Why do we need any one denomination?

Albion said:

That's exactly what it means.

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No, it doesn't. It means that there is only one faith and the only way to maintain it is to have one church that God established. No one can force any two people to believe the same thing.

Albion said:

Assuming (incorrectly) that such is the meaning of Sola Scriptura or its purpose, your alternative produced just as much disunity -- or arguably more disunity -- than Sola Scripture, so that is no solution!

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Where does this disunity exist? Within the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Can even God ensure that all believe the same way-and adhere to her teachings, or those of any other entity that may have reason to vie for the position of understanding the faith correctly?

Albion said:

Almost none of that is accurate. It is mainly a recitation of what you would LIKE the situation to be...but is not.

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Nah, it's just the inconvenient truth.

fhansen said:

Where does this disunity exist?

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Well, to pick just two things, is Molinism correct, or Thomism? The Congregatio de Auxiliis promised us an answer.

And what are the answers to the dubia on Amoris laetitia?

And for a bonus question, does anyone really believe that accidents can exist while inhering in no substance, as the Tridentine Catechism says? If so, feel free to explain how.

fhansen said:

No, it doesn't. It means that there is only one faith and the only way to maintain it is to have one church that God established.

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Well, all I can say to that re-definition is that the meaning is clearcut and you can verify this by consulting almost any Bible commentary if you aren't willing to accept the plain meaning of the words themselves.

No one can force any two people to believe the same thing.

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And that is why we have doctrinal disputes and, sometimes, schisms such as when your church split from Constantinople and, later, from Canterbury.

Indeed, there probably is no denomination out of all that exist which has experienced more splits than the Roman Catholic Church, so it is a bit odd, to say the least, to have members of that church arguing as though it alone has never been involved in any.

Where does this disunity exist? Within the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

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You could say that, considering that the Catechism has been revised many times to keep up with changing beliefs.

Catechism change shows 'true dogmatic progress,' archbishop says

Radagast said:

Wrong.

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No I said right


denominate
verb
de·nom·i·nate | \ di-ˈnä-mə-ˌnāt , dē-\
denominated; denominating; denominates
Definition of denominate


transitive verb

1: to give a name to : DESIGNATE

LoveofTruth said:

1: to give a name to : DESIGNATE

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Not the same as "to make a name," then.

Radagast said:

Not the same as "to make a name," then.

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To give a name to a group or to make a name for a group is the sane

Radagast said:

Not the same as "to make a name," then.

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de·nom·i·nate
/dəˈnäməˌnāt/
Learn to pronounce
verb
“...FORMAL

1. call; name.
   "the whole train was denominated a “bull-outfit.”"
   synonyms: call, name, term, designate, style, dub, label, entitle;
   christen, baptize;
   archaicclepe
   "this baking process is technically denominated “setting the sponge”

LoveofTruth said:

de·nom·i·nate
/dəˈnäməˌnāt/
Learn to pronounce
verb
“...FORMAL

1. call; name.
   "the whole train was denominated a “bull-outfit.”"
   synonyms: call, name, term, designate, style, dub, label, entitle;
   christen, baptize;
   archaicclepe
   "this baking process is technically denominated “setting the sponge”

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LoveofTruth said:

To give a name to a group or to make a name for a group is the sane

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Hey, be honest. You initially claimed that "denominate" meant "to make a name" in the negative sense of Genesis 11:4, where "name" means reputation.

It clearly does not mean that. And if just giving things names was sinful, then Adam was sinning in Genesis 2:20, before the Fall.

Radagast said:

Well, to pick just two things, is Molinism correct, or Thomism? The Congregatio de Auxiliis promised us an answer.

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The church doesn't need to decide between any two schools of thought, regardless of who they derive from. So she teaches it as she's determined the truth to be, no more and no less:
600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of "predestination", he includes in it each person's free response to his grace: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place." For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance"

Radagast said:

And what are the answers to the dubia on Amoris laetitia?

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Amoris Laetitia has changed no Catholic dogma or doctrine.

Radagast said:

And for a bonus question, does anyone really believe that accidents can exist while inhering in no substance, as the Tridentine Catechism says? If so, feel free to explain how.

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It doesn't really matter because as long as one believes in the Real Presence they've already accepted that a supernatural event occurs with the Eucharist, something transcending and not bound by the natural order.

fhansen said:

The church doesn't need to decide between any two schools of thought, regardless of who they derive from. So she teaches it as she's determined the truth to be, no more and no less

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I have to say that this is a rather surprising thing to claim, given that the Ecumenical Councils and the Creeds come to us and are considered important by us for the reason that they were about that very need--to decide between two schools of thought.

Radagast said:

Hey, be honest. You initially claimed that "denominate" meant "to make a name" in the negative sense of Genesis 11:4, where "name" means reputation.

It clearly does not mean that. And if just giving things names was sinful, then Adam was sinning in Genesis 2:20, before the Fall.

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1 Corinthians 3:4. For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?”

I see Mystery Babylon connected with spiritual implications to the Babel builders in Genesis.

dzheremi said:

I don't know what denominations have to do with anything, but completely separate from whatever that question might mean, it should be reiterated that CF and computers and Bible software are not a substitute for going to church and participating in God there.

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What about people that have no physical means of attending church, that are limited by disability, transportation issues, live in remote places?

LoveofTruth said:

Hello and God bless.

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Hello and thank you...

LoveofTruth said:

Just curious what you mean when you say “born of water”?

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It's not what I mean, but rather what Jesus means when He teaches Nicodemus about the "New Birth." Jesus encounters Nicodemus, and Jesus knows what is on Nicodemus' mind. Jesus knows Nicodemus is familiar with Jesus and his teachings, miraculous works, etc. Nicodemus wants to know how to get to heaven. The the encounter is told primarily in John chapter 3.

John 3:1-21 Jesus Teaches Nicodemus; You Must Be Born Again

John 3:5 "Verily, Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

eleos1954 said:

What about people that have no physical means of attending church, that are limited by disability, transportation issues, live in remote places?

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I joined CF when I had M.E and couldn't get to church. It was, then, my only source of fellowship.

eleos1954 said:

What about people that have no physical means of attending church, that are limited by disability, transportation issues, live in remote places?

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That's me. I try to learn and pray in my one, but it is not the same.

Albion said:

I have to say that this is a rather surprising thing to claim, given that the Ecumenical Councils and the Creeds come to us and are considered important by us for the reason that they were about that very need--to decide between two schools of thought.

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I said the church doesn't need to. Theologians can argue all day long and the church may or may not come down on the side of one or the other-or some combined formulation, etc. Ultimately the Church decides, not the parties, or withholds a decision.

W2L said:

Why do we need any one denomination? We have the apostle's teaching, and CF for discussion, also computers and bible software. As Paul said, all things are ours.

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There has never been a time in history where the word of the Lord has been more available and more easily studied than now. Also bringing people from all over the world together and discussing scripture.

No doubt the Lords intension to be used for good .... no doubt satan uses it as well.

Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

eleos1954 said:

What about people that have no physical means of attending church, that are limited by disability, transportation issues, live in remote places?

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The Church goes to them.

Albion said:

Well, all I can say to that re-definition is that the meaning is clearcut and you can verify this by consulting almost any Bible commentary if you aren't willing to accept the plain meaning of the words themselves.

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I don't know why you insist on looking at it this way. We're discussing how, by what means, Christianity should arrive at and possess a unified body of beliefs, arrive at one faith. Do you believe there's more than one faith? If a person or a multitude of persons disagree with Lutheranism does that mean that Lutheran teachings don't form a unified whole? And that God prefers multiple denominations, that have, generally speaking, spun off from each other over doctrinal differences?

Albion said:

And that is why we have doctrinal disputes and, sometimes, schisms such as when your church split from Constantinople and, later, from Canterbury.

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And at some point, regardless of who split from the original, there was an original.

Albion said:

Indeed, there probably is no denomination out of all that exist which has experienced more splits than the Roman Catholic Church, so it is a bit odd, to say the least, to have members of that church arguing as though it alone has never been involved in any.

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The RCC still exists and dates from the beginning. Reformers, such as disgruntled priests and later on Anglicans did the splitting from one branch of the original Church. At the end of the day I don't care where one might find that historical Church-or what it's called. But it must, of necessity, exist visibly somewhere.

Albion said:

You could say that, considering that the Catechism has been revised many times to keep up with changing beliefs.

Catechism change shows 'true dogmatic progress,' archbishop says

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It's certainly been clarified and expanded as understanding increases-that should never end.

"Why do we need any one denomination? We have the apostle's teaching, and CF for discussion, also computers and bible software. As Paul said, all things are ours."

Hind sight is 2020. From the start they had no NT. Then all kinds of DIFFERENT people sayings beliefs were popping up. Then when you come late to the party so to speak.. who do you believe? Many took/take part of the truth to get others in.

So which ONE do you pick? ALL here are follow some part of some denomination. Yes they may say there not or don't go to Church. As if that means anything. Believe in gifts do you? Healing Tongues or they are gone.. on and on. What we believe well match to some degree a denomination.

One YES would think we can come together raise our hands or not.. on and on and worship the KING our savoir our GOD. We will.. theres coming a day when we stand side by side and all the LIES the enemy used to keep us apart will be gone forever. Where we can freely give our Father all the GLORY AND PRAISE