1 Corinthians 13, Omniscience and Hyperbole?

Was Paul using hyperbole and referring to omniscience? Is that what he meant at the time and now?

  • Paul was referring to omniscience.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paul was referring the greatest real power of the gift of prophecy.

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Paul was referring to another possible power.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1

GoldenKingGaze

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I have a real question here:

You appear to be attempting to change the conventional understanding of what that passage means.

But what difference does it make to Paul's point?
The conventional understanding of Paul's meaning is in apostolic succession. The Baptist cessationist is a relatively new figure. Having said that, it has aged and most cessationists agree to become continuists. There is another poll in another thread.

It is the same point, just that the expressing of great things as small compared to love, refers to a list of real things rather than fiction.

Also, angelic tongues are real.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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I think that is not about Paul telling he is all knowing etc. The point is that even if he would be, it would be nothing, without love. It tells about how important love is.

And the other scriptures, I don’t think Paul is claiming to be omniscient. but with the Spirit of God, it is possible that he has more knowledge than normal person would have. But in that case is not Paul’s goodness, but God’s who influences in disciples of Jesus.
Yes, Paul was not saying he omniscient. Nor by hyperbole. My OP was that he would never have heard of the term.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Hello there! You should think this out further. The meaning of the author's words, if from God, originate in eternity. As time proceeds the Prophets words proceed with it describing reality at every moment. They say a Word from the Lord and it continues to reveal the Truth to them as well as others as events unfold. Words from the Holy Spirit are eternal.
It is not the work of professional exegetical scholars to say that such as Paul the apostle spoke from eternity so to mean, there are hidden meanings in scripture, that today we can discover, that the first readers and intended audience did not know. It could lead people to become Jehovah's Witnesses and LDS and other such deceptions can emerge with the addings to scripture of new revelations.

As a rule, first we must learn what Paul's verses meant at the time, in that language, addressing the known questions and problems, knowing the region and culture. That sets limits. Then from within the limits we can determine what the letter means for us today.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Being God's children doesn't make us "like" or equal to God. We are human, a little higher than the angels; not even close to God - One we cant even look upon without death.

Our desire should be worship of Him and life in service to Him and His children - not aspirations of grandeur.

Knowledge of the afterlife is best coming from Scripture, where it is described for us.. we are certain there isn't satanic or demonic influence when we trust in His Revelation to His people.
God from the start made us like himself. And the plan is more and more. And in Christ blood we have restoration, of what Adam lost. More than twice.

Grandeur is something God promises, to move us to service... And make us sober in judging each other and so we are strong in regards to life's passing pleasures.

From TS 2009
Heb 2:5 For it is not to messengers that He has subjected the world to come, concerning which we speak.
Heb 2:6 But somewhere one has witnessed, saying, “What is man that You remember him, or the son of man that You look after him?
Heb 2:7 “You have made him a little lower than Elohim.a You have crowned him with esteem and respect, and set him over the works of Your hands. Footnote: aAccording to the Greek text - messengers; however, this verse is quoted from Psa_8:5.
Heb 2:8 “You have put all in subjection under his feet.” Psa_8:4-6 For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left none that is not subjected to him. But now we do not yet see all subjected to him.
Heb 2:9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the messengers, יהושע, because of the suffering of death crowned with esteem and respect, that by the favour of Elohim He should taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, because of whom all are and through whom all are, in bringing many sons to esteem, to make the Prince of their deliverance perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11 For both He who sets apart and those who are being set apart are all of One, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brothers,
Heb 2:12 saying, “I shall announce Your Name to My brothers,b in the midst of the congregation I shall sing praise to You.” Psa_22:22. Footnote: bSee also Psa_45:17, Joh_17:6 and Joh_17:26.
Heb 2:13 And again, “I shall put My trust in Him.” Isa_8:17 And again, “See, I and the children whom Elohim gave Me.” Isa_8:18.
 
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Hazelelponi

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God from the start made us like himself. And the plan is more and more. And in Christ blood we have restoration, of what Adam lost. More than twice.

Grandeur is something God promises, to move us to service... And make us sober in judging each other and so we are strong in regards to life's passing pleasures.

From TS 2009
Heb 2:5 For it is not to messengers that He has subjected the world to come, concerning which we speak.
Heb 2:6 But somewhere one has witnessed, saying, “What is man that You remember him, or the son of man that You look after him?
Heb 2:7 “You have made him a little lower than Elohim.a You have crowned him with esteem and respect, and set him over the works of Your hands. Footnote: aAccording to the Greek text - messengers; however, this verse is quoted from Psa_8:5.
Heb 2:8 “You have put all in subjection under his feet.” Psa_8:4-6 For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left none that is not subjected to him. But now we do not yet see all subjected to him.
Heb 2:9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the messengers, יהושע, because of the suffering of death crowned with esteem and respect, that by the favour of Elohim He should taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, because of whom all are and through whom all are, in bringing many sons to esteem, to make the Prince of their deliverance perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11 For both He who sets apart and those who are being set apart are all of One, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brothers,
Heb 2:12 saying, “I shall announce Your Name to My brothers,b in the midst of the congregation I shall sing praise to You.” Psa_22:22. Footnote: bSee also Psa_45:17, Joh_17:6 and Joh_17:26.
Heb 2:13 And again, “I shall put My trust in Him.” Isa_8:17 And again, “See, I and the children whom Elohim gave Me.” Isa_8:18.

I hope you don't imagine yourself Jesus's equal..

Jesus is my LORD, and Savior.
 
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dqhall

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Omniscience is the ever presence of all knowledge, it is not simply the access to all knowledge which a gift of the HS would be more about.
God might give a person the knowledge a person needs. The human brain can not comprehend “all knowledge.” Jesus would have taught his apostles more, but they could not receive it at that time.

John 16:12 (World English Bible - Public Domain) “I have yet many things to tell you, but you can’t bear them now. 13 However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take from what is mine, and will declare it to you.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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I hope you don't imagine yourself Jesus's equal..

Jesus is my LORD, and Savior.
Jesus wants us to be like him, Christ-like, holy, it is meant to be our goal.
 
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Eloy Craft

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As a rule, first we must learn what Paul's verses meant at the time, in that language, addressing the known questions and problems, knowing the region and culture. That sets limits. Then from within the limits we can determine what the letter means for us today.
I agree. We must know what the author meant. What the author intends is limited not what was spoken.

is not the work of professional exegetical scholars to say that such as Paul the apostle spoke from eternity so to mean, there are hidden meanings in scripture, that today we can discover, that the first readers and intended audience did not know. It could lead people to become Jehovah's Witnesses and LDS and other such deceptions can emerge with the addings to scripture of new revelations.
There are sometimes deeper meanings to the author's words not known to the author at the time it was spoken.
 
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RDKirk

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The conventional understanding of Paul's meaning is in apostolic succession. The Baptist cessationist is a relatively new figure. Having said that, it has aged and most cessationists agree to become continuists. There is another poll in another thread.

It is the same point, just that the expressing of great things as small compared to love, refers to a list of real things rather than fiction.

Even if Paul's expression were limited to "all things a human can know," it would not diminish his meaning.

We would still clearly understand what he means. Indeed, those who see the expression as hyperbolic do not lose any inkling of his meaning.

Your distinction makes no difference; a distinction that makes no difference is no difference.
 
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RDKirk

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Yes, Paul was not saying he omniscient. Nor by hyperbole. My OP was that he would never have heard of the term.

There are multiple expressions in the OT of God knowing all things such that Paul would understand the concept even if he didn't have a specific single term at the time by which to express it.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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There are multiple expressions in the OT of God knowing all things such that Paul would understand the concept even if he didn't have a specific single term at the time by which to express it.
That restates one of my earlier posts.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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I agree. We must know what the author meant. What the author intends is limited not what was spoken.

There are sometimes deeper meanings to the author's words not known to the author at the time it was spoken.
Once it is not on the page and in the imagination, you can say anything you want. If someone tries to rebut you, all you need to do is imagine some more, and you can say, "I am in the Spirit". Then it is like you are Paul himself adding to a letter.

Revelation warns us not to add or subtract anything from that book.

Anyone can say they prophesy. Normally we test it by what is written in the Bible.

I do not believe there are meanings that are true in the Bible by God's intent, that the authors did not know of.
 
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