Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

parousia70 · Jul 9, 2019

nolidad said:
Two thirds of Jews will be killed in the 70 th week of Daniel and yes nothing worse will ever happen to Israel.

Championing this event to be future to us the way you do Sounds extremely Antisemitic to me.

As for the kings you cited?

REad past just teh words none before or after! God was speaking of a particular attribute of each king!

Solomon- his wisdom

But Jesus' Wisdom Surpasses even Solomon's.
Matthew 12:42
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

How can that be when Solomon's wisdom was prophesied to the the greatest of any King of Israel before or After?

And what about Ezekiel 5:8-9

Show us YOUR "better" hermeneutic?

8 therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Indeed I, even I, am against you and will execute judgments in your midst in the sight of the nations. 9 And I will do among you what I have never done, and the like of which I will never do again, because of all your abominations.

How can any Judgement be worse than that one was?
And can show us the evidence that the nations VISIBLY SAW God executing those Judgments?

I've read plenty of History, but I must have missed the historical documentation of the nations of that time visibly seeing with their eyes God Come into Israel's midst and execute those judgments.

Can you point me to any?

nolidad · Jul 10, 2019

keras said:
There have always been people faithful to God, from Abel until today. Jesus brought His message of reconciliation to all who would accept it.
Jesus was in Judea when He told the disciples to go to the House of Israel.
There were Jews scattered in other places and Paul always preached in their synagogues. They all rejected the Gospel and the Jews in Jerusalem arranged to have Jesus crucified.

So the House of Israel is another identity and unless it refers to the faithful Christian people of today, then Jesus' mission failed. Confirmed by Ephesians 2:1-18, Galatians 3:26-29.

You don't seem to see the many prophesies that refer directly to the House of Judah; the Jewish people, of their virtual demise and only a remnant will survive. Jeremiah 12:14
Conversely, righteous Israel has many blessings promised in the end times.

1. The house of Israel means all 12 tribes in the land- Jesus first mission was to present HImself as Israel's Messiah which He did! They rejected HIm nationally as prophesied. But Jews in all ages have gotten saved-even in the church age- They are the Israel of God!

No Jesus mission did not fail. It succeeded! He foreknew that the nation of Israel would reject His Messiahship and thus ready the church.

You seem to forget that the house of Israel was a man made designation and not Gods. the 12 tribes have always comprised the house of Israel. When Jesus commanded the apostles to only go to the house of Israel, there were veryvery very few of the ten tribes in Israel. Sennecharib had scattered them far and wide.

nolidad · Jul 10, 2019

BABerean2 said:
If you think all of Romans 11 is in the future take off your Dispensational glasses and read it again.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

As far as taking the Gospel to Orthodox Jews, I am not the one claiming that all Jews are blinded now, as many Dispensationalists claim because of their faulty interpretation of Romans 11.

Straining at gnats you are! I was refering ot the passage all Israel will be saved after teh fulness of the Gentiles come in- that you wrote.

And no I do not think all of Romans 11 is future- just the passage you cited!

Well all Israel do have a veil over their minds! Some hear the gospel and become part of the body of Christ That is just Scripture.

Claiming we have a faulty interpretation is foolish. We accept it as written. Not like allegorists wqho say " I know what it says, but this is what it means". That is a faulty interpretation.

nolidad · Jul 10, 2019

parousia70 said:
Championing this event to be future to us the way you do Sounds extremely Antisemitic to me.

It is future whether I champion it or not. And the fact that 2/3 of all Jews will be killed during the tribulation or 70 week of Daniel is simply the Bible! YOu are free to think anything you want, but I know my heart, so I will keep my own counsel on that.

parousia70 said:
But Jesus' Wisdom Surpasses even Solomon's.
Matthew 12:42
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

How can that be when Solomon's wisdom was prophesied to the the greatest of any King of Israel before or After?

Seriously paruosia are you that myopic? They are talking about the worldly kings! Jesus is far superior to everyone in all these categories- you should know better than that!

parousia70 said:
And what about Ezekiel 5:8-9

Show us YOUR "better" hermeneutic?

What happened in teh fulfilmkent of this prophesy is the worst trial Israel ever went through.

Starvation was rampant and after they had exhausted saw dust bread and eating rats and bugs, they became cannibals.

But Matt. 24 is tribulation that is global and not just against Jerusalem. Keeping things in their context helps us to know the scope of a judgment.

Here is Jerusalem MAtt. 24 is the world!

Verses to tell you the context and scope of MAtt. 24:

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

(the world not just Jerusalem)
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

parousia70 · Jul 10, 2019

nolidad said:
It is future whether I champion it or not. And the fact that 2/3 of all Jews will be killed during the tribulation or 70 week of Daniel is simply the Bible! YOu are free to think anything you want, but I know my heart, so I will keep my own counsel on that.

OK... you heard it here folks.
nolidad is calling for, championing and, it appears, even hoping for the violent slaughter of 2/3 of the worlds Jews in the near future.

I know of only one word for that.

Seriously paruosia are you that myopic? They are talking about the worldly kings!

Are you denying Jesus Christ is a Human King of earthly Israel?
You need to show scriptural evidence that Jesus isn't a human King of Israel, and thus is to be exempt from the kings we are discussing (Solomon, Jesus, Hezekiah, Josiah). There is no evidence to support this radical distinction. None at all.

Jesus is far superior to everyone in all these categories-

Which proves my point!
"ever was or ever shall be", and it's derivatives such as we see above, are common, Hebraic Idiom for "Very Great" or "Very much" and the like, and do not denote any sort of "Absolute" nature, as the Solomon/Jesus comparison undeniably demonstrates.

What happened in teh fulfilmkent of this prophesy is the worst trial Israel ever went through.

Starvation was rampant and after they had exhausted saw dust bread and eating rats and bugs, they became cannibals.

70AD was worse.

But Matt. 24 is tribulation that is global and not just against Jerusalem. Keeping things in their context helps us to know the scope of a judgment.

Here is Jerusalem MAtt. 24 is the world!

Is not Jerusalem part of "The World"?

keras · Jul 10, 2019

nolidad said:
You seem to forget that the house of Israel was a man made designation and not Gods. the 12 tribes have always comprised the house of Israel. When Jesus commanded the apostles to only go to the house of Israel, there were veryvery very few of the ten tribes in Israel. Sennecharib had scattered them far and wide.

It is proved by archeological, heraldic and linguistic means that the ten tribes migrated across Europe and are now the Western Christian nations. The Jewish people only represent 2 of the 12 tribes.
The apostles did take the Gospel to Israel, we Christians are the successful result.

parousia70 said:
OK... you heard it here folks.
nolidad is calling for, championing and, it appears, even hoping for the violent slaughter of 2/3 of the worlds Jews in the near future.

I know of only one word for that.

C'mon Parousia, don't make nasty accusations!
Nolidad is just quoting Zechariah 13:8-9 and there are many other prophesies that tell of the virtual demise of the Jewish State of Israel. Ezekiel 21:1-7 and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

BABerean2 · Jul 10, 2019

nolidad said:
Well all Israel do have a veil over their minds! Some hear the gospel and become part of the body of Christ That is just Scripture.

Your two sentences above stand in direct opposition to each other.

First you say "all Israel" do have a veil over their minds.

Then you turn around and say some hear the Gospel and become part of the body of Christ.

Both statements cannot be correct.

Based on Luke 21:24-28, the times of the Gentiles comes to fullness at the future Second Coming of Christ.

Because the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20 the "Church Age" cannot end before the Second Coming of Christ.

.

nolidad · Jul 11, 2019

parousia70 said:
OK... you heard it here folks.
nolidad is calling for, championing and, it appears, even hoping for the violent slaughter of 2/3 of the worlds Jews in the near future.

I know of only one word for that.

I have seen silly people in my life- but you are in a league of your own. You have falsely accused a brother of championing soimething that he doesn't Sin one. Sin two- calling for teh slaughter! sin three presumption that I believe your lies about me! The bible declares two thirds of all Jews will be killed in the 70 th week of Daniel. If you think simply reporting what God has prophesied is racism or whatever other snake oil you are trying to peddle- is an issue that is bigger than a discussion site!

parousia70 said:
Are you denying Jesus Christ is a Human King of earthly Israel?
You need to show scriptural evidence that Jesus isn't a human King of Israel, and thus is to be exempt from the kings we are discussing (Solomon, Jesus, Hezekiah, Josiah). There is no evidence to support this radical distinction. None at all.

Straw man.

parousia70 said:
Which proves my point!
"ever was or ever shall be", and it's derivatives such as we see above, are common, Hebraic Idiom for "Very Great" or "Very much" and the like, and do not denote any sort of "Absolute" nature, as the Solomon/Jesus comparison undeniably demonstrates.

Well I will take the word of the Messianic Jewish scholar that is a teacher of mine.

parousia70 said:
70AD was worse.

And what is going ot happen globally in teh 2nd half of Daniels 70th week will make both these historic events seem like a picnic!

parousia70 said:
Is not Jerusalem part of "The World"?

Really? are you that nit picky that you have to make such a benighted comment like that?

nolidad · Jul 11, 2019

keras said:
It is proved by archeological, heraldic and linguistic means that the ten tribes migrated across Europe and are now the Western Christian nations. The Jewish people only represent 2 of the 12 tribes.
The apostles did take the Gospel to Israel, we Christians are the successful result.

I hate to tell you this but Jewish means all 12 tribes! It only means the 2 when context requires it!
When Paul said to the Jew first- He was talking about all 12 tribes that comprise Israel.

And that old worn out thoroughly debunked hypothesis that the ten tribes are the western gentiles is just that-- debunked! I am sure some of the ten northern tribes of Israel were scattered in Europe- but they do not comprise the whole of the western Christian nations.! The gentiles were in these lands long before any scattered Jews found there way there! there is Jewish blood not Judean and Israelite blood. Then there is gentile blood. europe is mostly gentile blood. Following your hypothesis then- Germany just killed 6,000,000 from the 2 southern tribes because they were just Jews and not Israelite.

The only archeological uniqueness Israel ever had was the temple. Almost all of European and American archtiecture modeled from old styles are greco roman not Israelitish.

Europe had its own languages long before the Syrian dispersion. The only8 language that is even remotely similar to Hebrew is the slavic languages. But that is just very remotely.

Heraldic? ISRAEL HAD TWELVE TRIBES WHAT HERALDY ARE YOU REFERRING TO?

nolidad · Jul 11, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Your two sentences above stand in direct opposition to each other.

First you say "all Israel" do have a veil over their minds.

Then you turn around and say some hear the Gospel and become part of the body of Christ.

Both statements cannot be correct.

Based on Luke 21:24-28, the times of the Gentiles comes to fullness at the future Second Coming of Christ.

Because the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20 the "Church Age" cannot end before the Second Coming of Christ.

Well welcome to the world of biblical paradoxes!

There is a veil on Jews minds- but yet at the same time- there is always a remnant in every generation! Both are biblical!

You are correct as to when the times of the Gentiles end! Not the fullness of the Gentiles as Paul wrote in Romans 11. Luke is escatological and Romans is soteriological.

Yes teh New Covenant is everlasting. But do not forget that the New Covenanat is made to both houses of Israel and we Gentiles are just beneficiaries of that Covenanat.

Jeremiah 31:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

It rubs our pride the wrong way- but we gentiles are just simply add ons to the new covenant.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

BABerean2 · Jul 11, 2019

nolidad said:
Well welcome to the world of biblical paradoxes!

There is a veil on Jews minds- but yet at the same time- there is always a remnant in every generation! Both are biblical!

You are correct as to when the times of the Gentiles end! Not the fullness of the Gentiles as Paul wrote in Romans 11. Luke is escatological and Romans is soteriological.

Yes teh New Covenant is everlasting. But do not forget that the New Covenanat is made to both houses of Israel and we Gentiles are just beneficiaries of that Covenanat.

Jeremiah 31:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

It rubs our pride the wrong way- but we gentiles are just simply add ons to the new covenant.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

How can you quote Jeremiah 31:31-34, but then attempt to ignore the word "now" in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, which quote the text from Jeremiah 31:31-34, and which show the New Covenant has already been fulfilled?

How can you try to ignore 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, which show the New Covenant being applied specifically to the Church?

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

.

nolidad · Jul 11, 2019

BABerean2 said:
How can you quote Jeremiah 31:31-34, but then attempt to ignore the word "now" in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, which quote the text from Jeremiah 31:31-34, and which show the New Covenant has already been fulfilled?

How can you try to ignore 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, which show the New Covenant being applied specifically to the Church?

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

So show when this was fulfilled to the house of Israel and the house of Judah:

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Seems to me that I look around and I don't see all Jews withth e law of God in their mind and heart and they are not teaching their neighbors (especially the Palestinians) to know the Lord for every will know form the least to eh greatest.

But after the end of teh 70th week of Daniel and the entire remaining remanat of Jews on the earth get saved as prophesied, this will come to pass! Buckle up for the days to come!

BABerean2 · Jul 11, 2019

nolidad said:
So show when this was fulfilled to the house of Israel and the house of Judah:

Notice the word "now" found in the passage below, and the exact text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 quoted by the author of the Book of Hebrews in Uppercase letters.

What does "now" mean to you?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Also in the passage below we find part of the exact text quoted in Uppercase letters from Jeremiah 31:31-34, with the word "now".

Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Have you redefined the meaning of the word "now" to make modern Dispensational Theology work?

You might also notice below how Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31.
When the Church began it was made up almost entirely of Israelites. The Gentiles were grafted in several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as Dispensationalists often imply in an attempt to make their Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

.

keras · Jul 11, 2019

nolidad said:
I hate to tell you this but Jewish means all 12 tribes! It only means the 2 when context requires it!
When Paul said to the Jew first- He was talking about all 12 tribes that comprise Israel.

As the Bible prophets carefully maintained the separation between the House of Judah and the House of Israel, in over 160 passages, we should do the same.
Reading Ezekiel 37 makes it clear that they have not rejoined as yet.

nolidad said:
Heraldic? ISRAEL HAD TWELVE TRIBES WHAT HERALDY ARE YOU REFERRING TO?

Don't you know what Heraldry is? Judging from your poorly worded and misspelled posts, I am not surprised. Please take more care; this is an international forum.
Heraldry is the flags and symbols of a nation. Those things go right back to the beginning and we can identify the origin of the modern nations from them. Its a fascinating study.

nolidad said:
But after the end of teh 70th week of Daniel and the entire remaining remanat of Jews on the earth get saved as prophesied,

WHERE is this prophesied?
We just confirmed from Zech 13, that most of the Jews get killed. Saying the Jewish people get saved after the Great Tribulation, is just a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory, that is also never prophesied to happen.

nolidad · Jul 12, 2019

keras said:
Don't you know what Heraldry is? Judging from your poorly worded and misspelled posts, I am not surprised. Please take more care; this is an international forum.
Heraldry is the flags and symbols of a nation. Those things go right back to the beginning and we can identify the origin of the modern nations from them. Its a fascinating study.

I try to take care- if spell check lets something pass, my spelling wanes. And what does poor spelling have to do with whether I know about heraldry or not other than to hurl a subtle accusation.

I know what Heraldry is. but a clan or nation copying or imitating another symbol is not proof that they came from that ancient ethnos. Israel did not have much symbology in flags.

And as for the distinction of Judah and Israel with the prophets- most of those distinctions were in near term events.

Right now I am sure people from all 12 tribes are residing in Israel.

keras said:
WHERE is this prophesied?
We just confirmed from Zech 13, that most of the Jews get killed. Saying the Jewish people get saved after the Great Tribulation, is just a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory, that is also never prophesied to happen.

Not in the least! The new Covenant promises it and Paul reiterates it as well in Romans 11.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

If Israel is faithful Christians as you allege then you must conclude that blindness in part has hit the church! So Paul, in writing to the church says the church is blinded until the who? comes in?

Sorry but God calls all twelve tribes Israel here! And just like in Ezekiel with the divided stick being joined- thie tribes will be reunited as has been happening since 1948.

nolidad · Jul 12, 2019

BABerean2 said:
Notice the word "now" found in the passage below, and the exact text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 quoted by the author of the Book of Hebrews in Uppercase letters.

What does "now" mean to you?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Also in the passage below we find part of the exact text quoted in Uppercase letters from Jeremiah 31:31-34, with the word "now

Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Have you redefined the meaning of the word "now" to make modern Dispensational Theology work?

You might also notice below how Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31.
When the Church began it was made up almost entirely of Israelites. The Gentiles were grafted in several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as Dispensationalists often imply in an attempt to make their Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

.

All this verbage to buttress the word "now" and yet you failed to read the passage!

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry,

The now refers to his more excellent ministry!

BABerean2 said:
When the Church began it was made up almost entirely of Israelites. The Gentiles were grafted in several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as Dispensationalists often imply in an attempt to make their Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

Werll having been a dispensationialist for over 44 years now, and having read many many works on dispensationalism, I have never seen this implication. Can you cite one place where dispensational theology implies this? I would be the first to tear it down.

When we speak of two people, we speak of OT saints (Israel) and the church and that just simply refers to our roles in the 1,000 year kingdom Jesus is soon to set up!

BABerean2 said:
You might also notice below how Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31.

Careful! You are going to get Karas on your path! He alleges that Israel in the NT is the Church! ^_^

And no Peter did not address only th e assembled crowd as the whole house of Israel. Peter was making a statement to include all Jews. not just the crowd.

But even your opinion still doesn't fulfill Jeremiah 31 because the whole house of Israel and Judah is invovled- and some there did not accept the Lord that day! so it fails as fulfilment of prophesy.

BABerean2 · Jul 12, 2019

nolidad said:
Werll having been a dispensationialist for over 44 years now, and having read many many works on dispensationalism, I have never seen this implication. Can you cite one place where dispensational theology implies this? I would be the first to tear it down.

Are you saying you have never heard the modern Church described as the "Gentile Church"? Pastor Jack Hibbs has often made that statement.

My own Sunday School teacher once made the following statement.

"Once the Gentile Church is removed, God will go back and deal with Israel."

Are you trying to ignore the rest of Hebrews 8:6?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

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keras · Jul 12, 2019

nolidad said:
Right now I am sure people from all 12 tribes are residing in Israel

There are some from each tribe who joined Judah anciently and still up to today. The accepted Judaism and became Jews.
But the majority of the 10 Northern tribes were taken captive and exiled by Assyria. They remain in their decreed exile today. Ezekiel 4:4-5 and Leviticus 26:18 = 2730 years since 722-715 BC, nearly completed now.
THEY have received the promises of God to them, as Jacob and Moses told them and God sent Jesus to save them. We Christians are the result.

BABerean2 said:
My own Sunday School teacher once made the following statement.

"Once the Gentile Church is removed, God will go back and deal with Israel."

Wolves among the flock!
Lies that support false teachings. We ARE the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

St. Helens · Jul 12, 2019

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Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

Did event of Israel 1948 fulfill any Bible prophecy?

No

Yes

I don't know

Other

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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I stand with Israel

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