from reading less of the Western (Roman Catholic and Protestant) writings, and more of the Eastern Orthodox writings.
In any case, of course God does not hate women. He created us. He became incarnate through a woman. The very first to know of His resurrection were women. There are many female Saints, from the time of Christ up til present day.

I tried that, too. Didn't come up with much, other than Basil the Great making canon law that forbade women from separating from abusive husbands, no matter how severe or life-endangering the beatings were. Do you have anything in particular in mind that I could read that is as forceful as Chrysostom?

flyingsquirrel256 · May 6, 2019

Chesterton said:
Be glad to. John Chrysostom represents the "historical Church". Don't spend any more money on psychologists.

He isn't the only figure in the historic church. There are many, many patristics, many Western and Eastern medieval moral theologians, etc. Please help me find writings that are as forceful against all phyiscal chastisement of wives. I keep finding either ambivalance a la St. Augustine, middle of the road (some wife beating okay, so long as not too extreme or irrational) a la Bernardino of Sienna, or outright horrifying, like Friar Cherubino or the Domostroy.

dzheremi · May 6, 2019

This is one of those issues where I would say that the attitude against physical abuse in society in general is a rather modern one, so it should not be surprising to not find it explicitly addressed in any particular father(s), or addressed in an unsatisfactory way (which I agree, to the extent that it was addressed at all, it was usually unsatisfactory). That does not make it okay, of course, but it's sort of like saying "Why didn't the fathers say XYZ about transgender people?" or something like that. That's a modern concept. That doesn't deny that such people (as they would be identified now by society in general) may have existed in the past, and maybe you can find something somewhere in the fathers that is applicable to that situation, but it is highly unlikely that it would match the modern way of thinking. The fathers may have been illumined by the Holy Spirit (especially when speaking in ways that were strikingly out of step with their time, as St. John Chrysostom did on this issue, or as St. Gregory did on slavery in the 4th century), but they were not necessarily able to look into the future, and they too were fallible in their explanations or justifications for things that today we would not accept.

Here's an informal sampling on the question, believed to be from the NY Daily Mirror (I found it via Google at the Daily Mail), asked in the 1950s (when my parents, one of whom is still alive, were children):

As you can tell from how shocking the above answers are, we have come a long way on this issue in most Western societies in a very short time (60 years is nothing in the context of a 2,000 year old religion/church), and we should continue in this vein so that our respective churches, while keeping their conservative theological, liturgical, and spiritual patrimony intact, are illumined to address these kinds of issues in a manner that is responsive, caring, and strong. I write this with some sadness because this particular issue is actually a huge problem for my own Church -- Egypt, Sudan, and Libya being very patriarchal societies, and being ruled by a non-Christian religion which not only condones wife-beating, but prescribes it in certain circumstances -- and it is one that, from my perspective as a Western convert, we are not handling or confronting properly. I have heard that this is one of the issues that HH Pope Tawadros II is addressing in his reform of some of the Church's entrenched practices that are not actually that old (i.e., the reduction in the allowances for divorce: physical abuse apparently used to be among them until the time of HH Pope Shenouda III, when for some reason the Biblical justifications for divorce began to be read incredibly literally, in the sense of "Jesus didn't mention it, but did mention this and this, so these are the only two reasons we'll allow"; this is at least somewhat against our traditional way of reading the scriptures...though of course it is never wrong to follow Christ as closely as possible, we must always remember the spirit of the law, not just the letter). Unfortunately I cannot provide any links that are in English (I only read about it in Arabic, so it's possible that I might not have grasped the entire meaning; Arabic is not my first language), but it is said that HH wants to reexamine the Coptic Church's guidelines for divorce and return at least some of them that were taken away in the last four decades, including this one.

While I can't verify it, I hope it's true, and may God's will that all be protected as His beloved creation -- both women and men -- be realized through the hands of His servants in all churches of every place, people, and type.

Chesterton · May 6, 2019

flyingsquirrel256 said:
He isn't the only figure in the historic church. There are many, many patristics, many Western and Eastern medieval moral theologians, etc. Please help me find writings that are as forceful against all phyiscal chastisement of wives. I keep finding either ambivalance a la St. Augustine, middle of the road (some wife beating okay, so long as not too extreme or irrational) a la Bernardino of Sienna, or outright horrifying, like Friar Cherubino or the Domostroy.

You're worried about the historic church, and reading all this stuff from outside the historic church. Doesn't make sense. Maybe you should change the thread title.

Lost4words · May 6, 2019

The Bible was written in times when women were very much treated as 2nd rate citizens. I surely wouldnt blame God for what the people of those times decided to 'add' to God's word in the Bible. God is all loving and all merciful.

com7fy8 · May 6, 2019

flyingsquirrel256 said:
Why wouldn't God write the Bible more clearly and explicitly forbid any and all wife beating?

My opinion is that God's word is clear. And in case God does not explicitly write this, this can be because He knows how submission of a Christian wife has nothing to do with beating.

Submission is meant to be because of love and how she and her husband are together being satisfied and guided by God in His peace > Colossians 3:15. Both the man and his lady are personally guided the same way, then, and therefore how she is guided by God coincides with how her husband guides her the way God is guiding him to guide her. So, he is also being submissive the way she is required to be . . . both to God; he takes the lead, and she is submitting to his good example, plus helping him with her prayer and her good example. And he is also submissive to her >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

Jesus "did not threaten" > 1 Peter 2:20 < so beating is connected with threatening; so it is clearly anti-Christ.

Also, we are commanded how to relate >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

Beating has nothing at all to do with "all lowliness and gentleness".

Also, we have, for leaders who are trusted to take care of God's people >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

And >

"Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them." (Colossians 3:15)

Beating can be the result of some sort of bitterness developing in the abuser. But love has us being kind and gentle and creative, not only controlling by means of pain.

Real correction and submission comes with God's correction of our character > Hebrews 12:4-14.

What I suspect has happened is some number of women in their own egos have forced their own selves to submit to their husbands, and then their own egos have broken down in dissatisfaction and bitterness of feeling like they are "slaves" of their husbands. But in their own egos' effort to submit, they have not been submitting first to how our Father rules us in His own peace and Jesus gives us "rest for your souls" (in Matthew 11:28-30); and so they begin with not being submissive to God in His grace.

So, I would say it is not wise to judge God's church by how wrong people have done things and misrepresented things.

St_Worm2 · May 6, 2019

Hello @flyingsquirrel256, first off, WELCOME TO CF

Here's some of what the Bible has to say about relationships between husbands and wives. To begin with, it's important to understand that we are all one in Christ .. Galatians 3:28, but in a similar manner to the Members of the Godhead (who each have different roles, and who each work together in the manner of a team to bring about salvation .. Concise Theology, Packer, J I), husbands and wives are each called to different roles in their marriage to work together and support one another in the manner of a team, as well.

My emphasis (in bold) below is on segments of the husband's role and what he is called to do, but the wife's role is included as well. Please take note that while wives are called by God to be submissive to their husbands (whose God-given role is leader or head of the marriage/home), they are called to "choose" to do so (which is similar to Jesus, who "chooses" to be submit to His Father's leadership in the Godhead).

What we know from Scripture is that God created woman as a complement and a gift to man (Genesis 2:18, 22). She is to be treasured, protected, and selflessly served the way Christ loves and serves His church (Ephesians 5:25–30; 1 Peter 3:7). But fallen man, acting according to his sinful flesh, often perverts what God creates. ~What does the Bible say about women’s rights?

Men/husbands are not better or more important than women/wives, nor are women better or more important than men. However, we are different from one another, complimentary to each other in many ways, with different strengths and weaknesses, and God placed us in different roles in marriage for our good, as individuals in our walks before Him, and for the good of the marriage/family, of course. As you can see from the Scriptures below, He intended that we support one other in the areas of our strengths, and likewise, that we receive support from our spouse, as needed, in the areas where we are weaker.

Again, I believe that God intended us to work together as a team to help each other as we grow in Christlikeness/sanctification throughout this life, and as the best way to bring up our children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord .. Ephesians 6:4.

Here are the Scripture passages I was referring to above.

Ephesians 5
22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,
26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;
29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,
30 because we are members of His body.
31 FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.
32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

Colossians 3
18 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them.

1 Peter 3
1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.
3 Your adornment must not be merely external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses;
4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.
5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands;
6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.
7 You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26)

--David

Purity Clarity Parkes · Jun 23, 2019

flyingsquirrel256 said:
A little background. I suffered childhood abuse from my father, and watched him also beat and abuse my mother. I have been a Christian all my life, and am now in my 30s. A few years ago, I read a church history book for the first time, and realized that I had been told a lot of lies and quacky stuff. Thinking that sticking to a thread of Tradition would keep me safe from the quacky stuff, I joined an Anglican church.

Then last year, I made a huge mistake. I wondered how the church traditionally handled domestic violence. I had caught wind that maybe they did more than tell sufferers to just "stay and pray" as is so common today. That they granted separations. So I read, and read, and read. Barabara Hanawalt, Sara M. Butler, James Brundage, just to name a few. To my horror, I found out that Christian clerics from late antiquity all the way through the Modern Era (including a lot of Reformers) taught that some wife beating was okay because it was the man's job to maintain order in the home.

In other words, husbands could employ physical chastisement of their wives and have it be church sanctioned. And back then, corporal punishment wasn't so nice (it makes spanking a kid look darn right cuddly). Very few and far between are the John Chrysostoms of the world, who forbid any and all verbal or physical correction of wives. Canon law and ecclesiastical court cases reflect women having to prove that they weren't scolds or disobedient to their husbands before they could even hope for a separation, if one was granted at all and the husband wasn't just slapped on the hand with a "don't be that severe again" warning.

I have suffered from horrific depression over this. The last 8 months especially have been a nightmare. I've had a complete mental breakdown. I feel so betrayed, angry, and despairing. It's all I can think of, now. It's burned my mind.

If you were to ask any Christian today, they would say that of course any abuse of a wife is wrong and that the Bible does not support any wife beating whatsoever. But it wasn't obvious just even a few hundred years ago. They didn't even say "wives submit", but rather, "wives obey". And what really spooked me, is how the justification for physical chastisement of wives was eerily similar to those reasons that typically argue against women's ordination, including in my own Anglican denomination (which I have since fled once the dots connected). Basically, that women are stupid, easily deceived, etc., and need to be led by men. (Yeah, complementarians put flowery language around it now, but it's still the same train of thought.)

And the question I keep having is why? Why wouldn't God write the Bible more clearly and explicitly forbid any and all wife beating? How do I stop seeing God as negligent and uncaring at best or at worst downright cruel and hateful towards women? How can I ever trust again? If God loves women, why would He allow this, or leave the Bible so open ended to where very few men got it in their heads that they shouldn't ever strike their wives? I feel like my brain is on fire trying to resolve this information, to make sense of it, so I can finally let it go. I keep searching and searching, hoping I'll find a different set of information to counteract the bad I've read, but this has only reinforced what I've read. I never fathomed that the church could be even worse at handling domestic violence than it is today with the typical "stay and pray"/"be a martyr" mantra. That it could proactively teach something so diabolical as the physical chastisement of wives.

I've tried counseling with a qualified psychologist. All CBT did was make me cry worse. I'm getting treatment for perimenopause, but so far it hasn't helped my thought patterns or fear. It's only relieved my anxiety. The depression is still there. What can I possibly do the undo the hurt to my brain? I feel like my head is spinning like a top. I dread waking up in the morning. I can't get the image out of my head of Russian serfs hooking their wives or daughter-in-laws up to their carts and whipping them like a horse. All with the church looking the other way, uncaring.

How do I get my trust in God back? How? Nobody has an answer that I can swallow. How can I know that God loves me, a lowly woman? I feel like He made us to be chattel and gave us little protection. I used to not be scared of men, but after reading what I did, I now am. I don't want to be. I know there are nice guys. And yet I think, how many nice guys are there really if so few stand up for the abused? Especially over the vast majority of Christian history?

Somebody please help me.

Is there anything that can counteract what I read? Does God hate women? Are we really chattel? Why has the church so persistently messed up over this? Where is the Holy Spirit to guide the church? Wasn't He supposed to do that? What happened? Where is the Good News? I feel like the Gospel is just more bad news, now. How do I get my faith back and not live in such constant terror of both God and men?

God Bless you, dear One.
I will pray for you daily.

As a general rule, do your best to avoid beliefs, rules or traditions which are not advocated in the Bible. After all, was not segregation between African-Americans and Caucasian-Americans committed in the Church? How could this be tolerated when the Bible explicitly states in Galatians 3:28 ‘...[we] are all one in Christ.’

The issue with following religious leaders is that one must constantly ensure that their spiritual doctrine is sound.

Yes, the man may have the role of keeping order in the house, but does he not also have to love his wife in the same way that Christ loved the Church (Ephesians 5:25)? A good Christian husband must have a love that is self-sacrificial to the point of whole-heartedly dying in the place of his wife. Christ let himself be humiliated for the Church. A husband should be willing to do the same for the Church. Christ had his back whipped to shreds for the Church. A husband should be willing to do the same for his wife. Christ was suspended with nails on a ‘t’-shaped wooden frame for his Church. A husband should be willing to do the same for his wife. Christ devoted his life to the Church. A husband should be willing to do the same for his wife.

As for staying in an abusive relationship, darling, the Lord will most certainly want you to be safe. There are some wives who the Lord tells to stay in their marriage and pray for their husband; and He creates extraordinary change. However, you are endangering the life that God has given you if you stay in that relationship against the will of the Lord.

Bob Crowley · Jun 27, 2019

Being male, I'm probably the wrong sex to be writing about this, but I had a father who was emotionally abusive. I put up with 20 years of constant ridicule and verbal abuse, and nothing I did was good enough. He completely destroyed my confidence and he did it deliberately.

In turn, I went off the rails myself for a few years, and caused some significant damage to other people. But becoming a Christian in a rather helpful church helped me to get back on track.

But because of my overall life experience, I had a lot of trouble trusting God, and sometimes I still do. For what it's worth, and this is purely private revelation, I had a vision once where "Someone" complained "He doesn't trust me!" Standing next to (H)im (?) was my old predeceased pastor, who then said, "Well, now that you've shown me all these things, I don't blame him! You expect him to do all these things, and you treat him like this!" He got into a bit of trouble over that, and the next thing I know he turned up looking frazzled, and said "I stuck up for you!"

Take that one or leave it, but it can sometimes be quite difficult to "trust God". Faith is costly, and when you've been abused by one or both parents, who stand in for God in a child's eyes, God gets the blame. I still tend to be distrustful of God the Father, who honestly doesn't mean much in my eyes, since my own father was such a mongrel (as he described himself the night he died and turned up in my room - another private revelation - saying "I've been an absolute mongrel to you!", which I suppose echoes how your own father treated you). So encouraging father figures are in short supply in my experience.

Even my old Presbyterian pastor (mentioned above - he died in January 1992) who was as close to a spiritual father figure as I'll ever experience, was discouraging, for which he apologised late in the day while he was still alive.

As for what appears to be a Christian or Church hardline in relation to women, your research is probably correct. Back in ancient Roman times for example, the father had the power of life or death over his own family. The Spartans of ancient Greece were a stoic bunch if ever there was one -

https://www.history.com/news/8-reasons-it-wasnt-easy-being-spartan

Your problem however is not the ancient Church - it's right here and now. You're not responsible for past ancient abuses, but neither are modern Christians. We've all got our own current battles to fight.

To go living in the past is not going to help.

It's time you moved on.

Darkhorse · Jun 27, 2019

flyingsquirrel256 said:
And the question I keep having is why? Why wouldn't God write the Bible more clearly and explicitly forbid any and all wife beating? How do I stop seeing God as negligent and uncaring at best or at worst downright cruel and hateful towards women? How can I ever trust again? If God loves women, why would He allow this, or leave the Bible so open ended to where very few men got it in their heads that they shouldn't ever strike their wives? I feel like my brain is on fire trying to resolve this information, to make sense of it, so I can finally let it go. I keep searching and searching, hoping I'll find a different set of information to counteract the bad I've read, but this has only reinforced what I've read. I never fathomed that the church could be even worse at handling domestic violence than it is today with the typical "stay and pray"/"be a martyr" mantra. That it could proactively teach something so diabolical as the physical chastisement of wives.

As with so many things, the problem lies not in the Gospel, but in the commentaries of people about the Gospel. Jesus treated women with a respect and understanding which was unknown in Bible times, as shown by His conversation with the Samaritan woman at the well, the Syro-Phoenician woman asking for her daughter's healing, Mary's neglecting her kitchen "duties" to listen to His teaching, and the woman caught in adultery. He upheld the ancient understanding that in marriage "the two shall become one", and that wives were not to be discarded at the whim of the husband. The first people to see the risen Christ were the women at the tomb, not His male disciples.

Paul's "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church" sets a very high standard for the treatment of wives. How many times did Jesus strike His disciples? How many times did He whip them? Men are called to love their wives sacrificially, to the point of dying for them, if necessary.

At the risk of sounding like a "red-letter Christian", I urge you to focus on Jesus's words in the New Testament and totally avoid all post-Biblical commentaries. Truth comes from God and His Word, NOT from humans trying to justify themselves by perverting the Word.

flyingsquirrel256 · Jul 19, 2019

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. Sorry I replied so late.

Bob Crowley said:
To go living in the past is not going to help.

It's time you moved on.

I"d like to, but the information I read, especially the ecclesiastical court cases and very especially the accounts of tsarist-Russian peasants openly beating a wife out in public in gangs of men or hooking up a wife to the plough instead of the horse and beating her are stuck in my head--and the church did nothing helpful. I used to have the default assumption that most men--especially in Christian nations and especially Christians--were decent, and just a few with personality disorders like my dad were mean. My old preconceptions have now been turned upside down. The information cycles through my head, and I try to fight it by saying to myself, "I'm sure there were nice men in these systems". But, it's falling flat. My brain won't be convinced. I just want to go back to the time before I read that information. I don't know why my brain won't stop thinking about it. I try, and I try, and I try. I can't even watch a chick flick without flinching inside.

Why would God create a world where abuse of women is so widespread--the default for so many cultures--and why would He leave the church so ineffective against it and even let it become part of the problem? If His Holy Spirit is guiding His church, then where did He go? Why hasn't He guided it much sooner?

I also feel very lied to by so many pastors and apologists. They never bring up bad facts like this. They cover it up and hide it, if they even know about it at all. What's really hard is that I grew up complementarian. I was in a complementarian church when I read this. Complementarians say that husbands have authority. I can't help but hear that in a new way now. Because not long ago, Christian husbands thought they could enforce their authority. My brain now draws this connection that scares me. I just want to forget. The only reason I read that stuff was for apologetics purposes. I had wanted to show how the church supported women. I feel like God is punishing me. Why? I would do anything to forget. Anything. I want to be naive and dumb and happy like everyone else is at church. I'm scared of men now, even though I'm surrounded by some very nice ones. My brain can't fathom the suffering women went through in times past, and still go through around the world. To have so much of it at the hands of Christians hurts beyond belief.

How does one actually move on? I've been reading just my Bible, but it doesn't dispel the information. It's like my brain wants resolution to something traumatizing--something to comfort it--but it can't find it and so it keeps going in circles. I want off the hamster wheel. There has to be a way. How? Has anyone ever been exposed to traumatizing information that really, really pulled the rug out from underneath them and overturned their most fundamental beliefs? How did you get your brain to stop thinking about the information and trying to "resolve" it to where it felt better about it? How did you heal from that "Luke, I am your father" moment that happened in your own life? I feel like I'm crazy and I don't know how to go back to when I wasn't crazy and was happy and stupid. I just want to be happy and stupid again. How?

Julian of Norwich · Jul 19, 2019

flyingsquirrel256 said:
Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. Sorry I replied so late.

I"d like to, but the information I read, especially the ecclesiastical court cases and very especially the accounts of tsarist-Russian peasants openly beating a wife out in public in gangs of men or hooking up a wife to the plough instead of the horse and beating her are stuck in my head--and the church did nothing helpful. I used to have the default assumption that most men--especially in Christian nations and especially Christians--were decent, and just a few with personality disorders like my dad were mean. My old preconceptions have now been turned upside down. The information cycles through my head, and I try to fight it by saying to myself, "I'm sure there were nice men in these systems". But, it's falling flat. My brain won't be convinced. I just want to go back to the time before I read that information. I don't know why my brain won't stop thinking about it. I try, and I try, and I try. I can't even watch a chick flick without flinching inside.

Why would God create a world where abuse of women is so widespread--the default for so many cultures--and why would He leave the church so ineffective against it and even let it become part of the problem? If His Holy Spirit is guiding His church, then where did He go? Why hasn't He guided it much sooner?

I also feel very lied to by so many pastors and apologists. They never bring up bad facts like this. They cover it up and hide it, if they even know about it at all. What's really hard is that I grew up complementarian. I was in a complementarian church when I read this. Complementarians say that husbands have authority. I can't help but hear that in a new way now. Because not long ago, Christian husbands thought they could enforce their authority. My brain now draws this connection that scares me. I just want to forget. The only reason I read that stuff was for apologetics purposes. I had wanted to show how the church supported women. I feel like God is punishing me. Why? I would do anything to forget. Anything. I want to be naive and dumb and happy like everyone else is at church. I'm scared of men now, even though I'm surrounded by some very nice ones. My brain can't fathom the suffering women went through in times past, and still go through around the world. To have so much of it at the hands of Christians hurts beyond belief.

How does one actually move on? I've been reading just my Bible, but it doesn't dispel the information. It's like my brain wants resolution to something traumatizing--something to comfort it--but it can't find it and so it keeps going in circles. I want off the hamster wheel. There has to be a way. How? Has anyone ever been exposed to traumatizing information that really, really pulled the rug out from underneath them and overturned their most fundamental beliefs? How did you get your brain to stop thinking about the information and trying to "resolve" it to where it felt better about it? How did you heal from that "Luke, I am your father" moment that happened in your own life? I feel like I'm crazy and I don't know how to go back to when I wasn't crazy and was happy and stupid. I just want to be happy and stupid again. How?

The answer isn't to be happy and stupid. Keep your knowledge of how sinful mankind can be. I was in a marital physically and emotionally abusive and stalking marriage. I can now have him drive me places (which he's more than happy to do) like doctor appts, etc (my doctor says I shouldn't drive on the freeway) without my grandchildren in the car. It's taken 25+ years, but it will happen. Just read the Scriptures that talk of how Jesus treated women (in a super abusive, patriarchal culture, and what Jesus taught about marriage). There are many men out there who will act just that way. It's Not impossible.

Darkhorse · Jul 19, 2019

flyingsquirrel256 said:
Why would God create a world where abuse of women is so widespread--the default for so many cultures--and why would He leave the church so ineffective against it and even let it become part of the problem? If His Holy Spirit is guiding His church, then where did He go? Why hasn't He guided it much sooner?

I just want to be happy and stupid again. How?

God didn't create a world where abuse of women is acceptable. Satan corrupted God's perfect world by introducing sin at the Fall.

Why does God allow it to continue? That is the fundamental question challenging believers.
Entire books have been written about God's allowance of evil.

It's not just abuse of women. For centuries, "Christians" have tortured and killed each other over minor differences of doctrine. "Burned at the stake" sounds ominous, but the details of that process are ghastly - too ghastly for most modern adults to contemplate.

Don't let these abuses scare you about all men.
Truly Godly men do not practice or endorse spousal abuse.
Jesus was a man; the Son of God, yes, but...also a man. An actual, physical man.

I pray that you will find relief and freedom from your torment...

Stephen Douglas · Jul 20, 2019

Yes, it is Ephesians 5:25 that commands that husbands love their wives in the same way that Christ has shown love for His church and even gave His life for it. That doesn’t sound like any type of abuse to me.

The entire gospel is concerning submission to others even to the point of loving the enemy. Clearly, abuse of any kind and toward anyone is expressly forbidden as expressed by God’s Word.

Doug

flyingsquirrel256 · Jul 22, 2019

Thank you all. I'm trying very hard to stop thinking about it. Ever tried to not think about something? Haha. Please pray for me. I feel like Satan has been attacking me most viciously in a very vulnerable spot. I wonder why God allows His church to use violence of all kinds, for so long, without intervention of the Holy Spirit to convict people that it's wrong. It seem so strange to me. But I guess that I'll never have the answer to that in this lifetime.

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