About the resurrection and heavenly existence

Sam91 · Jul 14, 2019

devin553344 said:
You aren't Catholic then I suppose

No, scrolled up then to check which forum I was in.

I did not think of Catholics, or any other denomination when I said that. I thought of my friend in the real world who gets sidetracked by many things and false ideas. Some she dreams up herself and others she finds on youtube, supposed Christian audiobooks etc. Then her enthusiasm takes over and says fanciful things, quite not realising that it isn't glorifying to God. She doesn't mean it and is innocent at heart.

However, I did get a sense of foreboding. Whether it is from me or God I don't know. I would rather listen to it in case it is discernment given or caution from the Lord. I also feel better giving a warning in case before leaving you all to it.

devin553344 · Jul 14, 2019

Sam91 said:
No, scrolled up then to check which forum I was in.

I did not think of Catholics, or any other denomination when I said that. I thought of my friend in the real world who gets sidetracked by many things and false ideas. Some she dreams up herself and others she finds on youtube, supposed Christian audiobooks etc. Then her enthusiasm takes over and says fanciful things, quite not realising that it isn't glorifying to God. She doesn't mean it and is innocent at heart.

However, I did get a sense of foreboding. Whether it is from me or God I don't know. I would rather listen to it in case it is discernment given or caution from the Lord. I also feel better giving a warning in case before leaving you all to it.

Thanks, I would like to know as much as I can about angels, as the more you know the better off you'll be. At least that's how I see it. For instance, before this conversation about angels I thought resurrected beings were angels. But now, knowing more, I understand that we are not going to be angels, but will be equal with the angels, like angels and as the angels.

PS sorry to hear about your friend, I do understand that some people get very confused about spirits and such.

Sam91 · Jul 14, 2019

devin553344 said:
Thanks, I would like to know as much as I can about angels, as the more you know the better off you'll be. At least that's how I see it. For instance, before this conversation about angels I thought resurrected beings were angels. But now, knowing more, I understand that we are not going to be angels, but will be equal with the angels, like angels and as the angels.

PS sorry to hear about your friend, I do understand that some people get very confused about spirits and such.

I think the best place to learn is from the Bible. So many false ideas around so people should be careful not to pick those up.

You make a good point about getting rid of mistaken ideas. I hadn't thought of that. Pay attention to the verses people direct you to within the Bible and carefully weigh what is said by people against what is in the Bible.

Sam91 · Jul 14, 2019

devin553344 said:
Thanks, I would like to know as much as I can about angels, as the more you know the better off you'll be. At least that's how I see it. For instance, before this conversation about angels I thought resurrected beings were angels. But now, knowing more, I understand that we are not going to be angels, but will be equal with the angels, like angels and as the angels.

PS sorry to hear about your friend, I do understand that some people get very confused about spirits and such.

40 Top Bible Verses About Angels - Scripture to Be Inspired!

devin553344 · Jul 14, 2019

Sam91 said:
I think the best place to learn is from the Bible. So many false ideas around so people should be careful not to pick those up.

You make a good point about getting rid of mistaken ideas. I hadn't thought of that. Pay attention to the verses people direct you to within the Bible and carefully weigh what is said by people against what is in the Bible.

Yes there has been a lot of scripture quoted in this thread, which is how I was able to form my beliefs regarding the resurrection and angels.

devin553344 · Jul 14, 2019

Post #11 by @eleos1954 was instrumental in helping me understand regarding angels and also the resurrection difference. There is some key scripture in that post. There were other good posts also

His student · Jul 14, 2019

AntiVillain said:
Then what's the point of being physically able?

Maybe so we can have something to pee through?

All kidding aside - I didn't write the book. Don't shoot me. I'm just the messenger.

By the way - you do believe the scriptures don't you?

AntiVillain said:
In that case, I'd rather be physically unable; at least then, I wouldn't have a permanent reminder.

I'm sure if you still feel that way in glory - God can fix you right up.

After all - He's the one Who said of those of the circumcision "I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!"

But seriously I doubt that you'll feel that way when you see through the glass more clearly when you're glorified, see Him face to face, and are just like Him.

AntiVillain said:
I.e., robots?

No more so than is the Son of Man.

Mercy74 · Jul 14, 2019

eleos1954 said:
There are a few verses that describe the physical appearance of angels as having wings and such ... but there are also instances where they were in human form as well ... so kind of hard to figure ???? They are indeed a very different type of created beings than we are.

But we do have this .... Regarding Jesus after His resurrection.

Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have (Luke 24:39).

Jesus wanted us to know that we will have real bodies.

then we have this ...

1 Corinthians 15:44
New Living Translation
They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

So spiritual bodies are related to being/having eternal existence ... bodies existing eternally.

We will have real bodies flesh and bones ... but will never die and that's what makes our new bodies spiritual and will have supernatural abilities surpassing those of the angels because we were made in the image of God ... the angels were not.

Here's a few things about angels.

Angels never die (Luke 20:36).

They are stronger than man, but not omnipotent (Psalm 103:20; 2 Peter 2:11).

They are greater than man in knowledge, but not omniscient (2 Samuel 14:20; Matthew 24:36).

Good angels are more noble and holy than man (Daniel 9:21-23, 10:10-14).

Good angels can take on the appearance of men (supernaturally) when the occasion demands. How else could some “entertain angels unaware” (Hebrews 13:2)? On the other hand, their appearance is sometimes in dazzling white and blazing glory (Matthew 28:2-4).

Like us, angels have a free will and can be tempted. (ie fall of Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels)

Angels do not marry or reproduce (Matthew 22:30). Angels are a company or association, not a race descended from a common ancestor (Luke 20:34-36). Different kind of beings created by God.

Very mysterious are angels .... can't wait to meet them ;o)

It says raised "spiritual bodies" not spirits. As a seed has a body before it is buried, but after the seed is buried it is raised with a different body that is able to fruit. The seed never becomes a spirit, but it is given a spiritual body that is able to bear much fruit.

devin553344 · Jul 14, 2019

Mercy74 said:
It says raised "spiritual bodies" not spirits. As a seed has a body before it is buried, but after the seed is buried it is raised with a different body that is able to fruit. The seed never becomes a spirit, but it is given a spiritual body that is able to bear much fruit.

I like that we will be raised spiritual bodies. The spirit is pure and the body defiled.

Mercy74 · Jul 14, 2019

devin553344 said:
The bible spells out: Matthew 22:30

New International Version:

"At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven"

KJV:

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

So KJV indicates we will become angels, the the new international version is that we will be something like angels.

So which is it, will people be made into angels of God in heaven after the resurrection?

The problem is that the widow with several husbands is not able to be "fruitful and multiply". The question asked by the Saducees whose husband will she become at the ressurrection? She is only to allowed to remarry because she has born no children; the Saducees did not believe in the resurrection is heard clearly through this peculiar scenario. Yeshua mentions "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" , Abraham had many descendents although his body was very old, good as dead. Sarah got pregnant when she was over 90 years old, so she can not remarry even if Abraham were to die before her. A widow that bore children were not permitted to remarry, so a widow could not bear anymore children; she has become like the angels in heaven that do not marry or bear children.

Radagast · Jul 14, 2019

devin553344 said:
Right but if I say, "you will be visiting them as president"

If you choose to read a Bible written in archaic English, you can't use your understanding of modern English to interpret it.

In this passage, "as" in the KJV does indeed mean "like." It translates the original Greek hōs (G5613) which means "like" (or "as" with the meaning of "like").

The same word is used in Matthew 10:16, which talks about the disciples being like sheep, serpents, and doves, not actually being sheep, serpents, and doves.

devin553344 · Jul 14, 2019

Radagast said:
If you choose to read a Bible written in archaic English, you can't use your understanding of modern English to interpret it.

In this passage, "as" in the KJV does indeed mean "like." It translates the original Greek hōs (G5613) which means "like" (or "as" with the meaning of "like").

The same word is used in Matthew 10:16, which talks about the disciples being like sheep, serpents, and doves, not actually being sheep, serpents, and doves.

Thanks I was waiting for a language expert to expand on that. I am not a language expert.

Mercy74 · Jul 15, 2019

devin553344 said:
Right but if I say, "you will be visiting them as president", then you are acting president? To me the KJV indicates we will be angels. How can it mean like? I'm trying to understand why people don't think we will be angels, also because if not then who are these angels and where do they come from? Are they not Gods children or are they some other people?

Is there reference in the bible regarding angels identifying them as those that have died and been resurrected? I'll look.

The first command given "Be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:28). The second command is like the first "you are free to eat from any tree in the garden" (Genesis 2:16). A good tree bears good fruit; a bad tree bears bad fruit. Nevertheless a tree bears fruit. The key understanding of the resurrection is found in these two principles or commands. A seed must die and be buried before it is given a supernatural body that bears much fruit. The resurrection is about a family tree. Those born of the spirit (angels) are like the wind; you don't know where they come from or where they are going (John 3:8). That which is born of the spirit is spirit; that which is born of the flesh is flesh.

eleos1954 · Jul 15, 2019

Mercy74 said:
It says raised "spiritual bodies" not spirits. As a seed has a body before it is buried, but after the seed is buried it is raised with a different body that is able to fruit. The seed never becomes a spirit, but it is given a spiritual body that is able to bear much fruit.

Yeah ... and that's what was put forth ... a spiritual body is a heavenly body that is given to us at the first resurrection ... it is spiritual because the body (after resurrection) is residing in the heavenly realm ... also ... as Jesus demonstrated ... we will have a body of flesh and bones residing in the heavenly realm.

1st Corinthians 15:45

45 The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. 46 What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man.49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly man.

Luke 24:39

See My hands and My feet, that I am He. Touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see Me having."

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Job 19:26
Even after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God.

Isaiah 66:22

22“For just as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, will endure before Me,” declares the LORD, “so your descendants and your name will endure. 23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.

d taylor · Jul 15, 2019

Angels are men.

Now while I was speaking, praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God, yes, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, “O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you skill to understand

Strong's Concordance
ish: man
Original Word: אִישׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: ish
Phonetic Spelling: (eesh)
Definition: man

Bruce Leiter · Jul 15, 2019

devin553344 said:
The bible spells out: Matthew 22:30

New International Version:

"At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven"

KJV:

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

So KJV indicates we will become angels, the the new international version is that we will be something like angels.

So which is it, will people be made into angels of God in heaven after the resurrection?

I think that you are misreading the KJV, which uses the word "as." That use must mean a comparison between our existence and that of angels. In other words, when we are resurrected, we will not be married, the way the angels are. Always, always, always, consider the meaning of a verse's context, in this case, the verses before it, about the "problem" that the religious authorities brought to Jesus. He's just saying that we won't be married in the resurrection (both NIV and KJV).

~Zao~ · Jul 15, 2019

What it could mean by "they will be like the angels in heaven”, the Spirit of Heaven is the Spirit in the power of which the angels do God’s will there. Since the marriage of the Lamb is all that counts then neither will there be other marriages. Which is also the sign of submission in the sight of the angels.

Mercy74 · Jul 15, 2019

eleos1954 said:
Yeah ... and that's what was put forth ... a spiritual body is a heavenly body that is given to us at the first resurrection ... it is spiritual because the body (after resurrection) is residing in the heavenly realm ... also ... as Jesus demonstrated ... we will have a body of flesh and bones residing in the heavenly realm.

1st Corinthians 15:45

45 The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. 46 What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man.49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly man.

Luke 24:39

See My hands and My feet, that I am He. Touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see Me having."

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Job 19:26
Even after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God.

Isaiah 66:22

22“For just as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, will endure before Me,” declares the LORD, “so your descendants and your name will endure. 23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.

Earthly people are like the earthly man; heavenly people (angles) are like the heavenly man. We (Israel) are now like the earthly man, Israel already gave birth to the heavenly man.

Jen35 · Jul 15, 2019

Sam91 said:
Jesus is God, not an angel. Angels are created. Colossians 1:16

I meant he is an angel cause of his beautiful spirit and heart ...

eleos1954 · Jul 15, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Earthly people are like the earthly man; heavenly people (angles) are like the heavenly man. We (Israel) are now like the earthly man, Israel already gave birth to the heavenly man.

sorry, but not following exactly what you are trying to get across here

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