zippy2006
Dragonsworn
I'm going to shear down our conversation due to the fact that I am trying to spend less time on CF. Sorry in advance for the loss of content.
Okay, sure, but my point about the intent grounding a locution still holds. A jester is not necessarily untrustworthy, for intent can be gauged, especially in certain scenarios.
Okay I suppose some jokes include lies...
But I don't think the essence of humor is found in deception. Deception is just a common setting for a joke, but it isn't necessary and the humor of a joke doesn't come from deception. There are jokes that are just making fun of people for being stupid, gullible, etc., but I don't find them very humorous in the long run.
The legitimacy of using lies or deception as a means to an end is a good argument. Jokes, not so much. I can grant that God has a sense of humor and not be at all concerned about deep deception in reality due to that fact.
There is some humor that has deception at its core, but it's a small percentage and I think it pales in comparison to humor that is funny in form/content. (Granted, a larger percentage of humor includes deception as an accidental aspect, but the deception merely elevates rather than generates the humor.)
The essence of humor is the paradigm shift, when reality bends and shifts perspective from one lens to another. That paradoxical tension can take the form of a pun, equivocation, deception-truth turn, or any number of other things. The laughter comes from the sense of absurdity that is produced, the levity, transitoriness, and "manipulability" of reality. It is the same kind of delight that is produced when the autumn landscape is suddenly transformed by a blanket of snow. The mind, through the imagination, takes reality into its hand and reshapes it into something completely (and often contradictorily) different and new.
And if you don't reveal that in one way or another then it's not funny and it's not a joke, so it's hard to see how jokes produce distrust.
Yes, the phrase used to determine whether my grandpa was being facetious was, "His lips are moving!"
I'll grant you that the deceptive nature of jokes is intended to be temporary, but that doesn't change the fact that if I'm successful, I caused you to hold a false belief for a time.
Okay, sure, but my point about the intent grounding a locution still holds. A jester is not necessarily untrustworthy, for intent can be gauged, especially in certain scenarios.
Right, first they believe something that is false, then they realize the truth. I don't know why you're hung up on whether we would call it "deception" or "a lie".
Okay I suppose some jokes include lies...
But I don't think the essence of humor is found in deception. Deception is just a common setting for a joke, but it isn't necessary and the humor of a joke doesn't come from deception. There are jokes that are just making fun of people for being stupid, gullible, etc., but I don't find them very humorous in the long run.
Remember, we're talking about whether truth can be grounded in a good god or not. I'm saying that even a good god can cause you to hold false beliefs and be doing something good with it.
The legitimacy of using lies or deception as a means to an end is a good argument. Jokes, not so much. I can grant that God has a sense of humor and not be at all concerned about deep deception in reality due to that fact.
No, it's because people liked being tricked when they don't have a personal stake in the matter. The natural response to realizing you were tricked into making a false assumption is laughter. People enjoy magic tricks for the same reason. People enjoy being immersed in a good book or movie where they forget that it's just characters on a page or a screen.
There is some humor that has deception at its core, but it's a small percentage and I think it pales in comparison to humor that is funny in form/content. (Granted, a larger percentage of humor includes deception as an accidental aspect, but the deception merely elevates rather than generates the humor.)
The essence of humor is the paradigm shift, when reality bends and shifts perspective from one lens to another. That paradoxical tension can take the form of a pun, equivocation, deception-truth turn, or any number of other things. The laughter comes from the sense of absurdity that is produced, the levity, transitoriness, and "manipulability" of reality. It is the same kind of delight that is produced when the autumn landscape is suddenly transformed by a blanket of snow. The mind, through the imagination, takes reality into its hand and reshapes it into something completely (and often contradictorily) different and new.
As long as you're the one revealing that you were being deceptive through a joke, people are fine with that because you can be counted on to tell the truth.
And if you don't reveal that in one way or another then it's not funny and it's not a joke, so it's hard to see how jokes produce distrust.
In my case, dark dry humor is my specialty. And I know so many jokes that almost everything reminds me of one, so I interject them into conversations like regular anecdotes. People don't generally catch on that it's all a big joke until after I've finished the punchline, so the extra surprise that they've been hearing a joke the whole time amplifies the funny. I tell so many, that sometimes when I'm telling a true story people want to interrupt and ask, "Is this for real?". Oddly enough, they never interrupt my jokes, just the true stories. But people trust me too because I always reveal whether the stories are true or false.
Yes, the phrase used to determine whether my grandpa was being facetious was, "His lips are moving!"
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