Non-mention in Scripture

Messerve said:

A large part of following God means making decisions based on our best judgment of what it seems He is telling us.

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Joshua 9:1-14 shows what happened when the Jewish leaders did not make sure with God. They looked at how things were made to look.

Carl Emerson said:

Actually yes... John is not talking about prophesy from believers in the church context - Paul is.

What could be more clear - "let the spirits of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets...

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No version of the Bible I've seen says that.

Radagast said:

No version of the Bible I've seen says that.

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Ummm, perhaps more reading is in order then.
1 Corinthians 14:32

Messerve said:

I found 1 John 1:4-6 ( I assume that's the passage you're referring to). Can you remind me where similar passages are found in the gospels?

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You're pointing to the 2nd chapter there (you have a typo above then, and it's thus 2:4-6), which is such a powerful indicator, echoing Christ in the gospels. Good sight. I was actually remembering another from 1rst John, 2:22 and all it entails, that He is the Messiah and the Son of God, and that He rose, is alive, and we are redeemed through Him, and He is the way, the truth, and the life.

In the gospels, see also Matthew ch 7, vs 15-20. Which is profoundly telling. Especially b if you read fully through a gospel, so that you know what true fruits are, such as loving others (not only a select group of friends), forgiving, being humble...

topher694 said:

Ummm, perhaps more reading is in order then.
1 Corinthians 14:32

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CSB And the prophets’ spirits are subject to the prophets,

ESV and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.

GNT The gift of proclaiming God's message should be under the speaker's control,

KJV And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

NIV The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets.

Greek καὶ πνεύματα προφητῶν προφήταις ὑποτάσσεται·

The passage does not have an imperative (there is no "let the") and it does not mean what the OP suggests.

Radagast said:

The passage does not have an imperative (there is no "let the") and it does not mean what the OP suggests.

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Sure, by itself... if you ignore the context of the rest of the chapter.

You say you've never seen a version of the Bible that says that, then quote one that says exactly that. Lol. You may disagree on the meaning, but it's hard to take your interpretation serious after that.

topher694 said:

Sure, by itself... if you ignore the context of the rest of the chapter.

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The context of the chapter (indeed of the first half of the sentence in the ESV) is that the prophets should exercise self-control and take turns. Nothing like what the OP suggested.

topher694 said:

You say you've never seen a version of the Bible that says that, then quote one that says exactly that. Lol. You may disagree on the meaning, but it's hard to take your interpretation serious after that.

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Is this a joke?

1. The OP used the words "let the spirits of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets."

2. I pointed out that no version of the Bible I've seen used those words.

3. I looked up all the versions on Biblegateway, plus the original Greek, and indeed, none of the English translations have the words "let the," nor does the Greek have an imperative verb.

When you look at what the words of the Bible actually say, then the meaning becomes clear. Conversely, if you have to twist the words of the Bible to make your point, you're doing it wrong.

As far as I can tell, the wording "let the spirits of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets" is from the Archbishop of Armagh, not from any version of the Bible I've seen.

Radagast said:

The context of the chapter (indeed of the first half of the sentence in the ESV) is that the prophets should exercise self-control and take turns. Nothing like what the OP suggested.



Is this a joke?

1. The OP used the words "let the spirits of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets."

2. I pointed out that no version of the Bible I've seen used those words.

3. I looked up all the versions on Biblegateway, plus the original Greek, and indeed, none of the English translations have the words "let the," nor does the Greek have an imperative verb.

When you look at what the words of the Bible actually say, then the meaning becomes clear. Conversely, if you have to twist the words of the Bible to make your point, you're doing it wrong.

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Oh please, this has devolved into vocabulary theology.

The context of 1 Cor 14 is prophetic order. Experienced, trusted prophetic people are best equipped to evaluate prophecy. That's order.

So, let me ask you this. Do you prophesy in church? Have you been trained? Have you trained others?

topher694 said:

Experienced, trusted prophetic people are best equipped to evaluate prophecy.

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But the Bible doesn't say that.

Radagast said:

But the Bible doesn't say that.

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Oh please, Elijah & Elisha, Samuel & Eli...

And as I thought, ignored the question. Amazing how people can be experts on things they know nothing about.

This is a complete joke and waste of time... I'm done... Ingnored

Interesting to me how some only focus on false prophets When there's the false, there has to be Godly prophets. Plus the I Cor 12 and Eph 4 scriptures.

Would love a subforum dedicated to discussing these types of subjects including the supernatural for members who have something to share so all can learn.

The prophets I know want -even encourage - the words tested.

tturt said:

Interesting to me how some bring up false prophets When there's the false, there has to be Godly prophets. Plus the I Cor 12 and Eph 4 scriptures.

Would love a subforum dedicated to discussing these types of subjects including the supernatural for members who have something to share so all can learn.

The prophets I know want even encourage the words tested.

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I'd be happy to share from some of our materials in a area like that, but I'd be done real quick if Cessationists came in and started hijacking the discussions. Which I've seen happen before.

Maybe there could be a stipulation to post on that 1 subforum

One thing on prophecy... Is the person who has the gift always aware that they are prophesying? Or is it just something they're burning to say which is, unbeknownst to them, unusually pertinent to a specific situation. Or are they merely discussing a current situation and predict the outcome unawares?

Also, would we place seemingly prophetic dreams under the gift of prophecy?

Finally, what do we know about how this structure worked in the early Church - of prophecies scrutinized by "senior" prophets before being declared reliable? Do we have written records of that happening from an early church father or theologian or historian?

Messerve said:

One thing on prophecy... Is the person who has the gift always aware that they are prophesying? Or is it just something they're burning to say which is, unbeknownst to them, unusually pertinent to a specific situation. Or are they merely discussing a current situation and predict the outcome unawares?

Also, would we place seemingly prophetic dreams under the gift of prophecy?

Finally, what do we know about how this structure worked in the early Church - of prophecies scrutinized by "senior" prophets before being declared reliable? Do we have written records of that happening from an early church father or theologian or historian?

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Good questions.

1. No, many times prophetic people are not aware they have the gift. It fact I believe that it is much more common than people realize. More often than not in these cases people dismiss what is being revealed to them. But, yes people can say things prophetically without realizing it is prophetic. Usually people do not have an overwhelming desire to say something, but more like a thought they cannot shake, often they are actually afraid to say it out loud.

Note: prophetic Ministry is not always about the future.


2. Most prophetic people would place dreams under prophecy, yes. But "God dreams" works too.


3. I suggest looking into Phillip's daughters. They are mentioned only once in scripture. It says they prophesied. But, many early church leaders considered them the standard/model for NT prophetic ministry.

tturt said:

Interesting to me how some only focus on false prophets When there's the false, there has to be Godly prophets.

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Everybody agrees that true, infallible prophets inspired by God existed in both OT and NT times. The debate is about whether they still do.

tturt said:

The prophets I know want -even encourage - the words tested.

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I would hope that every prophet who contradicts the teaching of the Bible is recognised as a false prophet.

topher694 said:

I suggest looking into Phillip's daughters. They are mentioned only once in scripture. It says they prophesied. But, many early church leaders considered them the standard/model for NT prophetic ministry.

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Which early church leaders?

In my reading of the early Church fathers, all I find about Phillip's daughters is the statement that they existed.

Getting back to #55, those are some good topics Scripture states we can all prophesy (I Cor 14). .Think some don't realize it - especially when they're just beginning in this rype of service while others know upfront what they're saying is prophetic

prophecies scrutinized by senior prophets?
Reminded of Saul and his messengers who prophesied when they came in contact with a company of prophets I Sam

Yet it looks like Judas and Silas would probably be senior prophets "..., being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them." Acts 15. Interesting that it sounds like they confirmed each others words. For some confirmation occurs when the words come true. In Acts 9:8-19, Ananias knew that Saul had seen in a supernatural vision that he would come and put his hand on him so he would receive his sight. Yes, it was further confirmed when it happened.

Church order- think it depends on the church--
Know of a church with numerous prophetic voices. They give their words to an associate pastor who presents them to the congregation.

(Topher 694 would be interested in those materials).

tturt said:

It looks like Judas and Silas would probably be senior prophets "..., being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them." Acts 15.

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The Greek word is epistērizō. It means something more like "strengthen." It's translated that way in the ESV, CSV, NASB, NIV, and NKJV.

Even the KJV translates the same word as "strengthen" in Acts of the Apostles 18:23, and "confirm" in its older meaning does mean "strengthen."