Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future

MayYouBeBlessed said:

This prayer allows Jesus to enter your heart. It's the door you open for Jesus who's knocking.

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Opening the door is a work.

Door of man's heart is figurative. Faith. Jesus already saved us on the cross

MayYouBeBlessed said:

Door in man's heart is figurative. Faith. Jesus already saved us on the cross

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Hello, and welcome to CF and to TAW.

I would urge you to please listen to the information already given about general forum rules. It is always against every congregation's rules (Baptist, Orthodox, Lutheran, Catholic, Methodist, and so on) ... to go in and debate or argue against their beliefs.

The Orthodox forum (this one) is the only one that DOES have a section for debate. We welcome it. But it must be done in St. Justin's. Sometimes it gets too chaotic especially for inquirers or for those who might be seeking to deepen their relationship with God, or for whatever reason wish to have support and fellowship here to have debates going on. In spite of that, we are usually among the most tolerant of it because we DO wish to allow people to discuss whatever they want/need to discuss. But if staff happens to see it, you could end up banned from CF.

St. Justin Martyr's Corner: Debate an Orthodox Chr

So please do feel free to go to St. Justin's subforum and ask your questions. I don't want to see anyone, especially a new member, get into trouble.

ArmyMatt said:

it's a good read, just very heavy so tread lightly when you read it.

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Father ... is this simply true of all/most of Fr Seraphim Rose's work?

I seem to hear it so often, and he apparently is quite easily misunderstood (though I still don't get that as he seems quite clear to warn against misunderstandings).

MayYouBeBlessed said:

You see, your error is evident from your words. I'm already saved on the cross of Calvary. Nothing else is required from God. My faith is sufficient for Him.

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...what He did at Calvary was the supreme act of mercy....

~Anastasia~ said:

Father ... is this simply true of all/most of Fr Seraphim Rose's work?

I seem to hear it so often, and he apparently is quite easily misunderstood (though I still don't get that as he seems quite clear to warn against misunderstandings).

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pretty much, aside from God's Revelation to the Human Heart.

MayYouBeBlessed said:

I'm Baptist and in my church they say all Orthodox and Catholics are worshipping idols and are not saved, because they don't beleive in the gospel of grace, but rely on their good works to save them. Is it true?

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I have a friend, now Orthodox, who was raised Baptist. He said that they would say prayers to pieces of cloth.

MayYouBeBlessed said:

In words only, but in reality trusting your good deeds to save you.

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You and your Baptist church are totallhy mistaken about Orthodox, Roman Catholics, the Byzantine Churches, such as the Melkites, in communion with Rome.

Well the Lord appeared to St. Paul as Paul told King Agrippa ( Acts of the Apostles 26:14-20). Note that St. Paul says in verse 20 that we are to do works worthy of our repentance. St. Paul includes works alongside salvation by grace by faith in Ephesians 2:8-10. We do not take credit or boast of works; we do them to follow the Lord’s commandments ( Romans 13:8-10) to give glory to God. The Lord Himself calls us to give alms & pray ( Matthew 6:1-13; these are works.

MayYouBeBlessed said:

In words only, but in reality trusting your good deeds to save you.

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Sorry, had to register to this site because this post astounds me. They just told you we don't believe that works save us. How are you going to tell us what we believe when we directly tell you otherwise.

robsab said:

Sorry, had to register to this site because this post astounds me. They just told you we don't believe that works save us. How are you going to tell us what we believe when we directly tell you otherwise.

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I think some people accidentally think they are in a general forum when they have inadvertently entered a church group subforum.

MayYouBeBlessed said:

You see, your error is evident from your words. I'm already saved on the cross of Calvary. Nothing else is required from God. My faith is sufficient for Him.

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James 2:14-26

Lukaris said:

I think some people accidentally think they are in a general forum when they have inadvertently entered a church group subforum.

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true, but you think the first time an Orthodox Christian says we don't believe works can save us, that would be the end of it.

Faith alone will get us saved, but faith without good deeds is dead.

YCGP said:

Faith alone will get us saved, but faith without good deeds is dead.

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I like that way of putting it

MayYouBeBlessed said:

I'm Baptist and in my church they say all Orthodox and Catholics are worshipping idols and are not saved, because they don't beleive in the gospel of grace, but rely on their good works to save them. Is it true?

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I was formerly in a Baptist church. I was there when they had someone do a presentation on Catholicism.

It was a combination of inaccurate and full of actual lies, but I can see why some would acquire this idea given what was presented.

To answer your question - No, not true. But we believe in actually participating in the life of Christ, not just making a one time call.

If we are to pass from death to life, we need faith, but it must be a living faith, and that will produce good works. The demons believe too - but not a living faith that produces good works.

LizaMarie said:

I'm putting this here for better visibility.
Is this book by Fr. Seraphim Rose a good book?
I've been looking for another Christian defense against the occult, charismania and the New Age, and I've been thinking about buying this. I have some family that are caught up in New Age thinking, and others that are into dreams, visions, ect.
Also the culture seems to be getting more and more into the occult and evil as Fr. Rose predicts in this book. I've been looking for solid Christian defense against these things and would like an Orthodox perspective.
I've seriously thought about buying it but I see it was written in the 1970's, so I'm afraid it
might be a bit dated for today.
Has anyone read it recently and is it a good read?

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You can definitely miss it.

robsab said:

Sorry, had to register to this site because this post astounds me. They just told you we don't believe that works save us. How are you going to tell us what we believe when we directly tell you otherwise.

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Hello and welcome to CF and to TAW.

Sadly, people do just that often enough. After being told what we believe or don't believe, they insist our beliefs are really something else that we ourselves don't even realize.

In the forums it isn't supposed to be allowed (in any congregational forum - not just the Orthodox one). But we tend to be very lenient here because sometimes it leads to fruitful conversation. And you never know what lurkers may pick up. All things for the possible good of any and all persons.

I think the motives both in the forums and in real life are due to particular teachings (which I received myself as a Protestant wrt Catholicism) that somehow convince that Catholics (or Orthodox, etc.) don't even understand their own beliefs - and/or Protestant teaching - to the degree that they don't even realize what they believe or don't, and are blind to their errors.

If that's the actual motive (I hope at least it is) ... then the person at least thinks they are doing a right thing by warning someone. But they themselves are usually woefully uninformed (or more often MISinformed) about Church teaching.

The dialogue is often further hindered because words each of us use sometimes have different meanings from one another, causing more confusion.

But anyway - welcome to CF. I hope you'll stick around and post.

Post deleted. There was nothing useful in it.