Discussion The word of God vs the word of God

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟94,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Recently i observed a concentrated attack of a persons personal testimony.
- it happens. Move on .
But the premise of the attack kept referring to " the word of God " aka the scriptures.

Iv observed this a lot over the years..
The script( written )is the record of What God has said..
But the word is Jesus the person.
He will never contradict himself. But he has not ceased to be the living person of the only begotten son of God.
So he fully speaks to people...
TODAY . How they perceive him speaking and how they comprehend him speaking is of course subject to thier interpretation and then our comprehension of what they tell us.
This is why we must test the Spirits...
The written text is ONE solid way.
But the witness of TWO is true.!
For if we use ONLY the written text we may use it only in the context of what a false teacher has taught us ..

So we require the 2nd witness of the Holy Spirit who "Bears witness to the truth".
Only when the Spirit of truth bares witness to the taught written word can we be sure of the interpretation.

Many of us have experienced this witness to the truth by the Holy Spirit and his equal warning when what is being taught is Not truth.
Those times as we grew in the lord and we heard a thing being taught and we got excited in our hearts for it felt like .-.We knew this truth already-. But its not US that knew it but the Holy Spirit in us..the spirit of truth. So when we heard that truth He stirred excitedly in us and it bare witness to that truth...
Effectivly the Holy Spirit was saying to us ..i second that..what you are hearing is TRUTH.

IN CONTRAST he also warns of the presence of a lie... This is when we are hearing the written word being read and then expounded on and something in us becomes troubeld and though what is being said sounds so very amazing, the holy Spirit is telling us warning warning..dont be fooled by the many convincing words.. This is Not TRUTH!

Scripture alone is the witness of ONLY ONE . AND scripture itself records that God said a person cannot be condemned on the witness of ONLY ONE ..there Must be a 2nd.
when scripture is weilded by a false testimony or an erroneous teacher it can sound out a convincing argument.
But the Holy Spirit cannot be fooled.
He must agree..and bare witness to the interpretation of the written word.

Not many months back i was subjected to being sent youtube clips of very convincing sounding preachers.... If i said whom many here would know the names...
They "sounded" so right and strong...

And then they all ALSO spoke in opposition to differing aspects of the present day ministry of the Holy Spirit... The same Holy Spirit who leads into all truth and bares witness to the truth and does not speak of himself but only glorifies JESUS...

This was a dilemma .which to believe...
We have opposing testimony...
The word of God recorded in written text... Coupled with the testimony of mere men.
Or the written word of God coupeld with the witness of the Holy Spirit... [Who is the lord JESUS risen and alive speaking to us..
( the holy spirit only takes from christ and gices it to us..when we hear the Holy spirit it is JESUS we are hearing ).]

So whom to believe?
Everytime we must believe the Written word Coupled with the 2nd witness of the Holy Spirit
OVER the word of mere men.
And it requires faith to do so and often causes great oppisition from others who are also not in the Holy Spirit.

The lord woke me in the early morning and said to me.. " any one who oppses the Holy Spirit of truth in any manner, and excludes the present day living testimony of JESUS the person by his Holy Spirit.. Is Not speaking or teaching by the unction of the same Holy Spirit.
No matter how awsome they sound..they are not speaking the truth...

The bible is a written record of what God has said.
The bible is Not Jesus.
It is a collection of testimonies of what God has said .
JESUS is not a book..
He is the living crucified and resurrected only begotten son of God...

He by His holy Spirit bares witness to the truth of ALL things..
Without him by his holy spirit bearing witness to the truth we cannot and must not ever trust only mens interpretations..
For as paul wrote in warning.. Clever men come in and teach false things by thier many clever words.

The written text ALONE is not sufficient grounds to establish what is truth.
It will always agree with the truth but is never by itself sufficient...
We need the ONE the scripture speaks of..
And he ..the living person of JESUS. speaks to us BY his Holy Spirit.
 

Mathetes66

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 24, 2019
1,031
867
Pacifc Northwest
✟90,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"The written text ALONE is not sufficient grounds to establish what is truth."

I respectfully disagree with some of what you said, with these qualifications. Jesus said the written text IS the truth & continually quoted it as such. Yet He is also the living Way, the living Truth & the living Life.

Yet the written Word of truth is what is used to expose the error, led by the Spirit of truth. What God spoke in the OT is the truth & when it was written down it remains the truth, as well as the NT.

I firmly believe in the many passages where it says, 'By the mouth of two OR THREE witnesses let every fact be CONFIRMED.

However, the witness of the Spirit that one 'feels' can be used by false teachers as well, saying about their interpretation of the written Word. False teachers will use the same thing to supposedly confirm what they say. 'The Spirit told me...'

What is false concerning what a false teacher is saying is shown to be by the written Word & especially 2 or 3 witnesses from Scripture itself. The Bible is the best interpreter of the Bible. The Holy Spirit will confirm this.

The Holy Spirit will take what Jesus SAID (and is now written down) and guide us into all the truth from what He said! (John 14 & 16)

How did Jesus confront the false teaching of Satan in the wilderness when he sought to tempt Jesus many times to evil? Remember He was filled with & lead by the Spirit out into the wilderness to be tempted.

Three times: it is written...it is written...it is written...then begone Satan.

Put on the full armor of God to fight in the spiritual battle & the one offensive weapon is: the 'sword of the Spirit' which IS the Word of God. The Holy Spirit USES the written Word of God to expose the errors of false teachers.

Jesus as the living Word of God will never contradict what is written. Jesus repeatedly kept alluding to or quoting from the written Word when confronting false teaching or man's traditions: have you not read; is it not written; do you not know; you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God, etc.

Yet it is true that one must come to the living Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, to receive eternal life. The Written Word cannot impart that. (John 5:39,40) Yet the Written Word will lead one to the living Word & the written Word IS LIVING & ACTIVE to expose one's heart & the Holy Spirit brings conviction through it. (Heb 4:12,13)
Paul says the same thing:

I Cor 4:6 GWT Brothers & sisters, I have applied this to Apollos & myself for your sake. You should learn from us not to go beyond what is written in Scripture. Then you won't arrogantly place one of us in opposition to the other.

Now I agree that the Spirit of truth will expose the spirits of error. The epistle of I John is a great one for showing very specifically how to discern many things. And the Spirit has done that many times in my life & ministry.

And it is through the Spirit that the Word of God is put within our hearts, so how He leads us is according to what is written--in our hearts now as well.

If a false prophet says something is going to pass, then I go looking for 2 or 3 witnesses that it will indeed come to pass in the written Word, with the Spirit directing me. If I don't see those 2 or 3 witnesses, it isn't going to happen & afterwards this is confirmed by it not happening.

When confronting members of the various cults, the Spirit has time & again brought to my mind the written Word to confront the false teaching. Yes, the Spirit bears witness with my spirit that something is not right & not the truth but goes beyond just knowing this isn't true by using the truth of the written Word to correct it.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Strong in Him
Upvote 0

SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
Supporter
Jun 6, 2002
19,642
3,658
Midlands
Visit site
✟551,838.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Everything that is God breathed is scripture.
Two questions.
1. Is all the scripture in the Bible?
2. Is everything in the Bible scripture?
These questions are not intended to engender doubt. But consider this.

Romans 10:17
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. ."

My translation is this:
"Therefore faith comes by revelation, and revelation comes by a word spoken by Christ."

Weymouth is close:

Weymouth New Testament
And this proves that faith comes from a Message heard, and that the Message comes through its having been spoken by Christ.

I do not see that merely reading a verse gives faith. It has to be spoken by the Spirit into your heart. So what is written in the Bible will not engender faith within you if it is not revealed into your spirit by the Lord. Also, I have had experience where faith was engendered by the Spirit even though the specific thought was not found in the Bible (but would be in the original scripture).
Thanks.
 
Upvote 0

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟94,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I respectfully disagree with some of what you said, with these qualifications. Jesus said the written text IS the truth & continually quoted it as such. Yet He is also the living Way, the living Truth & the living Life.

Yet the written Word of truth is what is used to expose the error, led by the Spirit of truth. What God spoke in the OT is the truth & when it was written down it remains the truth, as well as the NT.

I firmly believe in the many passages where it says, 'By the mouth of two OR THREE witnesses let every fact be CONFIRMED.

However, the witness of the Spirit that one 'feels' can be used by false teachers as well, saying about their interpretation of the written Word. False teachers will use the same thing to supposedly confirm what they say. 'The Spirit told me...'

What is false concerning what a false teacher is saying is shown to be by the written Word & especially 2 or 3 witnesses from Scripture itself. The Bible is the best interpreter of the Bible. The Holy Spirit will confirm this.

The Holy Spirit will take what Jesus SAID (and is now written down) and guide us into all the truth from what He said! (John 14 & 16)

How did Jesus confront the false teaching of Satan in the wilderness when he sought to tempt Jesus many times to evil? Remember He was filled with & lead by the Spirit out into the wilderness to be tempted.

Three times: it is written...it is written...it is written...then begone Satan.

Put on the full armor of God to fight in the spiritual battle & the one offensive weapon is: the 'sword of the Spirit' which IS the Word of God. The Holy Spirit USES the written Word of God to expose the errors of false teachers.

Jesus as the living Word of God will never contradict what is written. Jesus repeatedly kept alluding to or quoting from the written Word when confronting false teaching or man's traditions: have you not read; is it not written; do you not know; you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God, etc.

Yet it is true that one must come to the living Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, to receive eternal life. The Written Word cannot impart that. (John 5:39,40) Yet the Written Word will lead one to the living Word & the written Word IS LIVING & ACTIVE to expose one's heart & the Holy Spirit brings conviction through it. (Heb 4:12,13)
Paul says the same thing:

I Cor 4:6 GWT Brothers & sisters, I have applied this to Apollos & myself for your sake. You should learn from us not to go beyond what is written in Scripture. Then you won't arrogantly place one of us in opposition to the other.

Now I agree that the Spirit of truth will expose the spirits of error. The epistle of I John is a great one for showing very specifically how to discern many things. And the Spirit has done that many times in my life & ministry.

And it is through the Spirit that the Word of God is put within our hearts, so how He leads us is according to what is written--in our hearts now as well.

If a false prophet says something is going to pass, then I go looking for 2 or 3 witnesses that it will indeed come to pass in the written Word, with the Spirit directing me. If I don't see those 2 or 3 witnesses, it isn't going to happen & afterwards this is confirmed by it not happening.

When confronting members of the various cults, the Spirit has time & again brought to my mind the written Word to confront the false teaching. Yes, the Spirit bears witness with my spirit that something is not right & not the truth but goes beyond just knowing this isn't true by using the truth of the written Word to correct it.
I wil short cut reply because for the point you disagreed on ..you also said ...

Yet the written Word of truth is what is used to expose the error, led by the Spirit of truth.

The written word ...led by the Spirit of truth.
The witness of two.
So in fact the point you disagreed on you tgen went and 100% agreed on.
Because the Holy Spirit is Never going to disagree with the written word.
 
Upvote 0

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟94,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My translation is this:
"Therefore faith comes by revelation, and revelation comes by a word spoken by Christ."
I get the essence of what your saying here..
Its incomplete and will get shot at by some who do a lot of shooting...
But i get it..


It goes on to say how will they hear... Its, in litteral context ,speaking of the declaration of the Gospel message of course...
But im sure i understand how your implying the same principle.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: SavedByGrace3
Upvote 0

Mathetes66

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 24, 2019
1,031
867
Pacifc Northwest
✟90,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"The written word ...led by the Spirit of truth. The witness of two.
So in fact the point you disagreed on you then went and 100% agreed on."

Sadly, this is typical of people pulling verses OUT of their context and making a pretext by adding what was not being said. You pulled one line out of my whole context, making it look like I disagreed with you on THAT point. I did NOT. You missed the point of my disagreement & the various clarifications I made. Perhaps you should read it again in full context.

And you LEFT OUT my direct quote of you as to what I specifically disagreed with, not including that in my WHOLE post. Here is what you left out at the very beginning.

"The written text ALONE is not sufficient grounds to establish what is truth."

It is one thing if I am wrong. I can admit that. But it is another thing is someone misquotes me, then distorts what I wrote, twisting it to mean something I did not say.
 
Upvote 0

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟94,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Sadly, this is typical of people pulling verses OUT of their context and making a pretext by adding what was not being said. You pulled one line out of my whole context, making it look like I disagreed with you on THAT point. I did NOT. You missed the point of my disagreement & the various clarifications I made. Perhaps you should read it again in full context.

And you LEFT OUT my direct quote of you as to what I specifically disagreed with, not including that in my WHOLE post. Here is what you left out at the very beginning.



It is one thing if I am wrong. I can admit that. But it is another thing is someone misquotes me, then distorts what I wrote, twisting it to mean something I did not say.
No one did that. :) you say you disagree that the written word Alone is Not sufficient to establish the truth..?
But if we use the written word Alone then we are open to carnal minded understanding and error. We Need the witness of the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth.
And im so thankfull he does so...

There are so many teachings i once said amen to which i now have repented from.
Because the Holy spirit took the SAME written word and revealed to me what HE meant and thereby corrected what MEN had said it means.
This is why i say the written word Alone is not sufficient. Without the author our comprehension of it is carnal and flawed.

Sorry if it sounded i was going at you....not my intent. It was very late and i admit i did not read your post well .and i Do have a very " in your face "posting style ...
 
Upvote 0

Mathetes66

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 24, 2019
1,031
867
Pacifc Northwest
✟90,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"Sorry if it sounded i was going at you....not my intent. It was very late and i admit i did not read your post well .and i Do have a very " in your face "posting style ..."

Thanks for getting back to me & your clarifications. :wave:
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Alithis
Upvote 0