Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

Acts2:38 said:

Problem is, I think people are ignoring what "believe" is. It is a verb. You have to do something. Just uttering words "I believe" is only confessing. The bible also says we need to repent (Luke 13:3) and we need to be baptized (Acts 2:38).

Only when you are baptized, do you receive remission for sins and the Holy spirit Acts 2:38. It is only when your baptized, that you are IN Christ Galatians 3:27. It is only when you are in Christ, you receive spiritual blessings like Prayer Ephesians 1:3 (but you must have been baptized first)

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Believe is, examining the evidence the Bible presents that Jesus is the promised Messiah and is the one who gives eternal life.

If a person reads or hears a person teach, that Jesus is the promised Messiah and gives eternal life to anyone who will trust in Jesus for life.

And they believe the evidence given in the Bible, then they have eternal life. No confession is required.

The woman at the well was told by Jesus if she took a drink of the water (eternal life) He was offering she would never thirst again.

BCsenior said:

Why did Paul say that he did not come to baptize, but to preach the gospel?

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Because it wasnt Pauls job to. He was to go out to do missionary work. Paul himself was immersed. Paul also immersed a few people himself. So this argument you used is no good.

MDC said:

Anything you said before “but” is nullified by what you said afterwards. You cannot trust Christ alone to save you if you believe your works must play a part as the grounds for your salvation

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It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
May we please look for the escapes...for our salvation?
Or is that too much of our own doing to be considered Christians?

MDC said:

Anything you said before “but” is nullified by what you said afterwards. You cannot trust Christ alone to save you if you believe your works must play a part as the grounds for your salvation

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What if your works are triggered by your faith in God "alone"?

d taylor said:

No confession is required.

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Matthew 10:32-33

Acts 8:36-37 - Romans 10:9-10

?

BCsenior said:

I'll use the same excuse that those having no reasonable answer use:
"What about the thief on the cross?"

My answer:
God makes exceptions according to His soverign will and desire.

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No one can prove the thief wasnt already baptized. He surely had some understanding of Christ.

So this point is moot as well.

BCsenior said:

I'll use the same excuse that those having no reasonable answer use:
"What about the thief on the cross?"

My answer:
God makes exceptions according to His soverign will and desire.

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Just information stuff to ponder....

What About the Thief on the Cross?

nonaeroterraqueous said:

I don't want to quibble about whether or not we are to obey God and flee sin. I agree with you on that. However, the greatest commandment is to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and it is this love, which is faith, through which we are saved. We are not saved by the obedience, though all who genuinely love God will obey him.

It is also a sad irony that some would obey in order to save themselves with their works.

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Can you give an example of this, please?
You seem to be criminalizing obedience to God.
(I hope I'm wrong.)

nolidad said:

Well there is not one warning about a child of God who has been given eternal life- losing their salvation.

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How about Ananias and his wife Sapphira, in Acts 5?
Or those who draw back into perdition, in Hebrews 10?

nolidad said:

Well there is not one warning about a child of God who has been given eternal life- losing their salvation.

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Phil W said:

How about Ananias and his wife Sapphira, in Acts 5?
Or those who draw back into perdition, in Hebrews 10?

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Demas was said to have "loved the world" more and thus would lose salvation. He cared more for the world than to follow Christ apparently.

[Quote from a source]
Consider, for instance, the case of Demas. This brother is thrice mentioned in the New Testament and the testimony is one of spiritual degeneration. He is initially named in Philemon 24, where, along with Mark, Aristarchus, and Luke (good company), he is styled as one of Paul’s “fellowworkers.”

Next, he is mentioned with Luke in Colossians 4:14. And whereas Luke is complimented with the title “beloved physician,” it is just plain “Demas.” The silence is eloquent. That no epithet is attached to his name may be a shadow of that weakness which comes fully into view in 2 Timothy 4:10 where Paul writes: “Demas forsook me, having loved this present world.”

The comment of James is certainly appropriate to this case.

“Ye adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore would be a friend of the world maketh himself an enemy of God” (Jas. 4:3, 4).

Demas was a friend who became an enemy. And sadly, his spiritual kinsmen in today’s world are legion.

Acts2:38 said:

Just information stuff to ponder....

What About the Thief on the Cross?

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The thief on the cross illustrated water baptism...literally.
He was repentant.
He was crucified with Christ.
He was buried.
And he was promised that he would walk in newness of life by the Savior.
This is the synopsis of Romans 6:3-7.

BCsenior said:

“And we know that God causes everything to work together
for the good of those who love God and are called
according to his purpose for them.” (Romans 8:28)
These were predestined, called, justified, and glorified (8:29-30).

Those who truly love God obey Him by resisting temptations to sin!

“God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation.
Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God
has promised to those who love Him.” (James 1:12)
Believers who endure temptation:
● love God
● chose to be obedient to Jesus (see below)
● will receive the crown of (eternal) life

“Temptation comes from our own desires,
which entice us and drag us away.
These desires give birth to sinful actions.
And when sin is allowed to grow, it gives birth to death.
So, don’t be misled, my dear brothers and sisters.” (James 1:14-16)
Believers who do NOT endure temptation:
● will fall into habitual sin
● will receive spiritual (eternal) death …
UNLESS they sincerely repent (stop their habitual sinning).

Those who really love Jesus obey Him
“Those who accept My commandments and obey them
are the ones who love Me.” (John 14:21)
“All who love Me will do what I say.” (John 14:23)
“Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.” (John 14:24)
“When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love” (John 15:10)
“You are my friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)
Who gets to heaven who does not love Jesus, who is not His friend,
and who does not obey His commandments?

Slaves of sin -- OR -- slaves of obedience
“… if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one whom you obey,
either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death, OR
(slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

“… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:51)

“if you want to receive eternal life,
keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)

“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments
have life with God. But there is NO (eternal) life in those
who do not keep His commandments.”
(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, which was quoted as Scripture by early
Christian leaders such as Irenaeus, Origen, and Clement of Alexandria)

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Excellent nessage.

Obedience is the name of every game; it is automatic, and not expected to be separate from the desire to be a part of who/what one is being obedient to.

If you want a job, you need to be obedient to your boss. It doesn't matter if Greg from Accounting says that you can break company policy for the day - if you do it and your boss finds out, it could get you fired.

If you want to exist, you expect your body to obey you - when you tell your body to move your arm to the left, you expect it moves to the left no matter if it is in chains (before the Redeemer), or if it is free (after Resurrection).

Our Father expects us to be obedient, which is why He allowed us to have grace - keep trying to be perfect without the dread of condemnation as long as you repent. Perfection is demanded of us, and while none of us "on the whole" are perfect except the Redeemer, we can strive for sanctification. The Law should be a delight because it points out how degenerate we all are, but also let's you know your progress in behaving like a Child of God - so that you aren't confused or surprised.

BCsenior said:

“And we know that God causes everything to work together
for the good of those who love God and are called
according to his purpose for them.” (Romans 8:28)
These were predestined, called, justified, and glorified (8:29-30).

Those who truly love God obey Him by resisting temptations to sin!

“God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation.
Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God
has promised to those who love Him.” (James 1:12)
Believers who endure temptation:
● love God
● chose to be obedient to Jesus (see below)
● will receive the crown of (eternal) life

“Temptation comes from our own desires,
which entice us and drag us away.
These desires give birth to sinful actions.
And when sin is allowed to grow, it gives birth to death.
So, don’t be misled, my dear brothers and sisters.” (James 1:14-16)
Believers who do NOT endure temptation:
● will fall into habitual sin
● will receive spiritual (eternal) death …
UNLESS they sincerely repent (stop their habitual sinning).

Those who really love Jesus obey Him
“Those who accept My commandments and obey them
are the ones who love Me.” (John 14:21)
“All who love Me will do what I say.” (John 14:23)
“Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.” (John 14:24)
“When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love” (John 15:10)
“You are my friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)
Who gets to heaven who does not love Jesus, who is not His friend,
and who does not obey His commandments?

Slaves of sin -- OR -- slaves of obedience
“… if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one whom you obey,
either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death, OR
(slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

“… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:51)

“if you want to receive eternal life,
keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)

“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments
have life with God. But there is NO (eternal) life in those
who do not keep His commandments.”
(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, which was quoted as Scripture by early
Christian leaders such as Irenaeus, Origen, and Clement of Alexandria)

Click to expand...

Excellent nessage.

Obedience is the name of every game; it is automatic, and not expected to be separate from the desire to be a part of who/what one is being obedient to.

If you want a job, you need to be obedient to your boss. It doesn't matter if Greg from Accounting says that you can break company policy for the day - if you do it and your boss finds out, it could get you fired.

If you want to exist, you expect your body to obey you - when you tell your body to move your arm to the left, you expect it moves to the left no matter if it is in chains (before the Redeemer), or if it is free (after Resurrection).

Our Father expects us to be obedient, which is why He allowed us to have grace - keep trying to be perfect without the dread of condemnation as long as you repent. Perfection is demanded of us, and while none of us "on the whole" are perfect except the Redeemer, we can strive for sanctification. The Law should be a delight because it points out how degenerate we all are, but also let's you know your progress in behaving like a Child of God - so that you aren't confused or surprised.

Acts2:38 said:

Demas was said to have "loved the world" more and thus would lose salvation. He cared more for the world than to follow Christ apparently.

[Quote from a source]
Consider, for instance, the case of Demas. This brother is thrice mentioned in the New Testament and the testimony is one of spiritual degeneration. He is initially named in Philemon 24, where, along with Mark, Aristarchus, and Luke (good company), he is styled as one of Paul’s “fellowworkers.”

Next, he is mentioned with Luke in Colossians 4:14. And whereas Luke is complimented with the title “beloved physician,” it is just plain “Demas.” The silence is eloquent. That no epithet is attached to his name may be a shadow of that weakness which comes fully into view in 2 Timothy 4:10 where Paul writes: “Demas forsook me, having loved this present world.”

The comment of James is certainly appropriate to this case.

“Ye adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore would be a friend of the world maketh himself an enemy of God” (Jas. 4:3, 4).

Demas was a friend who became an enemy. And sadly, his spiritual kinsmen in today’s world are legion.

Click to expand...

Demas either was never saved, or just being a disobedient Christian- those are the two alternatives the Bible teaches.

Well I will leave who is or is not a kinsmen of Demas up to God where it belongs.

Mark also was one who forsook Paul. Paul and Barnabas fought so hard about including MArk again that they ended parting ways and never saw each other again! But at the end of His life- He said to bring Mark for he is useful to Him in the Ministry.

Someone living a life of sin- is definitely not showing the fruits of salvation! But that does not necessarikly mean they are unsaved. They may be just taken captive by sin. This is what 1 JOhn 1:9 is all about! God made us His children when we were His enemies- How much more will He pour mercy and grace upon us now that He has made us His dear Children through the blood of Jesus! Judicially, all of our sins have already been paid for and removed- experientially- we may experience the full brunt of the consequence of sin. Sin blocks our fellowship with god- but never hampers our relationship with God.

Phil W said:

How about Ananias and his wife Sapphira, in Acts 5?
Or those who draw back into perdition, in Hebrews 10?

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Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead- there is nothing implying they lost their salvation (if they were saved).

As for Hebrews 10:
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.

Favorites of those who believe that they can lose their salvation as well as
with Hebrews 6:4-6.

But that belief is only because these verses are pulled way out of their context!

A golden rule of interpretation is "A text taken out of context, becomes a pretext."

Hebrews 10 in context iss about Jews who were associating with and pondering becoming Christians.

In it s historical and doctrinal context- these are about Jews who had fully heard teh gospel, had their minds enlightened that Jesus was truly the Messiah and that teh blood of bulls and goats could not forgive sin. They had a sample of the Christian inner life, saw clearly how to be saved and because of the persecution and cost of becoming Christian were considering rejecting Jesus and going back to teh sacrificial system. When one does a deep word study of this passage and Hebrews 6, one sees these people being written to were "on the verge" of being saved but thinking of rejecting Jesus blood for the blood of bulls and goats.

Given the nearness of the judgment for the unpardonable sin (the destruction of Jerusalem), they were being warned that not only spirituyal, but physical destruction would come on them.

nolidad said:

Demas either was never saved, or just being a disobedient Christian- those are the two alternatives the Bible teaches.

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It literally states in one scripture "fellow worker" and in another "forsook loving the world" instead. In all forms of grammar, it tells the reader, this guys stopped being part of the brotherhood of Christians.

nolidad said:

Well I will leave who is or is not a kinsmen of Demas up to God where it belongs.

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I would agree, though, I am only reciting what scripture, God's word, says.

nolidad said:

Mark also was one who forsook Paul. Paul and Barnabas fought so hard about including MArk again that they ended parting ways and never saw each other again! But at the end of His life- He said to bring Mark for he is useful to Him in the Ministry.

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However, not once did it say Mark "forsake" him. They just could not get along. It would have been better for them to part ways then instead of hang out further and create "stumbling blocks".

Anyway, Mark never left to "loving the world" more like Demas did. So this situational argument cannot be used for this purpose.

nolidad said:

Someone living a life of sin- is definitely not showing the fruits of salvation! But that does not necessarikly mean they are unsaved. They may be just taken captive by sin.

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Doesn't it say somewhere that sin leads to death? Meaning, eternal destruction from the presence of God. I bring 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 as at least one piece of evidence among many more in scripture that I can pull.

I'm talking about the people who sin, realize they sinned, and do not repent of it. You and I both know there are supposed "Christians" that do this.

nolidad said:

This is what 1 JOhn 1:9 is all about!

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Yes, I agree. For those who can come to repentance. If one does not repent after realizing their transgressions, how can they be forgiven?