Alternative interpretations of the parable of the pearl

cloudyday2

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"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it."
Parable of the Pearl - Wikipedia

Most teachings on this parable equate the kingdom of heaven with the pearl, but the English translations I have read seem to equate the kingdom with the merchant.

If the kingdom of heaven is the merchant, then the pearl becomes the humans who are purchased through the crucifixion of Jesus. I like the parable better in that form.

Is there anybody who understand the Greek? What was the originally intended meaning?
 
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"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it."
Parable of the Pearl - Wikipedia

Most teaching on this parable equate the kingdom of heaven with the pearl, but the English translations I have read seem to equate the kingdom with the merchant.

If the kingdom of heaven is the merchant, then the pearl becomes the humans who are purchased through the crucifixion of Jesus. I like the parable better in that form.

Is there anybody who understand the Greek? What was the originally intended meaning?
At the time, it was believed that a pearl was formed when a virgin oyster was struck by lightning.

Your preferred reading of the Parable is what the Eastern churches prefer. Jesus is the merchant who gives up all He has to purchase us.
 
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Rubiks

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Most teaching on this parable equate the kingdom of heaven with the pearl, but the English translations I have read seem to equate the kingdom with the merchant.

..In order to make Jesus' attitudes towards wealth more digestible.
 
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"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it."
Parable of the Pearl - Wikipedia

Most teaching on this parable equate the kingdom of heaven with the pearl, but the English translations I have read seem to equate the kingdom with the merchant.

If the kingdom of heaven is the merchant, then the pearl becomes the humans who are purchased through the crucifixion of Jesus. I like the parable better in that form.

Is there anybody who understand the Greek? What was the originally intended meaning?

I can sympathize with this reading because it seeks to emphasize the love of Christ but I don't believe it's really warranted by the parable itself. The Greek doesn't shed light in either direction. There's also a theological problem with that interpretation which actually diminishes the grace of Christ. If Jesus is the merchant and we are the pearl then this suggests that we have an inherent value and that Jesus' sacrifice was the most sensible thing he could do because we are so valuable. But God's grace is so much greater than this. Jesus loves the unlovely and the unlovable. He gives his life for sinners who have made themselves worthless in order to give them value. In retelling the parable with Jesus as the merchant figure, preachers often conclude by saying "THAT's how valuable you are!" The message becomes one of self-esteem. The gospel should really make us say: "That's how amazing God's grace is!"
 
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There are quite a number of parables and aphorisms which are quite problematic in their interpretation. Some of the problem is in our ignorance of the customs and beliefs of a culture that is largely foreign to us. Another part is that we interpret out of a context of 1700 years of cultural dominance. Finally some parables simply don't make sense and even seem counter intuitive.
 
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cloudyday2

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I can sympathize with this reading because it seeks to emphasize the love of Christ but I don't believe it's really warranted by the parable itself. The Greek doesn't shed light in either direction. There's also a theological problem with that interpretation which actually diminishes the grace of Christ. If Jesus is the merchant and we are the pearl then this suggests that we have an inherent value and that Jesus' sacrifice was the most sensible thing he could do because we are so valuable. But God's grace is so much greater than this. Jesus loves the unlovely and the unlovable. He gives his life for sinners who have made themselves worthless in order to give them value. In retelling the parable with Jesus as the merchant figure, preachers often conclude by saying "THAT's how valuable you are!" The message becomes one of self-esteem. The gospel should really make us say: "That's how amazing God's grace is!"
The solution I see is to see the pearl as the "image of God". No matter how selfish and stupid a person might be - and everybody is selfish and stupid - maybe there is a spark of God in all of us, but only God can see it through all the garbage we pile on it.
 
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One cannot separate this parable out of its context, if one is to correctly interpret its meaning.

Matt 13:24 Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is LIKE...a man who sowed GOOD SEED...an enemy BAD SEED...the harvest...angels separate the evil from the righteous

Matt 13:31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is LIKE...a mustard seed...where birds come & nest in its branches. (see Matt 13:4)

Matt 13:33 He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is LIKE...yeast...mixed in flour...until all is leavened. (see I Cor 5:6,7; Mark 8:15; Gal 5:6-10; Luke 12:1; Matt 16:6-12)

Matt 13:43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matt 13:44 “The kingdom of heaven is LIKE...treasure hidden in a field. When a man FOUND IT, he hid it again & then in his joy went & sold ALL he had & bought that field.

Matt 13:45 “AGAIN, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he FOUND ONE OF GREAT VALUE, he went away & sold EVERYTHING he had & bought it.

Matt 13:47 ONCE AGAIN, the kingdom of heaven is LIKE a net...catching all kinds of fish...good...bad...angels separate the wicked from the righteous...

Matt 13:51 “Have you understood all these things?” Jesus asked. “Yes,” they replied.

Because you understand all these things, for this reason I add this further thought.

Matt 13:52 Then He told them, “For this reason, every scribe who has been discipled in the kingdom of heaven is LIKE...a homeowner who brings out of his storeroom NEW treasures as well as OLD.”

Thayer's Greek Dictionary:

In the Bible, a scribe is a man learned in the Mosaic law & in the sacred writings of Scripture; an interpreter, teacher, writer of sacred writings.


Ellicott's Commentary

Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven--The verse is interesting as one of the very few passages in which our Lord compares His own work & that of the Apostles after Him to that of the scribes of the Jewish schools.

Men thought of Him as a Rabbi, no less than as a Prophet, or as the Christ--is clear from the facts that He was called by that name (or its equivalent, Master, or Teacher) both by His disciples & by others; that He assumed the office of a scribe, as interpreting the scriptures in the Sabbath services (Luke 4:16; John 7:15,16; Mark 6:2,3); that He questioned with the scribes after their own manner ("Have ye never read?" Matt 12:3; 19:4; 21:16, et al.) & as one of their order.

And now He was training the disciples, "unlearned" as they were, to be His successors in that office. They too, were sitting at the feet of a Gamaliel--of One greater than Gamaliel. (Acts 4:13) But His method of training was altogether of another kind than that of the Masters of the Schools.

It consisted, not in minute comments on the words of the Law, not in the subtleties of an intricate & often revolting speciousness of reasoning, not in childishness & fantastic legends, but rather in the eternal truths of His Father's kingdom & the manifold parables of those laws in the visible universe. In this way it was that He was educating them to be scribes of the kingdom of heaven.

Things new & old.--Our Lord's own teaching was, of course, the highest example of this union. There were the old eternal laws of righteousness, the proclamation of the true meaning of all that every true teacher had included in the idea of duty & religion.

But there were also new truths, such as His own mission as the King of the divine kingdom, the Head of the Body of Christ & the future Judge of all men, as well as the work of the Holy Spirit in regenerating & sanctifying.

As the years passed & new facts, such as the gospel to the Gentiles, the Crucifixion, Resurrection & Ascension--supplied the ground-work for new doctrines--these also took their place in the store-house of the well-instructed scribe.

But the words applied also to the manner no less than to the substance of the teaching. Now the old familiar words of Lawgiver & Psalmist, now the gracious words such as man had never heard till then, now illustrations freely drawn, in proverbs or parable, from the world of nature or of men--these too were part of the treasure of the scribe.

Prov 2:1-15 My son, if you accept my words & hide my commandments within you; if you incline your ear to wisdom & direct your heart to understanding; if you truly call out to insight & lift your voice to understanding; if you seek it like silver& search it out LIKE HIDDEN TREASURE,

5then you will discern the fear of the LORD & discover the knowledge of God. For the LORD gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge & understanding. He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk with integrity, to guard the paths of justice & protect the way of His saints.

9Then you will discern righteousness & justice & equity—every good path. For wisdom will enter your heart & knowledge will delight your soul. Discretion will watch over you & understanding will guard you, to deliver you from the way of evil, from the man who speaks perversity, from those who leave the straight paths to walk in the ways of darkness, from those who enjoy doing evil & rejoice in the twistedness of evil, whose paths are crooked & whose ways are devious.

The Cost of Being a Disciple of the Kingdom of Christ

Luke 14:25-33 Large crowds were now traveling with Jesus & He turned & said to them, “If anyone comes to Me & does not hate his father & mother & wife & children & brothers & sisters—yes, even his own life—he CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE. 27And whoever does not carry his cross & follow Me CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.

[Matt 10:37-39 Whoever loves father or mother MORE THAN ME IS NOT WORTHY OF ME & whoever loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And whoever does not take his cross & follow Me is not worthy of Me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it & whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.]

[Luke 9:24 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.]

28Which of you, wishing to build a tower, does not first sit down & COUNT THE COST to see if he has the resources to complete it? Otherwise, if he lays the foundation & is unable to finish the work, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, saying, ‘This man could not finish what he started to build.’

33In the same way, any one of you who DOES NOT GIVE UP EVERYTHING HE HAS CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.

The Rich Young Ruler

[Mark 10:17 As Jesus started on His way, a man ran up & knelt before Him.]

Luke 18:18-30 Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I DO to inherit eternal life?”

[Matt 19:16 Just then, a man came up to Jesus & inquired, “Teacher, what GOOD THING must I do to OBTAIN eternal life?”]

19“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.

[Mt 19:17,18 If you want to ENTER LIFE, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man asked]

20You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and mother.’ "All these have I kept from my youth,” he said.

[Matt 19:20 “All these I have kept,” said the young man. “WHAT DO I STILL LACK?”]

[Mark 10:21 Jesus looked at him, loved him & said to him...]

22On hearing this, Jesus told him, “You still lack one thing: Sell everything you own & give to the poor & you will have treasure in heaven. THEN COME & follow Me.”

23But when the ruler heard this, he became very sad, because he was extremely wealthy.

[Mark 10:22-24 But the man was saddened by these words & went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus looked around & said to His disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” And the disciples were amazed at His words.]

24Seeing the man’s sorrow, Jesus said, “How hard it is for those who TRUST in riches to ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Indeed, it is easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

[Mark 10:26 They were even more astonished & said to one another, “Who then can be saved?”]

26Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” “Look,” said Peter, “we have left everything we had to follow You.”

29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children FOR THE SAKE OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD will fail to receive many times more in this age—& in the age to come, eternal life.”

[Mark 10:29-31 'No one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for My sake & for the gospel will fail to receive a hundredfold in the present age—houses & brothers & sisters & mothers & children & fields, along with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last & the last will be first.”

[Matt 19:28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.]
 
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JackRT

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Matt 13:44 “The kingdom of heaven is LIKE...treasure hidden in a field. When a man FOUND IT, he hid it again & then in his joy went & sold ALL he had & bought that field.

This is one of the most problematic of all parables. A man is trespassing on the property of another. He is not just passing through, he is actively searching and finds a hidden treasure. To be fair, he doesn't steal it but he rehides it. He then buys the field without informing the rightful owner of the treasure. His behaviour goes from bad to worse. It is hard to see what possible lesson can be drawn from this story without ignoring the criminal behaviour.
 
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cloudyday2

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This is one of the most problematic of all parables. A man is trespassing on the property of another. He is not just passing through, he is actively searching and finds a hidden treasure. To be fair, he doesn't steal it but he rehides it. He then buys the field without informing the rightful owner of the treasure. His behaviour goes from bad to worse. It is hard to see what possible lesson can be drawn from this story without ignoring the criminal behaviour.
I watched a DVD study discussing this parable. Apparently the behavior was completely legal. The buried treasure was not the property of the landowner, but the treasure could not be removed legally without owning the land. I agree that the story doesn't sound good by modern standards.
 
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cloudyday2

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One cannot separate this parable out of its context, if one is to correctly interpret its meaning.

Matt 13:24 Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is LIKE...a man who sowed GOOD SEED...an enemy BAD SEED...the harvest...angels separate the evil from the righteous

Matt 13:31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is LIKE...a mustard seed...where birds come & nest in its branches. (see Matt 13:4)

Matt 13:33 He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is LIKE...yeast...mixed in flour...until all is leavened. (see I Cor 5:6,7; Mark 8:15; Gal 5:6-10; Luke 12:1; Matt 16:6-12)

Matt 13:43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matt 13:44 “The kingdom of heaven is LIKE...treasure hidden in a field. When a man FOUND IT, he hid it again & then in his joy went & sold ALL he had & bought that field.

Matt 13:45 “AGAIN, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he FOUND ONE OF GREAT VALUE, he went away & sold EVERYTHING he had & bought it.

Matt 13:47 ONCE AGAIN, the kingdom of heaven is LIKE a net...catching all kinds of fish...good...bad...angels separate the wicked from the righteous...

Matt 13:51 “Have you understood all these things?” Jesus asked. “Yes,” they replied.

Because you understand all these things, for this reason I add this further thought.

Matt 13:52 Then He told them, “For this reason, every scribe who has been discipled in the kingdom of heaven is LIKE...a homeowner who brings out of his storeroom NEW treasures as well as OLD.”

Thayer's Greek Dictionary:

In the Bible, a scribe is a man learned in the Mosaic law & in the sacred writings of Scripture; an interpreter, teacher, writer of sacred writings.


Ellicott's Commentary

Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven--The verse is interesting as one of the very few passages in which our Lord compares His own work & that of the Apostles after Him to that of the scribes of the Jewish schools.

Men thought of Him as a Rabbi, no less than as a Prophet, or as the Christ--is clear from the facts that He was called by that name (or its equivalent, Master, or Teacher) both by His disciples & by others; that He assumed the office of a scribe, as interpreting the scriptures in the Sabbath services (Luke 4:16; John 7:15,16; Mark 6:2,3); that He questioned with the scribes after their own manner ("Have ye never read?" Matt 12:3; 19:4; 21:16, et al.) & as one of their order.

And now He was training the disciples, "unlearned" as they were, to be His successors in that office. They too, were sitting at the feet of a Gamaliel--of One greater than Gamaliel. (Acts 4:13) But His method of training was altogether of another kind than that of the Masters of the Schools.

It consisted, not in minute comments on the words of the Law, not in the subtleties of an intricate & often revolting speciousness of reasoning, not in childishness & fantastic legends, but rather in the eternal truths of His Father's kingdom & the manifold parables of those laws in the visible universe. In this way it was that He was educating them to be scribes of the kingdom of heaven.

Things new & old.--Our Lord's own teaching was, of course, the highest example of this union. There were the old eternal laws of righteousness, the proclamation of the true meaning of all that every true teacher had included in the idea of duty & religion.

But there were also new truths, such as His own mission as the King of the divine kingdom, the Head of the Body of Christ & the future Judge of all men, as well as the work of the Holy Spirit in regenerating & sanctifying.

As the years passed & new facts, such as the gospel to the Gentiles, the Crucifixion, Resurrection & Ascension--supplied the ground-work for new doctrines--these also took their place in the store-house of the well-instructed scribe.

But the words applied also to the manner no less than to the substance of the teaching. Now the old familiar words of Lawgiver & Psalmist, now the gracious words such as man had never heard till then, now illustrations freely drawn, in proverbs or parable, from the world of nature or of men--these too were part of the treasure of the scribe.

Prov 2:1-15 My son, if you accept my words & hide my commandments within you; if you incline your ear to wisdom & direct your heart to understanding; if you truly call out to insight & lift your voice to understanding; if you seek it like silver& search it out LIKE HIDDEN TREASURE,

5then you will discern the fear of the LORD & discover the knowledge of God. For the LORD gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge & understanding. He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk with integrity, to guard the paths of justice & protect the way of His saints.

9Then you will discern righteousness & justice & equity—every good path. For wisdom will enter your heart & knowledge will delight your soul. Discretion will watch over you & understanding will guard you, to deliver you from the way of evil, from the man who speaks perversity, from those who leave the straight paths to walk in the ways of darkness, from those who enjoy doing evil & rejoice in the twistedness of evil, whose paths are crooked & whose ways are devious.

The Cost of Being a Disciple of the Kingdom of Christ

Luke 14:25-33 Large crowds were now traveling with Jesus & He turned & said to them, “If anyone comes to Me & does not hate his father & mother & wife & children & brothers & sisters—yes, even his own life—he CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE. 27And whoever does not carry his cross & follow Me CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.

[Matt 10:37-39 Whoever loves father or mother MORE THAN ME IS NOT WORTHY OF ME & whoever loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And whoever does not take his cross & follow Me is not worthy of Me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it & whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.]

[Luke 9:24 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.]

28Which of you, wishing to build a tower, does not first sit down & COUNT THE COST to see if he has the resources to complete it? Otherwise, if he lays the foundation & is unable to finish the work, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, saying, ‘This man could not finish what he started to build.’

33In the same way, any one of you who DOES NOT GIVE UP EVERYTHING HE HAS CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.

The Rich Young Ruler

[Mark 10:17 As Jesus started on His way, a man ran up & knelt before Him.]

Luke 18:18-30 Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I DO to inherit eternal life?”

[Matt 19:16 Just then, a man came up to Jesus & inquired, “Teacher, what GOOD THING must I do to OBTAIN eternal life?”]

19“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.

[Mt 19:17,18 If you want to ENTER LIFE, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man asked]

20You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and mother.’ "All these have I kept from my youth,” he said.

[Matt 19:20 “All these I have kept,” said the young man. “WHAT DO I STILL LACK?”]

[Mark 10:21 Jesus looked at him, loved him & said to him...]

22On hearing this, Jesus told him, “You still lack one thing: Sell everything you own & give to the poor & you will have treasure in heaven. THEN COME & follow Me.”

23But when the ruler heard this, he became very sad, because he was extremely wealthy.

[Mark 10:22-24 But the man was saddened by these words & went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus looked around & said to His disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” And the disciples were amazed at His words.]

24Seeing the man’s sorrow, Jesus said, “How hard it is for those who TRUST in riches to ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Indeed, it is easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

[Mark 10:26 They were even more astonished & said to one another, “Who then can be saved?”]

26Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” “Look,” said Peter, “we have left everything we had to follow You.”

29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children FOR THE SAKE OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD will fail to receive many times more in this age—& in the age to come, eternal life.”

[Mark 10:29-31 'No one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for My sake & for the gospel will fail to receive a hundredfold in the present age—houses & brothers & sisters & mothers & children & fields, along with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last & the last will be first.”

[Matt 19:28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.]
So what's the verdict? Can the kingdom of heaven be the merchant rather than the pearl?
 
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cloudyday2

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There is another version of this parable in the Gospel of Thomas that might be equating the kingdom of heaven with the pearl rather than the merchant.
'Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a merchant who had a supply of merchandise and found a pearl. That merchant was prudent; he sold the merchandise and bought the single pearl for himself. So also with you, seek his treasure that is unfailing, that is enduring, where no moth comes to eat and no worm destroys."'
Parable of the Pearl - Wikipedia
 
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Mathetes66

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You are on the right track, cloudy. Read my whole post and you should from all the related passages, especially Jesus' teachings & how each parable dovetails with the others, especially the one about the treasure JUST BEFORE the one on the pearl of great price or value. They are almost identical. It should give you an idea of how I understand it, from the whole context & other teachings of Christ.

Jesus spoke in parables to the crowds. They didn't want to dig in and study it or go to Jesus for the understanding of them. Yet all the disciples of Christ understood them, once Christ explained several of them.

Jesus said if you understand them, then you will be my scribes & disciples who can teach others about what the kingdom of God & heaven is & how to enter it & also be a teacher of it.

John 3:3-21 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born a second time.”

4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”

5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, NO ONE CAN ENTER the kingdom of God unless he is born of water AND the Spirit. He who is born of the flesh is flesh, but he who is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born a second time.’ The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked. “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things?

12If I have told you about earthly things & you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.
 
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The solution I see is to see the pearl as the "image of God". No matter how selfish and stupid a person might be - and everybody is selfish and stupid - maybe there is a spark of God in all of us, but only God can see it through all the garbage we pile on it.


I think that would be more in tune with a diamond,
dug up, cleaned up and polished up.

A pearl would indicate potential.
 
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I watched a DVD study discussing this parable. Apparently the behavior was completely legal. The buried treasure was not the property of the landowner, but the treasure could not be removed legally without owning the land. I agree that the story doesn't sound good by modern standards.

I sounds far worse than "doesn't sound good" --- it sounds rotten.
 
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Mathetes66

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"This is one of the most problematic of all parables. A man is trespassing on the property of another. He is not just passing through, he is actively searching and finds a hidden treasure. To be fair, he doesn't steal it but he rehides it. He then buys the field without informing the rightful owner of the treasure. His behavior goes from bad to worse. It is hard to see what possible lesson can be drawn from this story without ignoring the criminal behavior."

"It sounds far worse than "doesn't sound good" --- it sounds rotten."

For you to say the above shows you are not a believer or a follower in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Forum Rules state you cannot denigrate our Lord & Savior.

This is a parable, not a real life story. I don't think you are ignorant of this fact. Jesus would never advocate lying, trespassing, etc. But you have blasphemed the Messiah.

May God have mercy on you. The very One you blaspheme is the very One who can save your soul & even forgive your blasphemy. You also should pay attention to the context of what Jesus said that applies directly to you.

Matthew 13:10-17 Then the disciples came & said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has NOT been given.

2For to the one who has, more will be given & he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be TAKEN AWAY.

13This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see & hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

14Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

'You will indeed hear but never understand & you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people’s heart has grown callous & with their ears they can barely hear & their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes & hear with their ears & understand with their heart & turn & I would heal them.’
 
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JackRT

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For you to say the above shows you are not a believer or a follower in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Forum Rules state you cannot denigrate our Lord & Savior.

This is a parable, not a real life story. I don't think you are ignorant of this fact. Jesus would never advocate lying, trespassing, etc. But you have blasphemed the Messiah.

May God have mercy on you. The very One you blaspheme is the very One who can save your soul & even forgive your blasphemy. You also should pay attention to the context of what Jesus said that applies directly to you.

I regret that you hold such a low opinion of me. Blasphemy is a strong accusation and I certainly have not in any way done that. Christian belief and practice are so very diverse that accusations like this are all too easy and very much too frequent. I will refrain from responding in anger.

I have been a Christian for over 75 years but I do not regard the Bible as either literal or inerrant. I suspect that Jesus' parable may have been garbled over the roughly 50 years it spent in oral tradition. I also think that this has happened with other parables and some the stories about Jesus. We also need to remember that Matthew was likely a rabbi or at least a sophar and was writing in the literary tradition of haggadic midrash which few Christians are familiar with.
 
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Mathetes66

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"I regret that you hold such a low opinion of me. Blasphemy is a strong accusation and I certainly have not in any way done that. Christian belief and practice are so very diverse that accusations like this are all too easy and very much too frequent. I will refrain from responding in anger.

I have been a Christian for over 75 years but I do not regard the Bible as either literal or inerrant. I suspect that Jesus' parable may have been garbled over the roughly 50 years it spent in oral tradition. I also think that this has happened with other parables and some the stories about Jesus. We also need to remember that Matthew was likely a rabbi or at least a sophar and was writing in the literary tradition of haggadic midrash which few Christians are familiar with."

Actually my opinion of you is quite high; it is your opinion of who Jesus is that is quite low, as well as the Scriptures, of which your comments above show your ignorance of them & choosing to believe the speculations & wild imaginations of those who have a low opinion of both Jesus & the Holy Scriptures.

Jesus could not have been the promised Messiah with over 600 prophecies directly related to Him, with over half of them fulfilled the first time He came down from heaven to this earth & the Savior of the earth IF He had sinned even once.

I Peter 2:22,23 "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth. When they heaped abuse on Him, He did not retaliate...

Isaiah 53:9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked & with a rich man in His death, although He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.

2 Corinthians 5:22 God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

Hebrews 7:26 Such a high priest truly befits us--One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners & exalted above the heavens.

Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this Man hath done nothing amiss.

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin.

I John 3:5 But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, & in Him there is no sin.

This parable is directly attributed to Jesus & that He was the one teaching them. Again, to say that Jesus would ever teach people to break the Law or deceive people about what was on the land in the not reality story to illustrate spiritual truth--is to equate Jesus is a sinner & a deceiver.

That is breaking the Forum Rules as well as being what I called it: blasphemy. To say Jesus is a sinner like the rest of us is just that. He could not be the predicted Messiah. He could not be the Prophet Moses talked about in the Torah. He could not be Immanuel, 'God with us' & He could not be the innocent & unblemished Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

Your wild speculations that somehow the parables were garbled up for over 50 years of oral tradition has no backing in historical record or authentication in archaeological findings. Again your ignorance of when the books of the NT were written is showing.

Also your ignorance it appears (ignorance is not a denigrative term, only means one does not know yet) of how accurate the New Testament writings are in the Greek (we have over 5500 ancient manuscripts, uncials, papyri, codexes, etc.) that can be compared & show those writings to be extremely accurate.

Also the Old Testament (OT) writings are also extremely accurate, especially in the very ancient Hebrew writings found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, where every book of the OT is found except the one book of Esther, which in one cave many of the manuscripts could not be salvaged & it may have been in that cave.

Here is Rabbi Tovia Singer showing this when someone asked him about one of the Psalms & ONE descrepancy that was found.


Also your ignorance about Matthew is excusable too. The speculation that he was a rabbi & a sophist is far off the mark of who he actually was, as described in the Bible & when Jesus called him to be one of His disciples.

Matthew authored the first Gospel of the Bible's New Testament, now known as the Gospel of Matthew. Prior to preaching the word of God, he worked as a tax collector in Capernaum. Matthew is the patron saint of tax collectors & accountants. The Feast of St. Matthew is annually celebrated on September 21.

Matthew a rabbi? Rabbi's hated tax collectors! They were in the class of 'sinners' & rabbi's would not dare be seen eating or sitting at table with a publican or tax collector! But Jesus did.

Matthew 9:10-13 And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors (publicans) & sinners came & were reclining with Jesus & His disciples. And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors & sinners?”

But when He heard it, He said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go & learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy & not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners TO REPENTANCE.”

Matt 11:18,19 For John came neither eating nor drinking & they say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man came eating & drinking & they say, ‘Look at this glutton & drunkard, a friend of tax collectors & of sinners!’ But WISDOM IS VINDICATED BY HER ACTIONS.”

Luke 3:12,13 Even tax collectors came to be baptized. "Teacher," they asked, "what should we do?" (to John the Baptist) “Collect no more than you are authorized,” he answered.

Matthew 21:32 Jesus said... "For John came to you in a righteous way & you did not believe him, but the tax collectors & prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did NOT repent & believe him.

Even sceptical scholars like Bart Erhman has no problem admitting Jesus really existed or even that He did rise from the dead.

It is said to see that you don't believe the Bible to be an accurate historical narrative document or that God didn't inspire it, repeating throughout the whole Bible that this is the revelation of God. Jesus repeatedly said the same thing! So again, it appears Jesus is on trial again for being deceptive & not truthful, for people who believe like you do.

For myself, I said I was a Christian for many years but wasn't one. I had deceived myself. I wasn't spiritually born a second time in life. I said I was born once in a Christian family. I said I have been a Christian all my life. But I wasn't. I had not been born a second time in this life by God's Holy Spirit & regenerated. That didn't happen until almost 19 years later.

I John 2:3-6 By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

These verses were what the Holy Spirit used to convict me of my deception of thinking I was a Christian when I was not.

'Born once, die twice; born twice (in this life), die only once.' Martin Luther

John 8:30-32 As Jesus spoke these things, many believed in Him. 31So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you CONTINUE IN MY WORD, THEN you are truly MY disciples. And THEN you will KNOW THE TRUTH & then the truth will SET YOU FREE.”

If one cannot even believe that what Jesus said & taught in the Bible is the truth & not something all garbled up & unreliable, how in the world can one ever be a follower & disciple of Christ?

Because Jesus said the key mark of one that is truly a disciple of His CONTINUES IN HIS WORD. If one does THEN they learn the truth. And continuing leads to not only knowing the truth, but actually being set free in this life--from the power of sin, Satan & this worldly system of evil.
 
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JackRT

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Actually my opinion of you is quite high; it is your opinion of who Jesus is that is quite low, as well as the Scriptures, of which your comments above show your ignorance of them & choosing to believe the speculations & wild imaginations of those who have a low opinion of both Jesus & the Holy Scriptures.

Jesus could not have been the promised Messiah with over 600 prophecies directly related to Him, with over half of them fulfilled the first time He came down from heaven to this earth & the Savior of the earth IF He had sinned even once.

I Peter 2:22,23 "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth. When they heaped abuse on Him, He did not retaliate...

Isaiah 53:9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked & with a rich man in His death, although He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.

2 Corinthians 5:22 God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

Hebrews 7:26 Such a high priest truly befits us--One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners & exalted above the heavens.

Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this Man hath done nothing amiss.

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin.

I John 3:5 But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, & in Him there is no sin.

This parable is directly attributed to Jesus & that He was the one teaching them. Again, to say that Jesus would ever teach people to break the Law or deceive people about what was on the land in the not reality story to illustrate spiritual truth--is to equate Jesus is a sinner & a deceiver.

That is breaking the Forum Rules as well as being what I called it: blasphemy. To say Jesus is a sinner like the rest of us is just that. He could not be the predicted Messiah. He could not be the Prophet Moses talked about in the Torah. He could not be Immanuel, 'God with us' & He could not be the innocent & unblemished Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

Your wild speculations that somehow the parables were garbled up for over 50 years of oral tradition has no backing in historical record or authentication in archaeological findings. Again your ignorance of when the books of the NT were written is showing.

Also your ignorance it appears (ignorance is not a denigrative term, only means one does not know yet) of how accurate the New Testament writings are in the Greek (we have over 5500 ancient manuscripts, uncials, papyri, codexes, etc.) that can be compared & show those writings to be extremely accurate.

Also the Old Testament (OT) writings are also extremely accurate, especially in the very ancient Hebrew writings found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, where every book of the OT is found except the one book of Esther, which in one cave many of the manuscripts could not be salvaged & it may have been in that cave.

Here is Rabbi Tovia Singer showing this when someone asked him about one of the Psalms & ONE descrepancy that was found.


Also your ignorance about Matthew is excusable too. The speculation that he was a rabbi & a sophist is far off the mark of who he actually was, as described in the Bible & when Jesus called him to be one of His disciples.

Matthew authored the first Gospel of the Bible's New Testament, now known as the Gospel of Matthew. Prior to preaching the word of God, he worked as a tax collector in Capernaum. Matthew is the patron saint of tax collectors & accountants. The Feast of St. Matthew is annually celebrated on September 21.

Matthew a rabbi? Rabbi's hated tax collectors! They were in the class of 'sinners' & rabbi's would not dare be seen eating or sitting at table with a publican or tax collector! But Jesus did.

Matthew 9:10-13 And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors (publicans) & sinners came & were reclining with Jesus & His disciples. And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors & sinners?”

But when He heard it, He said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go & learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy & not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners TO REPENTANCE.”

Matt 11:18,19 For John came neither eating nor drinking & they say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man came eating & drinking & they say, ‘Look at this glutton & drunkard, a friend of tax collectors & of sinners!’ But WISDOM IS VINDICATED BY HER ACTIONS.”

Luke 3:12,13 Even tax collectors came to be baptized. "Teacher," they asked, "what should we do?" (to John the Baptist) “Collect no more than you are authorized,” he answered.

Matthew 21:32 Jesus said... "For John came to you in a righteous way & you did not believe him, but the tax collectors & prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did NOT repent & believe him.

Even sceptical scholars like Bart Erhman has no problem admitting Jesus really existed or even that He did rise from the dead.

It is said to see that you don't believe the Bible to be an accurate historical narrative document or that God didn't inspire it, repeating throughout the whole Bible that this is the revelation of God. Jesus repeatedly said the same thing! So again, it appears Jesus is on trial again for being deceptive & not truthful, for people who believe like you do.

For myself, I said I was a Christian for many years but wasn't one. I had deceived myself. I wasn't spiritually born a second time in life. I said I was born once in a Christian family. I said I have been a Christian all my life. But I wasn't. I had not been born a second time in this life by God's Holy Spirit & regenerated. That didn't happen until almost 19 years later.

I John 2:3-6 By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

These verses were what the Holy Spirit used to convict me of my deception of thinking I was a Christian when I was not.

'Born once, die twice; born twice (in this life), die only once.' Martin Luther

John 8:30-32 As Jesus spoke these things, many believed in Him. 31So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you CONTINUE IN MY WORD, THEN you are truly MY disciples. And THEN you will KNOW THE TRUTH & then the truth will SET YOU FREE.”

If one cannot even believe that what Jesus said & taught in the Bible is the truth & not something all garbled up & unreliable, how in the world can one ever be a follower & disciple of Christ?

Because Jesus said the key mark of one that is truly a disciple of His CONTINUES IN HIS WORD. If one does THEN they learn the truth. And continuing leads to not only knowing the truth, but actually being set free in this life--from the power of sin, Satan & this worldly system of evil.

I am a liberal/progressive Christian because, after all these decades, it is the only way I know to maintain my spiritual and intellectual integrity. Go with God my friend, you have my prayers.
 
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