LDS Can LDS add teachings to the word of God?

Ironhold · Jul 7, 2019

dzheremi said:
After learning of the questioning to get a temple recommend, I find this hard to believe.

It's literally an interview with pre-written questions about submitting to the authorities of your religion. How is this not legalism?

Once every few years vs. someone standing over you daily, the latter of which being what was being alleged above.

ViaCrucis · Jul 8, 2019

He is the way said:
The main theme of the Bible and the Book of Mormon is to LOVE God and keep His commandments.

That's certainly not the main theme of the Bible.
The main theme of the Bible is Jesus Christ, "You search the Scriptures since in these you believe you have eternal life, it is these which bear witness to Me."

-CryptoLutheran

He is the way · Jul 9, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
That's certainly not the main theme of the Bible.
The main theme of the Bible is Jesus Christ, "You search the Scriptures since in these you believe you have eternal life, it is these which bear witness to Me."

-CryptoLutheran

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

ViaCrucis · Jul 9, 2019

He is the way said:
(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Context context context.

The "whole matter" being the content which "The Teacher" had been going on about.

It's often believed that this little bit of positivity added to the end of Ecclesiastes is an amendation from a later editor, given the immense pessimism of the text. Giving a, "So if everything is so meaningless in life, what does matter?" Well, what does matter, from a Jewish perspective, is honoring God and observing God's Torah. Since observing Torah is the covenant identity of the Jewish people. But wanna take a guess as to what the point of the covenant, the point of the Torah, is?

Just curious, are you really trying to argue that keeping commandments is more important than Jesus? Because if that's really what you are trying to argue here, then that certainly speaks volumes. And it's not good.

-CryptoLutheran

He is the way · Jul 9, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
Context context context.

The "whole matter" being the content which "The Teacher" had been going on about.

It's often believed that this little bit of positivity added to the end of Ecclesiastes is an amendation from a later editor, given the immense pessimism of the text. Giving a, "So if everything is so meaningless in life, what does matter?" Well, what does matter, from a Jewish perspective, is honoring God and observing God's Torah. Since observing Torah is the covenant identity of the Jewish people. But wanna take a guess as to what the point of the covenant, the point of the Torah, is?

Just curious, are you really trying to argue that keeping commandments is more important than Jesus? Because if that's really what you are trying to argue here, then that certainly speaks volumes. And it's not good.

-CryptoLutheran

Without the atonement no one would be saved. That being said let us review what Jesus had to say about the commandments:
(New Testament | John 14:15 - 24)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

ViaCrucis · Jul 9, 2019

He is the way said:
Without the atonement no one would be saved. That being said let us review what Jesus had to say about the commandments:
(New Testament | John 14:15 - 24)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

You only rolled a 4 on your Reflex Save, you fail your dodge attempt. You still have to address the subject matter of the post addressed to you.

-CryptoLutheran

dzheremi · Jul 9, 2019

Yeah, good luck with that...I used to ask that they take into account the context and traditional interpretations of things, and then I'd wait...and wait...and wait...until I eventually learned to just assert things and leave links to full texts to back up those assertions, because otherwise...

twin.spin · Jul 9, 2019

LDS understanding of "Atonement" is one of the two:

1) to ultimately be judged by Heavenly Father

"Through the Atonement, Jesus Christ redeems all people from the effects of the Fall. All people who have ever lived on the earth and who ever will live on the earth will be resurrected and brought back into the presence of God to be judged" (True to the Faith, p. 18)

* However, to stay in his presence and live with him for all eternity, a person must:

receive the temple ordinances
must also show their worthiness by keeping the commandments.

2) Jesus' paying for their sins. The cavate however, is the thought that you have to pay Jesus back.

see Boyd K. Packer's parable of the creditor and debtor.
see the chapter on atonement in Gospel Principles.

Biblical Christianity teaches that "Atonement" is this:

Hebrews 10:18

That through his voluntary sacrifice, Jesus made payment (atoned) for all sin.
Therefore, salvation is free and full in Jesus. No more requirements can be made or necessary.

ViaCrucis · Jul 9, 2019

He is the way said:
Without the atonement no one would be saved. That being said let us review what Jesus had to say about the commandments:
(New Testament | John 14:15 - 24)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Now, see, I woudln't think that pointing out that the point of the Bible is Jesus would be controversial. It's certainly not controversial among mainstream Christian churches, regardless of denomination or tradition. From East to West, from Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Protestantism that Jesus is the point--the point of the Bible, the point of religion, the point of, well, everything really isn't a controversial idea.

The Bible is about Jesus.
The Gospel is about Jesus.
Every facet of Christian ritual and practice is about Jesus.
We've divided the year up into seasons, all which are about Jesus.

None of this should be controversial. After all ours is the religion of Jesus Christ. Our faith is upon Jesus Christ. Our devotion, our hope, our life is in Jesus Christ. From borning cry to final breath, it is all Jesus Christ.

That doesn't seem to be the message I'm getting from you about your religious persuasion. Jesus seems to be more tangential, more of a side-figure, Jesus is more utilitarian, a means to an end, not the end itself.

Is Jesus the point of Mormonism?
Because Jesus is the point of Catholicism.
Jesus is the point of Orthodoxy.
Jesus is the point of Lutheranism.
Jesus is the point of Anglicanism.
Jesus is the point of Presbyterianism.
Et al.

And this shouldn't be a hard question to answer either. This should be the easiest question for anyone who calls themselves a Christian to be able to answer.

-CryptoLuthearn

He is the way · Jul 9, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
Context context context.

The "whole matter" being the content which "The Teacher" had been going on about.

It's often believed that this little bit of positivity added to the end of Ecclesiastes is an amendation from a later editor, given the immense pessimism of the text. Giving a, "So if everything is so meaningless in life, what does matter?" Well, what does matter, from a Jewish perspective, is honoring God and observing God's Torah. Since observing Torah is the covenant identity of the Jewish people. But wanna take a guess as to what the point of the covenant, the point of the Torah, is?

Just curious, are you really trying to argue that keeping commandments is more important than Jesus? Because if that's really what you are trying to argue here, then that certainly speaks volumes. And it's not good.

-CryptoLutheran

You said: "It's often believed that this little bit of positivity added to the end of Ecclesiastes is an amendation from a later editor, given the immense pessimism of the text. Giving a, "So if everything is so meaningless in life, what does matter?" Well, what does matter, from a Jewish perspective, is honoring God and observing God's Torah. Since observing Torah is the covenant identity of the Jewish people. But wanna take a guess as to what the point of the covenant, the point of the Torah, is?"

Regardless of whether the last two verses of Ecclesiastes is a amendation or not it is part of the Bible which is from God. The Torah is the book of the law or commandments. Jesus said:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:18 - 19)

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

He is the way · Jul 9, 2019

dzheremi said:
Yeah, good luck with that...I used to ask that they take into account the context and traditional interpretations of things, and then I'd wait...and wait...and wait...until I eventually learned to just assert things and leave links to full texts to back up those assertions, because otherwise...

We all have busy lives and we don't read all of the posts.

dzheremi · Jul 9, 2019

I'm referring to posts that get replied to and the low quality, context-denying/ignoring replies that often follow well-thought out posts by my Christian brothers and sisters.

He is the way · Jul 9, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
Now, see, I woudln't think that pointing out that the point of the Bible is Jesus would be controversial. It's certainly not controversial among mainstream Christian churches, regardless of denomination or tradition. From East to West, from Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Protestantism that Jesus is the point--the point of the Bible, the point of religion, the point of, well, everything really isn't a controversial idea.

The Bible is about Jesus.
The Gospel is about Jesus.
Every facet of Christian ritual and practice is about Jesus.
We've divided the year up into seasons, all which are about Jesus.

None of this should be controversial. After all ours is the religion of Jesus Christ. Our faith is upon Jesus Christ. Our devotion, our hope, our life is in Jesus Christ. From borning cry to final breath, it is all Jesus Christ.

That doesn't seem to be the message I'm getting from you about your religious persuasion. Jesus seems to be more tangential, more of a side-figure, Jesus is more utilitarian, a means to an end, not the end itself.

Is Jesus the point of Mormonism?
Because Jesus is the point of Catholicism.
Jesus is the point of Orthodoxy.
Jesus is the point of Lutheranism.
Jesus is the point of Anglicanism.
Jesus is the point of Presbyterianism.
Et al.

And this shouldn't be a hard question to answer either. This should be the easiest question for anyone who calls themselves a Christian to be able to answer.

-CryptoLuthearn

I thought It was made very clear by the verses I quoted that those who LOVE Jesus Christ will keep the commandments and those who do not LOVE Him will not keep the commandments. As a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints I believe that keeping the commandments is the way to show LOVE for Jesus Christ. Does anyone have a better way to show how much they LOVE Jesus? I remember what Jesus taught:

(New Testament | Matthew 25:40)

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

He is the way · Jul 9, 2019

dzheremi said:
I'm referring to posts that get replied to and the low quality, context-denying/ignoring replies that often follow well-thought out posts by my Christian brothers and sisters.

I like to keep things simple and cut to the chase. There is no sense to complicate the gospel:

(Old Testament | Malachi 3:18)

18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

dzheremi · Jul 9, 2019

He is the way said:
I thought It was made very clear by the verses I quoted that those who LOVE Jesus Christ will keep the commandments and those who do not LOVE Him will not keep the commandments. As a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints I believe that keeping the commandments is the way to show LOVE for Jesus Christ. Does anyone have a better way to show how much they LOVE Jesus? I remember what Jesus taught:

(New Testament | Matthew 25:40)

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

This is a lot of words to not answer the question, especially from someone who just wrote about not "complicating" the gospel.

Is Jesus the point of Mormonism or not?

He is the way · Jul 9, 2019

dzheremi said:
This is a lot of words to not answer the question, especially from someone who just wrote about not "complicating" the gospel.

Is Jesus the point of Mormonism or not?

I did say I was a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints.

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 4:5)

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

(New Testament | Colossians 1:28 - 29)

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

dzheremi · Jul 9, 2019

I can't speak for anyone else, but from where I'm sitting this is a simple yes or no answer, and anything else is from the devil.

The fact that you refuse to give such an answer and dance around the topic with diversions about the copyrighted name of your religious organization is telling. Seems like the answer is no.

Rescued One · Jul 9, 2019

He is the way said:
Without the atonement no one would be saved. That being said let us review what Jesus had to say about the commandments:
(New Testament | John 14:15-24) .....

When we feel troubled, unsure, afraid, or discouraged, doing the following can help us access the power of grace and the Atonement:

Believe in the Father and in the Son and all They have promised to do for us.
Obey God’s commandments and partake of the sacrament regularly to build spiritual strength.
Pray, fast, study the scriptures, and worship in the temple to feel God’s love and know of His promises.
The Enabling Power of the Atonement

The Lord Himself invited us to activate the atonement through the reception of the Holy Ghost. As we do any of the above, we are using our agency to choose God. And when we do this, the Holy Ghost comes. When we were confirmed members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the person doing so confirms us and then tells us: “receive the Holy Ghost.” It is command, not an endowment. We are the ones who have to act to receive the Holy Ghost. And though we have been given the gift of the Holy Ghost, the gift is only activated as we do the things that will bring the presence of the Holy Ghost. We get to choose to receive the Holy Ghost every day of our life, or not. And when we DO choose to receive the Holy Ghost, we activate the power of the atonement. I love what Henry B. Eyring said about this activation power:

“Receiving the Holy Ghost is the therapy which effects forgiveness and heals the sin-sick soul. Now that is a fact you can act on with confidence. You can invite the Holy Ghost’s companionship in your life. And you can know when he is there, and when he withdraws. And when he is your companion, you can have confidence that the Atonement is working in your life.” 11

All these things will activate the power of the atonement in your life. We all need it, whether we are putting off the natural man, becoming a saint,12 or like Moroni said, at “the end…when all the saints shall dwell with God.” 13 You fit in one of those. The atonement is powerful. I need that power. You need that power. Activate the power of the atonement in your life.
6 Ways to Activate the Power of the Atonement In Your Life - The Returned Missionary - Live the Gospel & Your Dreams

The gift of the Holy Ghost is the right or privilege of receiving divine manifestations, spiritual gifts, and direction from the Holy Ghost. This gift is conferred upon members of the Church by the laying on of hands following baptism. It is considered one of the essential ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ and an absolute prerequisite of salvation.
Gift of the Holy Ghost - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

Rescued One · Jul 9, 2019

He is the way said:
I did say I was a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints.

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 4:5)

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

(New Testament | Colossians 1:28 - 29)

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Your missionaries told me to read the Book of Mormon; they said nothing about reading the Bible.

Rescued One · Jul 9, 2019

He is the way said:
I did say I was a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints.

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 4:5)

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

That's interesting. The missionaries tried to prove that the Father has body of flesh and bones and that the Father and Son appeared to Joseph Smith, but how could Joseph Smith see God? He must have lied or hallucinated because he didn't even hold the priesthood.

Anyway, priesthood or no priesthood,

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

LDS Can LDS add teachings to the word of God?

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Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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