Church discipline against me. is this a Right? Letter from church attached.

LaBèlla said:

Have you received financial assistance from the Church? If your arrangement was agreeable to both it’s unlikely she’d seek their input on the issue.

If you’re caring for children or aging parents at home and work less to do so that’s understandable.

But the tone of the letter and the specific issues raised gives the impression you have chosen to work less because she earns more. And she’s carrying the financial burden and that wasn’t your agreement.

This isn’t the first time they’ve conversed. Or sought to address the matter either. I agree that counseling is needed. But it also appears there’s something amiss.

It would seem this is an ongoing problem given the references. And they’ve raised concerns in the past that were ignored. Now the letter has come. They’ve taken the next step to correct the behavior.

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You presume to know an awful lot. Care to explain whence your knowledge comes? Because surely you're not taking their statements on face value?

DanishLutheran said:

You presume to know an awful lot. Care to explain whence your knowledge comes? Because surely you're not taking their statements on face value?

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Have you responded to every comment on the thread as such? Or did you decide to single out mine instead? I shared an opinion. We have multiple pages of others doing the same. I think I’ve explained enough.

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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Wow.......what a shining jewel of utter ignorance that letter reveals. I find nowhere in the Scriptures that indicates how MUCH you are to bring in or HOW you are to work (i.e., full time or part time).

I get the feeling that they want you working a "productive" job so they can turn around and send you a letter shaming you if you don't TITHE to them.

You need to find another place.

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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It's hard to judge such a situation without knowing all the facts involved. If you were disabled that would be a different situation. The church states in the beginning of the letter that they know about your financial situation for some time (and imply that it is not good). Either your wife exaggerated and lied about your financial status to the church, or she is telling the truth and there are legit concerns like trying to save for retirement (to work for the Lord full time), and or not live paycheck to paycheck (and just getting by with no means to start a family or go on vacation together and love one another).

A full time job or a part time job that makes more money would show that you love your wife. Even if you were financially okay in your opinion, she is unhappy, and your goal should be to please the Lord and your wife in this life. This life is not about ourselves but it is about loving God and loving others.

Yes, maybe the church went overboard and they are believing lies or something by your wife, and they are overstepping their boundaries into your life (of which you did not ask for them to do). Maybe they seem controlling and they are not being totally fair here. I know, if I received such a letter, I would feel betrayed by my wife in her doing this. But we have to be better than others. Maybe she did not handle things right. Maybe the church did not handle things right. But a believer in Jesus Christ (who is faithful to the Lord) can break any cycle of sin within their family by the power and help of the Lord.

We have to love God and love others (even if they are not perfect). My first reaction is that I would not seek to fellowship with them if they are so easily deceived into making quick judgments without any real proof (unless your financial status was assessed officially by a private loan lender, mortgage lender, etc.). Did she show them unpaid bills? Did she show the church that you cannot pay off the full amount on the credit cards each month and you can only pay the minimum or a lesser amount (Which eats you up alive with interest)? For how can they truly know your finances? If you were to try and get an approval letter on a house, would you think you would get approved? Is your credit score good? (Note: You can check it for free with Bankrate.com).

Now, I am not saying that you are doing so, but if you are sitting around all day and just watching secular movies (and not Christian ones to inspire you to follow the Lord) instead of working or you are just on the computer all day (for non-biblical reasons), and you are not working for the Lord and not seeking to help others, this of course is wrong, my dear friend. We have to live to love God and others. If your wife is worried about the finances, but God is first in your life, she would want to help you to work hard at trying to reach others for the Lord (via by the internet, or by bible studies, street preaching, or handing out tracts, helping the poor, training other brothers in righteous living, etc.). If not, then she needs to know that you can provide for her as you follow God.

But if you are idle and doing nothing outside of your part time job, then my dear friend, you need to seek more the Lord and read His Word and put it on the inside of you. God's Word can change our hearts and lives. Jesus can change our heart and His love can over spill into your family (Both upon your wife and your church). Love them with the love of the Lord. Forgive them with God's power. Show them the true love of God. Prove that you are better than what they say about you. Let their false accusations (if they are not true) roll off you like water. So get a full time job or a better paying part time job or take up another part time job, and find ways to love them. But make following the Lord Jesus Christ the #1 thing in your life and get in the Word of God even more every day. Pray to the Lord for help; And He will help you.

It is possible that there could be blame to go around on both sides. I do not know. I am not God to know everyone's heart, thoughts, actions in this situation. I can only go off the information you provided. Based on the information you provided, I would love. Love God and love others more than you ever have before. Maybe hand out tracts, Christian DVD's, help the poor more and let your church know about your activities. Love your wife more than you have. Go above and beyond to love her. Open the car door, get her flowers. Tell her you are sorry for not being as sensible to her needs. Tell her you love her in a love letter. Make her breakfast in bed. Tell her that you would like to go on a romantic vacation get away and that you will work hard to change things. Do more than what they are willing to do. Work 40 hours and then also help others more than they are so they will feel embarrassed. By doing so, this problem will disappear or you will learn in time to be at peace about it (even if others may be unfair to your unique situation).

I hope that what I said here helps;
And may God's goodness be upon you and your family.

Sincerely,

~ J.

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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I would recommend in trying to see this Christian movie in limited theaters.
It may help your situation.


Showtimes and locations can be found at the bottom of this website:

Play The Flute Movie

Leave that church as it is totally unChristian.

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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I think that it's very important to understand the situation of the Thessalonians. Paul is very clear that he preached about Jesus' second coming. Apparently, according to the first letter, they were expecting that event to come immediately. Also, some of them decided to quit their jobs and just wait for Jesus to come. That is the basis for Paul's admonitions in these letters.

Therefore, the church is misusing Scripture to fit the situation. On the other hand, if you can work, I suggest that you get a full-time job, since this seems to be the source of your wife's anger at you. Also, I agree with the above observations about the need for marriage counseling.

There are fewer and fewer true churches who treat the Word for what it is these days. If you started this post and asked this question because you really want the answer then here it is. ---SE--- If your church is disciplining you with true discipline as this letter States, then count it all joy, bow your head low, and get on your knees and ask God Almighty to forgive you for not providing for your family. Then get out there and get that job and receive the rewards of providing for your family. If you are a man, this is the basics of what you were made to do. The Bible says if a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat. I work more than 40 hours a week, come home and mow the yard when it needs it, do all the laundry every week, help with the kids and supper and baths, and every once in a while dishes lol. This letter from the church sounds like a last ditch effort from a wife who is at her witts end on getting her husband to follow Biblical principles. Now I say that not as a judgement call but only looking from the outside in. Only you know and God knows your heart. If this truly is you, the shame comes in not heeding God's beautiful Grace to turn things around today. It's all up to you. Show your wife that you're ready to be the leader of the household that God made you to be. The church will forgive you, God will most definitely forgive you, and your wife will forgive you. You will see your marriage flourish like be we before. When we do things God's way things work for our good and His glory. Amen.

Worship4HIM said:

There are fewer and fewer true churches who treat the Word for what it is these days. If you started this post and asked this question because you really want the answer then here it is. ---SE--- If your church is disciplining you with true discipline as this letter States, then count it all joy, bow your head low, and get on your knees and ask God Almighty to forgive you for not providing for your family. Then get out there and get that job and receive the rewards of providing for your family. If you are a man, this is the basics of what you were made to do. The Bible says if a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat. I work more than 40 hours a week, come home and mow the yard when it needs it, do all the laundry every week, help with the kids and supper and baths, and every once in a while dishes lol. This letter from the church sounds like a last ditch effort from a wife who is at her witts end on getting her husband to follow Biblical principles. Now I say that not as a judgement call but only looking from the outside in. Only you know and God knows your heart. If this truly is you, the shame comes in not heeding God's beautiful Grace to turn things around today. It's all up to you. Show your wife that you're ready to be the leader of the household that God made you to be. The church will forgive you, God will most definitely forgive you, and your wife will forgive you. You will see your marriage flourish like be we before. When we do things God's way things work for our good and His glory. Amen.

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Interesting first post

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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While laziness is deemed wrong, you clearly are not if you are truly working at a job and around the house. The amount of money one makes does not define them as a Christian. A Christian man does what he can to provide for, protect, and lead his family in God’s word. And at the moment, based solely on your claim as a hard worker, even at a low-paying job, shows you are not going against that verse. There are even at-home-dads while the wife may be the one at work. This is not a sin either. However, it becomes a sin if the father, or even the mother, isolated themselves from the family and/or puts no work into his/her own faith nor into providing for and leading the family in God’s word. I highly suggest finding a new church as it is clear that your current church has skewed views on certain verses, and I suggest you find a Christian marriage counselor to help you and your wife discuss the situation and find a resolution in God’s name.

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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Personally, I don't think there is enough information here to make a proper judgment. Your wife going to the church and you turning to social media is probably more of a concern than the church letter. Sounds like the communication in the marriage is a problem and you two need to sit down and reconnect as to the direction of the marriage and the expectations of the two of you. Throwing scriptures around won't get anything accomplished. You need to sit down with your wife and figure this thing out.

Worship4HIM said:

There are fewer and fewer true churches who treat the Word for what it is these days. If you started this post and asked this question because you really want the answer then here it is. ---SE--- If your church is disciplining you with true discipline as this letter States, then count it all joy, bow your head low, and get on your knees and ask God Almighty to forgive you for not providing for your family. Then get out there and get that job and receive the rewards of providing for your family. If you are a man, this is the basics of what you were made to do. The Bible says if a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat. I work more than 40 hours a week, come home and mow the yard when it needs it, do all the laundry every week, help with the kids and supper and baths, and every once in a while dishes lol. This letter from the church sounds like a last ditch effort from a wife who is at her witts end on getting her husband to follow Biblical principles. Now I say that not as a judgement call but only looking from the outside in. Only you know and God knows your heart. If this truly is you, the shame comes in not heeding God's beautiful Grace to turn things around today. It's all up to you. Show your wife that you're ready to be the leader of the household that God made you to be. The church will forgive you, God will most definitely forgive you, and your wife will forgive you. You will see your marriage flourish like be we before. When we do things God's way things work for our good and His glory. Amen.

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Amen. How true that is! Praise God. I was very disappointed by many posts asking the OP to leave the church which does not solve anything but causes more harm than good.

What a blessing it is to have a church that stays true to the word and discipline their congregation as they are commanded to do so. And what a blessing it is for a man to lead the household and meet the family finances. It is not about already having plenty of money but its about taking up their own cross, making sacrifices, peace and following biblical principles.

No church is perfect but they are trying to do their best part with godly wisdom they received in prayer through spirit. My heart goes out to the church and the OP and his wife. We do not know all the details very clearly, but to those who judge to leave the church, for with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:2.

GraceBro said:

Personally, I don't think there is enough information here to make a proper judgment. Your wife going to the church and you turning to social media is probably more of a concern than the church letter. Sounds like the communication in the marriage is a problem and you two need to sit down and reconnect as to the direction of the marriage and the expectations of the two of you. Throwing scriptures around won't get anything accomplished. You need to sit down with your wife and figure this thing out.

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True. There is a book called "His needs, Her needs" that can transform marriages with the help of the Holy Spirit of course. If the Husband and Wife can go through the book together, and really take a good hard look in the mirror, that book study really digs deep into the heart and starts to bring back the love that is still there somewhere. Saved my marriage some years ago. PTL.

This call for advice reminds me of a true story I read about a new pastor starting off at his first church. There was an active member in this church who wanted his daughter to be married there. After a bit of discussion the new pastor says, "I can't do a wedding marrying a non-believing divorced man to a Christian girl."

Soon thereafter, the pastor met with the elders and laid out the Scripture on being unequally yoked. He said, "Who's church is this? Is this your church, or is this the church of the Lord Jesus Christ?" And one elder said, "We can't do it at all here. We can't do this wedding here."

When a church follows Scripture in how they conduct themselves, they bring Glory to God.

The letter attached in this post appears to be from a church founded upon the Word of God and dedicated first and foremost to the Glory of God. Those types of churches rarely write knee-jerk reactive letters in response to one-time spousal reports regarding slacker husbands. This is far from a knee-jerk reactive type letter, rather it's well thought out and delivered with the love of Christ, rooted in scripture, and accompanied by sincere prayer for this couple to be restored together and faithful to our LORD.

This scenario, as revealed through this post and subsequent responses from the original poster, drips with the sadness and dispair over a wife and husband who's already been deeply involved in marriage counseling, financial counseling, and several instances of one-on-one counseling. There's a lot of pride on display through the claim "I'm not at fault, it's not me...please validate me and my position."

For all outward appearances: The wife is trying to help, the church is trying to help, the pastors and counselors are trying to help, other people offering their prayers are trying to help, God's Word is on full display here to help...

You ask, "Is this right..."

Aabbie James said:

This call for advice reminds me of a true story I read about a new pastor starting off at his first church. There was an active member in this church who wanted his daughter to be married there. After a bit of discussion the new pastor says, "I can't do a wedding marrying a non-believing divorced man to a Christian girl."

Soon thereafter, the pastor met with the elders and laid out the Scripture on being unequally yoked. He said, "Who's church is this? Is this your church, or is this the church of the Lord Jesus Christ?" And one elder said, "We can't do it at all here. We can't do this wedding here."

When a church follows Scripture in how they conduct themselves, they bring Glory to God.

The letter attached in this post appears to be from a church founded upon the Word of God and dedicated first and foremost to the Glory of God. Those types of churches rarely write knee-jerk reactive letters in response to one-time spousal reports regarding slacker husbands. This is far from a knee-jerk reactive type letter, rather it's well thought out and delivered with the love of Christ, rooted in scripture, and accompanied by sincere prayer for this couple to be restored together and faithful to our LORD.

This scenario, as revealed through this post and subsequent responses from the original poster, drips with the sadness and dispair over a wife and husband who's already been deeply involved in marriage counseling, financial counseling, and several instances of one-on-one counseling. There's a lot of pride on display through the claim "I'm not at fault, it's not me...please validate me and my position."

For all outward appearances: The wife is trying to help, the church is trying to help, the pastors and counselors are trying to help, other people offering their prayers are trying to help, God's Word is on full display here to help...

You ask, "Is this right..."

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That kind of Church's devotion to following Gods word just makes me sob with tears of joy. In this world we live in where everybody's falsely using Gods word to say don't judge lest ye be judged and therefore stifling their ability to be fruit inspectors, it's actually refreshing to see a Pastor/Church or Eldor team use discipline in the right way to help their congregation walk in HIS ways.

I served a three year term as an elder at my church and had to hear/deal with all kinds of sin issues in the church, and a lot of stuff nobody ever wants to deal with. Lol. I was always pleased with the way our Pastor dealt with things with just the right amount of grace and discipline when it came to his recommendations to the elders. Just like this posts letter, the church should always be about reconciliation even after discipline. It's a beautiful example of Gods way of dealing with us. He always has His arms open even if and when He has to discipline us.
The problem with so many now days is they are not willing to accept discipline as a necessity to spiritual growth. Those that do however, find Gods love and grace on the other end of that discipline is like none other. Praise Him for His ever loving grace and mercy.

I pray that this husband has found this discipline to be the very necessity to grow him towards obedience to the word. The very fact that it's caused so much strife in their marriage tells a very big story all by itself. One of the rules I go by in my marriage is that if something is causing a big issue I take it to God and His word. If one of us is proven wrong or to have sinned according to the word then there's no contest. If the word says it, neither one of us have anything else to say about it. There's another thing many need to learn today. The word IS the final say.

Be blessed everyone and remember, God wants us all to live in peace especially when it comes to our spouse. Not always easy, but is expected. Get the book "His needs, Her needs" if you need help.

I strongly suggest marriage counseling outside of the church.

I am worried that your wife has an unhealthy relationship/attachment with one of your church leaders. And vice versa.

The church is actively taking steps to separate you from your wife. This is a really bad sign.

Things will get worse unless you get an outside counselor to help both of you work out your struggles.

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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What is preventing you from earning more?

Spiccoli said:

We don’t need more. Food on the table, bills paid, clothes. Just to be an American consumer?

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Money for retirement, maybe?

College fund for your daughter, perhaps?

Have you spoken to your wife about her concerns yet?