God reveals the end times

Lost4words · Jul 14, 2019

keras said:
There is a shocking lack of understanding among Christians about God's plans for the world and for His people during the end times.

There WILL be a new Temple, denying that truth contradicts much scripture, esp Ezekiel 40-46 The Anti-Christ will desecrate it by sitting in it and declaring himself to be God. 2 Thess 2:4
This means it has to be a Temple dedicated to God and is Ezekiel 43:1-4, the Glory of God will enter into it.

You just haven't read or properly understood prophesies like Isaiah 56:1-8, Zechariah 14:20-21, Revelation 11:1-3, + God wanted people to build Him an earthly Temple twice before and He does not change. Jesus will Return into it, the earthquake of the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:3-5, will clear His way.

The problem that most Christians have that makes it difficult for them to comprehend the prophesies, is holding beliefs in false theories. Isaiah 29:0-12 and other scriptures tell us that people gripping onto beliefs that do not have sound Biblical support, leads to an inability to understand the truths.
Only as the end times events commence, will people like that finally understand. Isaiah 29:23-24, Isaiah 32:3-4, Jeremiah 4:22

What makes others 'theories' wrong and yours 'right?'

You put yourself above others stating that only your interpretations of scripture are the correct ones? Everyone else is wrong?

keras · Jul 14, 2019

Douggg said:
Christians will not build the temple, but Jews, who still hold to the animal sacrifice system, albeit a no longer acceptable means to be right with God. In that context, the Antichrist will stop the daily sacrifice to be reinstituted by the Jews in the temple that they will rebuild, intended by the Jews to be for worship and praise of the One True God.

You constantly show your inability to read and understand what the Prophetic Word actually does say about the Jewish people. They are soon to be uprooted from the holy Land and can only return as Christians. Jeremiah 12:14-16, Jeremiah 50:4-5, Isaiah 6:11-13, + Only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

keras · Jul 14, 2019

Lost4words said:
What makes others 'theories' wrong and yours 'right?'

You put yourself above others stating that only your interpretations of scripture are the correct ones? Everyone else is wrong?

I present what the Bible prophets wrote.
Isn't their Word good enough for you?

DavidPT · Jul 14, 2019

keras said:
There is a shocking lack of understanding among Christians about God's plans for the world and for His people during the end times.

There WILL be a new Temple, denying that truth contradicts much scripture, esp Ezekiel 40-46 The Anti-Christ will desecrate it by sitting in it and declaring himself to be God. 2 Thess 2:4
This means it has to be a Temple dedicated to God and is Ezekiel 43:1-4, the Glory of God will enter into it.

You just haven't read or properly understood prophesies like Isaiah 56:1-8, Zechariah 14:20-21, Revelation 11:1-3, + God wanted people to build Him an earthly Temple twice before and He does not change. Jesus will Return into it, the earthquake of the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:3-5, will clear His way.

The problem that most Christians have that makes it difficult for them to comprehend the prophesies, is holding beliefs in false theories. Isaiah 29:0-12 and other scriptures tell us that people gripping onto beliefs that do not have sound Biblical support, leads to an inability to understand the truths.
Only as the end times events commence, will people like that finally understand. Isaiah 29:23-24, Isaiah 32:3-4, Jeremiah 4:22

For years though, initially I did take these things in a literal sense, in regards to building another temple in the future, then animal sacrificing resuming in it, etc. Eventually I began to change my mind about it. My view is that the 70th week is still indeed future, and that it will involve the temple of God mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2, among other things, but that none of this is meaning in a literal sense where it might involve a literal temple in Jerusalem though. In 2 Thessalonians 2 it indicates these things will involve strong delusion. That tells me these things aren't going to involve the plainly obvious, such as a literal temple getting rebuilt, then these things being literally fulfilled in it. Who would be deceived by that? Christians wouldn't be. As to unbelieving Jews, well they are already deceived to begin with. It would be a bit of an overkill to deceive them even more than they already are.

Lost4words · Jul 14, 2019

keras said:
I present what the Bible prophets wrote.
Isn't their Word good enough for you?

Its 'your' interpretation of what their words mean that is the issue.

What makes you think that your view is the correct one?

Douggg · Jul 14, 2019

keras said:
There WILL be a new Temple, denying that truth contradicts much scripture, esp Ezekiel 40-46 The Anti-Christ will desecrate it by sitting in it and declaring himself to be God. 2 Thess 2:4
This means it has to be a Temple dedicated to God and is Ezekiel 43:1-4, the Glory of God will enter into it.

The third temple, the one to be desecrated by the Antichrist is not the Ezekiel 43 temple.

But that is really not the question I am putting forth to you. Where are you getting that Christians will build the next temple?

Douggg · Jul 14, 2019

DavidPT said:
In 2 Thessalonians 2 it indicates these things will involve strong delusion. That tells me these things aren't going to involve the plainly obvious, such as a literal temple getting rebuilt, then these things being literally fulfilled in it. Who would be deceived by that? Christians wouldn't be. As to unbelieving Jews, well they are already deceived to begin with. It would be a bit of an overkill to deceive them even more than they already are.

David, we have to be very precise in reading 2Thessalonians2:9-12.

The Antichrist person deceives with lying wonders, power, and signs. That's the first part. verses 9-10.

The second part is that God Himself sends strong delusion to them who believe the Antichrist's claims via the lying wonder, power, and signs because it appeals to their desire to be unrighteous (that is, right with God). verses 11-12.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What is the "lie" ?

The Antichrist person will go into the temple sit, and claim to be God, as having achieved God-hood. That's the lie. Many will buy into his claim.

The person though will be killed for his action in Ezekiel 28:1-10. And will find his soul in hell, in Isaiah 14:19-20. But God in disdain for the person, brings him back to life - which in the eyes of the world, it will appear the person has overcome death. Thus, in the eyes of the world, validating his claim to have achieved God-hood. Which is the strong delusion that God sends.

Which it will appear that death cannot have power over the person - which I think is why in Revelation 13, it says...

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The thinking will be, imo, - if the person can't be killed and stay dead, how can anyone make war against him?

Douggg · Jul 14, 2019

Lost4words said:
Its 'your' interpretation of what their words mean that is the issue.

What makes you think that your view is the correct one?

I think it is appropriate and good to every so often in presenting our interpretations with a few "imo" , "it appears", "seems to indicate", "apparently", and the like, to not give the impression that we are speaking on God's behalf, i.e. prophets, but instead as students of eschatology.

keras · Jul 14, 2019

Douggg said:
The third temple, the one to be desecrated by the Antichrist is not the Ezekiel 43 temple.

Take your own advice! That statement is purely your opinion.

Douggg said:

But that is really not the question I am putting forth to you. Where are you getting that Christians will build the next temple?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The Temple will be rebuilt.
Thinking otherwise is a direct contradiction of many Bible passages.

Zechariah 8:2 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for Zion, I am burning with jealousy for her.
The Lord will redeem His Land and His faithful Christian people.

Zechariah 8:3 This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.

Zechariah 8:4-5 This is what the Lord Almighty says; Once again old people and children will inhabit the streets of Jerusalem.

Zechariah 8:6 This is what the Lord Almighty says; Even if this may seem impossible to the remnant of this nation, will it be impossible for Me?

Zechariah 8:7-8 These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; I am about to rescue My people from countries in the East and West and bring them back to live in Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God, in faithfulness and justice.

The Land cleansed, His faithful Christian people gathered and settled in the Land. Back to Jerusalem: the place of origin for our Christian faith.

Zechariah 8:9 These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; Take heart, all you who now hear that the Temple is to be rebuilt as the prophets foretold. [Zechariah 6:15]

Zechariah 8:10 Before that time, there was no hiring of man or beast, because of your enemies, for I had set every man against his neighbour.

Zechariah 8:11 But, I do not feel the same toward the remnant of this people as I did in former days, says the Lord of Hosts.

Zechariah 8:12 For they will sow in safety, I will give them rain and the Land will yield it’s produce. This is the inheritance of My people. Ephesians 1:10-14 & 3:6

Zech 8:13 To the nations you, House of Judah and House of Israel, have become as a curse; now I shall save you – you will become proverbial as a blessing. Courage, do not lose heart!
The Christian people, will be an example to the nations. Matthew 5:14-16

Zechariah 8:14-15 These are the words of the Lord; Just as I determined to bring disaster on you when your [Spiritual - Galatians 3:26-29] forefathers made Me angry, so I have resolved to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid.

Zechariah 8:16-17 This is what you must do; speak the truth to each other and administer true justice in your courts. Do not plot evil and do not love perjury, for all these I hate. This is the word of the Lord.

Zechariah 8:19 These are the words of the Lord; Keep the fasts of the 4th, 5th, 7th and 10th months. They will be festivals of joy for Judah. Love truth and peace.

Zechariah 8:20-22 These are the words of the Lord; In future, nations and peoples will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favour of the Lord.

Zechariah 8:23 These are the words of the Lord; In those days, 10 people from every nation will take hold of a Jew and say; Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.
Who is a real Jew? Romans 2:29 makes that clear.

Douggg · Jul 14, 2019

keras said:
Zechariah 8:2 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for Zion, I am burning with jealousy for her.
The Lord will redeem His Land and His faithful Christian people.

Well, you are reading something into the text that is not there. Christians are redeemed, their souls, when they embrace Jesus as their savior. The other part of salvation is redemption of the believers body in the resurrection and rapture.

keras said:
Zech 8:13 To the nations you, House of Judah and House of Israel, have become as a curse; now I shall save you – you will become proverbial as a blessing. Courage, do not lose heart!
The Christian people, will be an example to the nations. Matthew 5:14-16

It is not saying Christians, but the twelve tribes.

keras said:
Zechariah 8:23 These are the words of the Lord; In those days, 10 people from every nation will take hold of a Jew and say; Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.
Who is a real Jew? Romans 1:29 makes that clear.

I think you meant Romans 2:29. At the heart of all of Paul's letters is to promote the gospel.

A real jew in terms of being right with God, which is what Paul was speaking about, is a Jew who has embraced the gospel. Which when Zechariah 8:23 takes place will be them who presently don't embraced the gospel. But will embrace the gospel during the great tribulation.

What I am not seeing in your post is support that Christians will build the next temple.

keras · Jul 15, 2019

Douggg said:
What I am not seeing in your post is support that Christians will build the next temple.

When I was baptized, I received a verse. It was Zechariah 6:15....men will come from far away to build the Temple. So I know that one day, I will be back in the holy Land, with every other faithful Christian; Revelation 7:9, and we will build a new Temple, better that any previous one. Haggai 2:9, Ezekiel 43:1-12

It s your wrong beliefs that lead you astray;
The Church is Israel:

Just as the Gentile Ruth, an ancestor of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, could say to the Israelite Naomi: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God. Ruth 1:16, so Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel. Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12-19, Galatians 3:29

That is: all genetic Jews in the church remain members of Judah or Benjamin, the tribes they were born into. Romans 11:1 And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel and so will be assigned into its tribes, as per: Ezekiel 47:21-23, Isaiah 66:21 and as seen by John in Revelation 7:9

So the entire church represents the 12 tribes of Israel. This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved by the New Covenant, which is made only with the Israel of God. Hebrews 8:10

John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church. God knows who His people are, Amos 9:9, and every believer will be placed in the tribe suited to their abilities and characteristics. Revelation 7:9-14

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are ethnic Jews, Acts 22:3 or ethnic Gentiles, Romans 16:4b, have become spiritually-circumcised Israelites, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus. Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13

The books of James and Peter are addressed to the twelve tribes, which is the same as addressing people in the church, people with faith in Christ , James 1:3, that is: Christians, people who have been born again in Jesus and who anticipate His Return.

All those in the church, from every tribe, race, nation and language, are spiritually Abraham's seed, by their faith. Galatians 3:29 And Abraham's seed is Israel. Isaiah 41:8-10 So the entire church membership are Israelites of God. Galatians 6:16

This literally means we are the ‘Overcomers for God’, or ‘God’s Victorious people’. Seen in each of the seven Church’s of Revelation and in Isaiah 56:1-8

Not just the Jews in the church, but also the Gentiles in the church, are all spiritually Abraham's seed of promise as Isaac was and as Jesus is the one and only true Seed. And so the peoples of the church, Jews and those from every race, nation and language, every faithful believing Christian is an heir of all the as yet, unfulfilled promises made by God to Israel in all of the Bible: Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 1:11-14

Zechariah 8:7-8 The Lord says: I am going to rescue My people from wherever they are in the world and I will bring them back into the holy Land, to Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God in truth and righteousness. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10

The Prophesies are clear; it is a people that God foreknew whom He will rescue, redeem, restore and forgive their sins and misdeeds. None other than the Northern tribes of the House of Israel, scattered among the nations and ‘lost’ to our knowledge, but not to God. Now; the bulk of the faithful Christian peoples.
Originally posted on this forum by: Bible 2

Douggg · Jul 15, 2019

keras said:
When I was baptized, I received a verse. It was Zechariah 6:15....men will come from far away to build the Temple. So I know that one day, I will be back in the holy Land, with every other faithful Christian; Revelation 7:9, and we will build a new Temple, better that any previous one. Haggai 2:9, Ezekiel 43:1-12

It s your wrong beliefs that lead you astray;
The Church is Israel:

Just as the Gentile Ruth, an ancestor of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, could say to the Israelite Naomi: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God. Ruth 1:16, so Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel. Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12-19, Galatians 3:29

That is: all genetic Jews in the church remain members of Judah or Benjamin, the tribes they were born into. Romans 11:1 And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel and so will be assigned into its tribes, as per: Ezekiel 47:21-23, Isaiah 66:21 and as seen by John in Revelation 7:9

So the entire church represents the 12 tribes of Israel. This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved by the New Covenant, which is made only with the Israel of God. Hebrews 8:10

John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church. God knows who His people are, Amos 9:9, and every believer will be placed in the tribe suited to their abilities and characteristics. Revelation 7:9-14

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are ethnic Jews, Acts 22:3 or ethnic Gentiles, Romans 16:4b, have become spiritually-circumcised Israelites, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus. Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13

The books of James and Peter are addressed to the twelve tribes, which is the same as addressing people in the church, people with faith in Christ , James 1:3, that is: Christians, people who have been born again in Jesus and who anticipate His Return.

All those in the church, from every tribe, race, nation and language, are spiritually Abraham's seed, by their faith. Galatians 3:29 And Abraham's seed is Israel. Isaiah 41:8-10 So the entire church membership are Israelites of God. Galatians 6:16

This literally means we are the ‘Overcomers for God’, or ‘God’s Victorious people’. Seen in each of the seven Church’s of Revelation and in Isaiah 56:1-8

Not just the Jews in the church, but also the Gentiles in the church, are all spiritually Abraham's seed of promise as Isaac was and as Jesus is the one and only true Seed. And so the peoples of the church, Jews and those from every race, nation and language, every faithful believing Christian is an heir of all the as yet, unfulfilled promises made by God to Israel in all of the Bible: Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 1:11-14

Zechariah 8:7-8 The Lord says: I am going to rescue My people from wherever they are in the world and I will bring them back into the holy Land, to Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God in truth and righteousness. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10

The Prophesies are clear; it is a people that God foreknew whom He will rescue, redeem, restore and forgive their sins and misdeeds. None other than the Northern tribes of the House of Israel, scattered among the nations and ‘lost’ to our knowledge, but not to God. Now; the bulk of the faithful Christian peoples.
Originally posted on this forum by: Bible 2

Makes no sense because in the middle of the week the prince who shall come stops the daily sacrifice and oblation of the temple ordinances - which Christians don't operate in that system, for Christians to build the next temple.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

keras · Jul 15, 2019

Douggg said:
Makes no sense because in the middle of the week the prince who shall come stops the daily sacrifice and oblation of the temple ordinances - which Christians don't operate in that system, for Christians to build the next temple.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

We will operate in the system carefully described to us in Ezekiel 40- to 48. There will be offerings made on the Temple Altar, for thanksgiving and purification. Ezekiel 43:22-27, Ezekiel 45:13-25
The Lord will accept our gifts to Him, as He blesses us in all of the Land. Isaiah 56:7, Jeremiah 33:11

You don't see this outcome because of a belief in an entirely different end times theory, going to live in heaven. That the 'rapture' idea has no Biblical support, does not seem to faze those who grip onto it.
It is going to be very hard for all who have been fooled by the 'rapture to heaven' false teaching, as dramatic events happen and they remain on earth, totally clueless about what they should do now.

God reveals the end times

Jesus I Trust In You

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Well-Known Member

Jesus I Trust In You

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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