Church discipline against me. is this a Right? Letter from church attached.

I think all couples should establish guidelines regarding finances and private affairs. Ideally, you’d come to an agreement about spiritual support and whom you’re comfortable sharing with.

I would specifically address groups and public prayer lists too. Intimate discussions on marital problems are common for each.

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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Why don't you find a full time job?

With respect to people's questions about the OP's job and marriage. I have my questions too, but this is the advice forum and the advice being sought was on the letter, which we have the unusual opportunity to see first hand. I just think this is important to keep in mind.

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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This is an assault on you in pursuit of ill gotten gain.

Politely, I will tell you that you are being used and anyone who would disgrace you so publicly by having this letter drafted does not have your best interest at heart.

This church is no family to you, but a poor imitation of the BOC.

I would “Surround” yourself with more positive people. (Read in-between the lines).

This is a disgrace to the person that had this generated, not to the one receiving it.

I’m very sorry your personal life has been insulted so severely.

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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This is awesome, sure I would have said it a little differently. I WISH THE CHURCHES I ATTENDED DID THIS TO ME WHEN I WAS JOBLESS. Accountability is sooo important and it is lacking in these degenerate times.

You don't realize that this sort of discipline was practiced in early 17th century Protestant churches. There was one instance that the elders wrote to a man who irregularly attended church as a member and was often visiting another church that was up for question. Men I respect, some of whom many of you know (John Bunyan, Nehemiah Coxe, etc), were among the elders.

Grip Docility said:

This is an assault on you in pursuit of ill gotten gain.

Politely, I will tell you that you are being used and anyone who would disgrace you so publicly by having this letter drafted does not have your best interest at heart.

This church is no family to you, but a poor imitation of the BOC.

I would “Surround” yourself with more positive people. (Read in-between the lines).

This is a disgrace to the person that had this generated, not to the one receiving it.

I’m very sorry your personal life has been insulted so severely.

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The letter is nothing short of a personal insult to the OP and to those who do not enjoy the luxury of full time employment. From me, the letter gets the complete derision and contempt it rightly deserves.

Jonaitis said:

This is awesome, sure I would have said it a little differently. I WISH THE CHURCHES I ATTENDED DID THIS TO ME WHEN I WAS JOBLESS. Accountability is sooo important and it is lacking in these degenerate times.

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I agree. My prayer partner and a friend were providing financial support for someone whose health issues worsened and his family didn’t help. He exhausted the assistance the church provided. They took up the slack.

He received money for food, utilities, and rent. Neither were wealthy. They made sacrifices on his behalf. But something seemed off. Six months had passed.

It turns out, he’d never sought assistance. Or bothered applying for benefits that would ease his burdens. He always had an an excuse. And was perfectly content with allowing a 70-year-old disabled woman to be his means for support.

I convinced her to address the issue and make it clear she couldn’t do it forever. It was upsetting to see her exploited. He needed a letter too! ;-)

Spiccoli said:

My wife has gone to the pastors at my church and told them I do not work. I do work and have a job, however I just do not make as much money as my wife, actually I work constantly around the house etc. My family has plenty money to make payments house, food, everything. The church deems that I am in violation of first Timothy 5:8 and is in the process of treating me as a nonbeliever. I have attached a letter below from the church would you please read and give me advice. It seems to me they are mis using scriptures. Your careful consideration would be appreciated. See letter from church below.View attachment 259490 Thank you

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Bottom line, the church has the right to follow the teachings in the Bible on how to deal with its members.

Part of being a Christian is submitting to the authority of the church. You should submit to the church on this.

And no, the church is not mis-using the scriptures. In fact, it's all the other churches that would never do what they have done here, that are not following scriptures.

Your wife went to the church. According to the letter there are on-going financial problems in your home.

This is either true, or it is false.

If it is true.... then you need to heed the correction given to you. You need to be working a full time job, or a better job, that provides more income.

It does not matter what work you are doing around the house, if you have bills to pay and your wife is constantly stressed over money.

You need to work a full time job.

And let me give you a word of warning. I've met women like this. When a woman gets to the point that she is contacting the church, and talking about all the details of her married life with the church leadership... she is getting fed up, and at the end of her rope.

I've met them. And at some point, a woman will feel like she is paying for her husband to sit around at home, and will simply say "I'm better off with out him".

I am not trying to freak you out about your marriage, I am just saying I have seen that with my own eyes. And one day the guy wakes up, and the woman is gone, and there are divorce papers on the kitchen table. In fact I know two different men that have had this happen.

In fact I met a third lady that did exactly this just 2 weeks ago at work. Her husband wanted to quit his job, and live off his wife's income. She said no. He quit his job anyway. They are divorce now. She said to me "I'm not going to keep working hard, so he can watch TV".

So my bottom line advice to you is... obey the instructions of the church. Get a job, and work a full 40 hours a week. Again... this is just advice. You can ignore it if you want, but this is what I think you should do. But I think this is a great church, that they were willing discipline a church member.

So.. we know nothing about you.. what has been or is going on with you. And hearing one side only. And NEVER has anyone here other then the OP talked with prayed with. The answers would be foolish and unwise.

And this is not gossip? Gonna run with "no its not".. means nothing. Gossip is one thing that STOPS the sweet sweet Holy Spirit

Albion said:

We do not have an absolute answer about that. However, it is inconceivable that if they had done so, there would not be even a hint of a reference to it somewhere in the letter.

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The church leadership does seem to be following Matthew 18:15-17. The letter specifically refers to prior admonishments from the pastor and other people (presumably elders).

Looks like you all might have got trolled since this guy has not responded.

charsan said:

Looks like you all might have got trolled since this guy has not responded.

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If so, kudos to him for going above and beyond with that letter.

Strong in Him said:

No; it's still none of their business.

IF that was the case, the OP's wife might feel angry/frustrated at the situation. It may cause her to question his commitment to her or to wish that he was more ambitious, or would make greater use of his gifts. She might feel depressed that the marriage was an unequal partnership, and go to the elders for counsel, and/or prayer, for one or all of these things. But it is still a matter between husband and wife.

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Not according to Scripture. It is this "mind your own business" attitude that is greatly helping to create the increasingly "leavened" Church in the West. All believers are "members one of another." They are not sovereign little person-states, without obligation or accountability to any but themselves. This is not the description of the Church I find in Scripture at all.

Strong in Him said:

Nothing can justify church leaders writing "we believe you are walking in idleness", "there is no Biblical justification for your failure to provide ....", and even worse, "we ask that you cease involvement with the community mission group because this is for believers."

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Good grief. Read 1 Corinthians 5.

Strong in Him said:

Where's their pastoral support for the OP? Do they know if husband and wife made a prior arrangement which was satisfactory but which the wife has now become unhappy, or been made to feel that way by others? Do they know if, as someone else has suggested, that she has not become more materialistic and just wants more and more things? Have they bothered to ask, or find out, if the OP is suffering with depression?

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Who knows? I don't. And neither do you. Which is why this whole endeavour to counsel the OP is perhaps a bit ridiculous.

nanookadenord said:

Nope. Both husband and wife are leaders of their household. I believe in mutual submission per verse 21 of Ephesians 5.

If a husband is working part-time out of the home and does household stuff, he is working a job as he is working part-time. Maybe it's not as much as his wife, but he is till working and he is doing household stuff so that the wife who is working full-time doesn't have as much to do.

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It is emotionally very difficult for a wife to lead her household without her husband’s sufficient provision/contribution in financial aspects and mutual submission is difficult unless they both first remain submissive to God. Wherein the wife is not in agreement with her husband’s part time settling in, and she takes her concern to God, then let the husband give an account of himself to God in this matter.

I believe the Holy Spirit doesn’t convict a wife on whether she is working enough to meet the financial needs of the family or not, but the Holy Spirit does convict a husband when he is not doing so.

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Radagast said:

The church leadership does seem to be following Matthew 18:15-17. The letter specifically refers to prior admonishments from the pastor and other people (presumably elders).

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Yes but the whole walking in idleness and the Thessalonians verse seems misapplied in this case.

He is working, albeit part-time, and so is his wife - which is not at all unbiblical for a wife to make an income and contribute to the household.

Their family are not a burden to the church body having money for all their needs in plenty. The issue then is marital, and not a matter of being a burden to the church at large.

The marital issue should be presented using different verses, and different treatment altogether. The couple need counseling where the issues they are having can be addressed, both sides being heard, and both sides learning some compromise.

This doesn't appear to be being handled correctly, from what we are seeing here.

Bad churches are bad. Leave like Lot and don't look back.

-CryptoLutheran

Hazelelponi said:

Yes but the whole walking in idleness and the Thessalonians verse seems misapplied in this case.

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I don't know anything about the case, other than what's in the letter.

Radagast said:

I don't know anything about the case, other than what's in the letter.

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none of us do.. I'm going by the letter alone, and some of what the OP said, namely that their family has no issues with paying their bills.

The letter seems to indicate the churches desire is that he works 40 hours a week instead of part-time, because he's "eating his wife's bread"

what does that mean anyway? And why is this treated like he's a burden to the church when it's his wife that is unhappy with how many hours he's working?

I do believe being a burden to the church is different altogether to a man's wife feeling like he's a burden..

While we would all like more information, what information we have seems odd at best..