Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

MDC said:

Works are the direct result of being saved and the evidence of ones faith. Not the cause nor does it form the basis whatsoever in being justified before God. Christ and His merits saves and justifies by Gods grace. Do you believe this?

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Yes, I believe it...but if I go off and kill someone, I prove I don't believe HIM.
Jesus said the truth could save us from committing sin...in John 8:32-34.
Do you believe that?

We are supposed to be walking in the Spirit now, instead of in the flesh, and a murder isn't of the Spirit but of the flesh.
Those walking in the flesh will not be saved.

MDC said:

The beginning? Ok sure and I assume Christ and His atoning sacrifice isn’t enough to save either without your cooperative works?

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Don't YOU have to believe it?
Or is that labor not a work?
The whole idea of faith in Jesus "alone" is to nullify the required turn from sin and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
Who does that serve?

i think we can debate salvation for eternity but the truth remains true that those who sin shall die - and no one seems to live longer than hundred or so - so sin remains actively working in believers hearts.

The truth is that God's Spirit dwells in our hearts when we are believers in Jesus and saves us from ourselves in sinful flesh. He does that by setting us apart in our believing self from our selves in flesh.

Life lived in His Spirit is always saved, while life in flesh will always perish. These are the truths of the human heart. All within us that finds life in His loving truth is for eternally while our lives in flesh we need to be saved from. Time and Again! Every day anew. Till it rots of us.

Anyone thinking that they are saved because they believe in Jesus while they do untruthful or loveless things to their neighbour is missing the point of salvation. God's salvation not one moment in our lives but is ongoing. When we place our lives next to the truth's of God's word then we have that in us that is elected to rule with Christ and those in ourselves that are numbered to go. Life in God's loving truth is saved, life in loveless lies burns in hell.

This poem gives a clear example of what happens to us in our egocentric self when we meet up with Christ's loving truth.

Goat;
I never knew my life turned out to be a twin
and that I be the one who would always sin.
That my greedy and dishonest eyes
where the cause of all my inner lies.
What have my wilful deeds achieved
bringing trouble upon the things I believed?
My demise I have clearly seen
a goat in life I have clearly been.
Now I will not receive any grace
but be uprooted from my place.

Sheep;
i never knew my life turned out to be a twin
and i be the one who the crown would win.
That Jesus would show His grace to me
and from my enemies set me free.
Reigning beside Him over my being
His goodness over me is what i'm seeing.
In awe His Victory to celebrate
His love over me a triple A rate.
So i advise everyone to willingly die
to their big I.

MDC said:

Ones faithful obedience is not the issue. The issue is how one views ones works of faithfulness. The Bible teaches it’s the result of one who has been justified in Christ through faith alone. You and others believe it is the means to justification. The latter is void of faith in the gospel of Christ. The former sees Christ as the grounds for justification before God and works inevitably follows and is the direct result of being saved.. whether it be 30 fold 60 fold 100 fold. All Gods work in grace! The latter cannot BELIEVE Christ is sufficient to save and is why salvation can fail and be lost according to them. The former are completely resting in Christ and His merits as their assurance of salvation. See the difference? The former have faith in Christ. The latter are in unbelief in the promises of God in Christ

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Not at all friend, we are justified by faith not by works. But what is justification? Justification is being counted as righteous by God and when we receive the atonement of sin. Just because we have been counted as being righteous by God doesn’t mean we can’t be counted as unrighteous if we turn to sin. Romans 6:16 Paul said we are servants of the one whom we serve, either servants to sin resulting in death or servants of righteousness resulting in eternal life. In John 15 Jesus clearly explains that The Father has expectations of His children.

Phil W said:

I agree.
The "works" mentioned in scripture by both Jesus and Paul concern the works of the Mosaic Law.
Circumcision and dietary laws, etc. cannot save one.
Obedience to God can, and will, as we shall all face judgement on the last day.
What was it Jesus said?
"I never knew you, depart from me ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:23)
Some believe that we are already saved, when that won't be determined till the judgement of the great day.

It is just another doctrine that accommodates sin.

I may have quoted the wrong poster in this post, so if I did, please pardon my mistake.

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I think the scriptures that refer to believers as being saved means they have the hope of being saved but the hope of salvation can be revoked if we turn to a sinful way of life. If eternal security were true then John 15:2 and John 15:6 can’t be true as well as 2 Timothy 2:12.

Acts2:38 said:

So... let me get this straight.

You believe that you can turn your back on Christ, and Christ will still save you?

You will still have salvation EVEN if you turn your back?

Did I get that right?

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IF..... let me repeat IF A person is born again, redeem, saved, new creature or any other term people use to mean they have trusted in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sin, they may live in disobedience and willful sin- but Jesus promise is He will never leave or forsake them. So no they do not lose their salvation.

Do yu really believe that an omniscient , omnipotent, God who said saved people are the elect from the foundation of the world would lose one?

Jesus said:

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

ohn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Are you trying to tell all here that Jesus cannot save someone to the uttermost?

Are you saying that Jesus lied when He said that there is no way He would cast someone out?

Are you saying that Jesus did not die and pay the price for all individuals sins?

2 Corinthians 5:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

nolidad said:

IF..... let me repeat IF A person is born again, redeem, saved, new creature or any other term people use to mean they have trusted in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sin, they may live in disobedience and willful sin- but Jesus promise is He will never leave or forsake them. So no they do not lose their salvation.

Do yu really believe that an omniscient , omnipotent, God who said saved people are the elect from the foundation of the world would lose one?

Jesus said:

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

ohn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Are you trying to tell all here that Jesus cannot save someone to the uttermost?

Are you saying that Jesus lied when He said that there is no way He would cast someone out?

Are you saying that Jesus did not die and pay the price for all individuals sins?

2 Corinthians 5:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

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Not true. We are told to endure, overcome, be faithful as a part of life. So it's not an automatic auto-pilot kind of thing.

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life,...” (James 1:12).

“...He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

“To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,...” (Revelation 2:7).

"...He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:11).

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,...” (Revelation 3:5).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

We are told in the Bible to....

Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22).
Continue in God's grace (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
Continue in His goodness otherwise we can be cut off (Romans 11:21-22).

So things are not as you say.

nolidad said:

IF..... let me repeat IF A person is born again, redeem, saved, new creature or any other term people use to mean they have trusted in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sin,

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Trusting in Jesus (the man), The promised Messiah, is what gives a person eternal life.

His death and resurrection was proof (along with the many other miracles) that He (Jesus) was who He claimed to be The promised Messiah from the Old Testament prophecies. The death and resurrection should point a person back to the person of Jesus, to trust in Him for eternal life.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

BCsenior said:

I doubt that it does in secular Greek.
I'm told that some Greek words have different meanings
in the secular world vs. the Christian world.

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πίστις
Transliteration
pistis
Pronunciation
pē'-stēs πείθω (G3982)


πίστεως — 94x
πίστιν — 55x
πίστις — 36x
Dictionary Aids


Vine's Expository Dictionary: cvii. Additional Synonyms

KJV Translation Count — Total: 244x
The KJV translates Strong's G4102 in the following manner: faith (239x), assurance (1x), believe (with G1537) (1x), belief (1x), them that believe (1x), fidelity (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
   
   1. relating to God
      
      1. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
         
   2. relating to Christ
      
      1. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
         
   3. the religious beliefs of Christians
      
      
   4. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
      
2. fidelity, faithfulness
   
   
   1. the character of one who can be relied on.

We are saved not by faithfulness but by trust in Jesus!

However that saving faith because it causes the new birth and a new mind- produces good works. As time goes on the works should advance, but sin is not the issue.

Many times when the Lord is cleansing a person from a deep rooted sin- when He brings it to the surface, often a person will stumble often as the Lord is cleansing them.

Once again this is not a license or excuse for sin, but that sin does not stop God from accomplishing all He intends in the life of the believer!

Bible Highlighter said:

So things are not as you say.

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It is not as I say- but things are as the bible says and that is a person can never lose what is not theirs to begin with.

Philippians 1:6 [Full Chapter]
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good workin you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

ohn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Romans 10:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Now how about us needing to be overcomers?

Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Almost without exception the passages you list are either about surviving the end times (the 70th week of Daniel and not taking the mark), or for the purpose of rewards. They are not soteriological.

Phil W said:

How can you separate "believing" from "faith"?
You know, "the devils believe, and tremble".

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Obedience is the natural fruit of believers. Not the grounds to maintain justification as you and others are teaching. Seeing your works as the basis to maintain salvation equals to unbelief in the gospel of Christ

Phil W said:

Yes, I believe it...but if I go off and kill someone, I prove I don't believe HIM.
Jesus said the truth could save us from committing sin...in John 8:32-34.
Do you believe that?

We are supposed to be walking in the Spirit now, instead of in the flesh, and a murder isn't of the Spirit but of the flesh.
Those walking in the flesh will not be saved.

Click to expand...

Don’t go off and kill someone then

Phil W said:

Don't YOU have to believe it?
Or is that labor not a work?
The whole idea of faith in Jesus "alone" is to nullify the required turn from sin and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
Who does that serve?

Click to expand...

Do you believe Christ alone is sufficient to save apart from your works?

BNR32FAN said:

Not at all friend, we are justified by faith not by works. But what is justification? Justification is being counted as righteous by God and when we receive the atonement of sin. Just because we have been counted as being righteous by God doesn’t mean we can’t be counted as unrighteous if we turn to sin. Romans 6:16 Paul said we are servants of the one whom we serve, either servants to sin resulting in death or servants of righteousness resulting in eternal life. In John 15 Jesus clearly explains that The Father has expectations of His children.

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You say in the beginning we are justified by faith not by works then go on to explain how our works “maintains” our justification. Completely contradictory and shows that your first sentence is a smokescreen

Jeshu said:

i think we can debate salvation for eternity but the truth remains true that those who sin shall die - and no one seems to live longer than hundred or so - so sin remains actively working in believers hearts.

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You must be unaware of 1 Tim 5:24..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; (death), and some men they follow after."
I have already suffered my judgement, death, at my crucifixion with Christ.
I will live forever.
Don't confuse the condition of the vessel with "life".
Sin is no longer "working in this believer's heart".
Thanks be to God.

The truth is that God's Spirit dwells in our hearts when we are believers in Jesus and saves us from ourselves in sinful flesh. He does that by setting us apart in our believing self from our selves in flesh.

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It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
No fleshly mind, no vile affections, and no lusts are the marks of the believer in the NT.

Life lived in His Spirit is always saved, while life in flesh will always perish. These are the truths of the human heart. All within us that finds life in His loving truth is for eternally while our lives in flesh we need to be saved from. Time and Again! Every day anew. Till it rots of us.

Click to expand...

You can get rid of the "flesh" today, if you turn from sin, (repent of sin), and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your past sins, (Acts 2:38)...and crucifying the flesh, burying it, and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
A new creature. (2 Cor 5:17)