The end result of the doctrine is a life dedicated to the Lord Who bought us at Calvary with His unspeakable gift.
I said, "No one says that truly being born again should not and does not always result in change. Where do you find anyone saying such a thing?"
Non sense. Your beating a straw man. No one says that being born again should not and does not result in change.
"...when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves," Romans 2:14
"You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed
as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" Galatians 3:1-3
"I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is
really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"
Galatians 1:6-9
Of course. Who says otherwise?
You don't have to ask. Like Paul and Peter before me I do commit sin - all too often.
Assuming you mean sin done on this side of glorification - no. But they will give an account for everything done while in the flesh and will receive suffer loss or gain based on how they conducted their lives.
I have no idea what you mean by this.
Most people understand that there are both true believers and otherwise in every church group.
Praise be to God.
Only if you don't teach that our salvation is based on overcoming sin rather than on the work of Jesus Christ.
Your saying that you don't know any OSAS teachers seems to speak volumes to me. It has struck me all along that you are basing your objections to the doctrine of the eternal security of believers on straw men you have either created or read from anti-grace commentators here in the forum or elsewhere.
Everyone says that sin matters. To say that believers in eternal security say different is simply wrong. What you are railing against is "antinomianism - a teaching that hasn't been seen in the church for nearly 2000 years.
Your are simply failing to allow for those who see sin mattering to God resulting in alienation from His Spirit in this life and or judgment and loss when we face Him at the Judgement Seat - differing with those who are antinomians (who really don't exist now except as straw men).
You don't see any options for God except to remove His Holy Spirit which was given as a pledge, booting a believer off the throne where he is seated with Christ in the Heavenlies, and branding His former child as an enemy and waiting for him to repent to the extent that God can grant grace to him again and start over hoping it doesn't happen too close to death that that repentance and amends made will be in time save him again.
You will likely tell me that that isn't what you teach. But it is in fact the actual result of that you as saying.
The only people I know of who don't include occasional sinners in their "saved" category are anti-OSAS cranks and those who are preaching a gospel of works (which is no gospel at all).
Their catch phrase is actually quite right.
Again - you are beating a straw man in some cases and that is probably because you have misunderstood the gospel.
You will have them.
But you need to back off the anti-OSAS bandwagon until you have a better grasp on what believers in eternal security actually teach and where they get that teaching.
The term OSAS is almost exclusively used by anti eternal security types. Many of those, to be charitable, simply misunderstand the basis of their own salvation.
To be less charitable, many have no salvation to begin with and will find themselves before Christ pointing to their good works and His supposed "Lordship" in their life as their hope of salvation. In those cases - they will find that He "never knew" them because they had never personally rested in His work at Calvary and as their intercessor as their base for salvation.
Apparently you are wrong.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven
will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" Matthew 7:21-23
"There is no one good but God."
You are exactly right.
You now understand the basis for the vicarious and substitutionary life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ our advocate before God in Whom we were sealed unto the day of judgement with the Holy Spirit Who will never leave us nor forsake us.
"...all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment" Isaiah 64:6
“There is none righteous, not even one" Romans 3:10
"But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from
the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which
comes from God on the basis of faith,"
Phil. 3:7-9
These things are really basic evangelical "Christianity 101" stuff.
You need to get out of these debates for a while and study the basics before returning to argue doctrine.
You said yourself that you don't know many "OSAS" teachers. Here's your chance for an education concerning their teachings.
I left the faith as a young man because I couldn't "stay saved" through refraining from certain sins. I was away from the faith and in sin for some 15 years simply because of the constant supposed "loss of salvation" and "confession and repentance" to get saved again that had been laid on me as a boy by folks of your persuasion.
The very first thing I did when believing again was to get the basis of sinners "getting saved and staying saved" down pat. I have been teaching these things right now for over 40 years.
That belief in my security has been the anchor which keeps me in the faith. On the other hand - the kind of teaching shoveled out by works salvation types (including you) was the reason for my departing the faith and living in sin for many years.
This is the last long post of this kind I will take the time with.
If you have specific questions about what advocates for the eternal security of true believers believe and teach - I will be glad to provide that .
But I will not defend against straw men and charges of antinomianism.
Make them short and pithy questions from now on out or we will not be talking any more. I simply don't have the time for these kinds of exchanges.
