What Must a Person Do to be Saved?

K2K said:

It's a bit off the topic - but briefly:

First note that it says the Spirit and fire, so two things which came come together or not. The Lord speaks to us through the Spirit, who does not speak on His own but as He hears He speaks. He acts like a living telephone line to our Lord Jesus Christ. About 20 years ago I was awoken early and a voice came over my shoulder saying, "READ YOUR BIBLE", and it hit me hard, and shook me up as if someone had hit me on the side of the head. After weird spiritual things started happening. They are best describe like hearing the sound of the wind. I believe that was when I was baptized in the Spirit, and I learned more about it as things happened. Basically I had my spiritual ears and eyes opened at the time, but had to learn more about using them.

The fire came about nine months later. Shortly after I had finished reading my Bible, in the middle of the night I was awoken and upon sitting up it seemed like perhaps I swallowed a bug but it went down with fire and a supernatural fire exploded in by heart. It's hard to describe, but it was a bit like heart burn but not that. I had be praying for the gift of tongues several times the days prior to that, and I picked up that gift then.

Now, I will get that fire inside come to me as a strong presences of the Lord at different times and it has spiritual meaning when it comes, though I often am not sure what it mean right away. Sunday it came to me very powerfully while driving. It brings on my speaking in tongues, and I usually ask the Lord for meaning. This time He just told me to let the Spirit to the work He needed to do, which I didn't understand until about two miles further down the road I came across a bad accident that had just happened. It appeared about five cars had been in it and two cars appeared to have flipped. One was still upside down. One lady had apparently just gotten out but at least one man was still stuck in the upside down car. So it was apparent that the prayers in the Spirit concerned the accident.

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To understand the phrase Holy Spirit and fire, please recall how Israel was baptized :

1 Corinthians 10
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Baptism released the hold that Egypt had on Israel, the insecurity of not being near resources, washing away the dependency even as they pursued her, so that she left without fear. God continued to feed her bread from heaven, created food and water shortages, and then saved, so that she would not be overcome by the return of those fears. But out of a million Jews over 20, only Joshua succeeded in overcoming those fears:

1 Corinthians 10
5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.

Psalm 78:32
In spite of all this, they kept on sinning; despite His wonderful works, they did not believe.

Psalm 103:7
He made known His ways to Moses, His deeds to the people of Israel.

Psalm 106:7
Our fathers in Egypt did not grasp Your wonders or remember Your abundant kindness; but they rebelled by the sea, there at the Red Sea.

Psalm 106:13
Yet they soon forgot His works and failed to wait for His counsel.

Psalm 106:21
They forgot God their Savior, who did great things in Egypt,

There was no baptism for a long while, because the teaching of leaving spiritual Egypt had been lost. John the Baptist again began baptising, teaching Israel to come out of Egypt and follow God, the baptism of water, showing how he had been freed from dependence on the world and how God had provided.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire was different. The two terms referred to the works and the words that God gave Jesus, just like God gave Moses in Exodus 4:

John 10
37“If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me (words), believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” 39Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

John 12
49“For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50“I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

The bread from heaven given to those baptized into Christ are works and words that free us from the captivity and oppression of Egypt.

Jesus opened up Scripture to the disciples so that it warmed their hearts, as much as the miracles they saw him do encouraged them to depend on God:

John 6
63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. 67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

…..


Luke 24
25And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26“Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” 27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

This is how Christ sanctifies us with works and words, Holy Spirit and fire:

Jeremiah 23
29“Is not My word like fire?” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer which shatters a rock?

Ephesians 5
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

I was raised as a Roman Catholic who tried to work my way into heaven through good works, just as the nuns had taught me. When I became a born again Christian at the age of 19, I had spent months arguing with a (Baptist) friend that salvation couldn't be the way she said - simple. One evening, however, alone in my dorm room, I gave her way a try. I repented of my sin and accepted the Lord's free gift of forgiveness and eternal life. My heart overflowed with gratitude as the peaceful realization that I was truly "saved" flooded through me.

I looked through this thread trying to find the verse that I have always claimed as my assurance that my salvation is forever locked in. It can never be lost. Once saved always saved. As a a good friend recently lamented to me how her adult, saved son had grown away from the Lord, this was the Scripture I used to reassure her that, other than committing the unpardonable sin of blaphsmey of of the Holy Spirit, her son's salvation could never be lost:
John 10:28 " I give them eternal life and they will never perish. Nothing can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

Before I was saved this all seemed so complicated...there had to be a catch somewhere. Nope. Perfect peace...perfect assurance...perfect simplicity. No denominational method. Just do what the Bible says: Repent, accept, thank, live forever.

Shadowprophet said:

Now, This Question isn't asked in the context of Ignorance. By this I mean, I know and understand what someone must do to Go to heaven.

No see, What I am asking is, What do "you think" A person must do to be guaranteed their spot in Gods Heaven? The reason I ask this Question in this way is, Some people think Their Churches way is the only way, For instance, I've heard That Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons believe you can't go to heaven until you evangelize and convert so many people.

The Baptist believe That No matter what you do in life, No matter how good you are, You aren't saved until you have this "experience where you are born again in spirit" The Church of Christ believe, "And I can testify to this because I was raised in the church of Christ" Do your best, Try your hardest and Maybe you Can go to heaven after judgment, But there is no such thing as a guaranteed spot" So My thing is this, I know that one's name can be removed from the book of life and they can fall from grace. But. Is Heaven A guarantee for anyone? And If so, How can someone Be sure their place in heaven is guaranteed? See the complexity here? I believe Gods word, But so many denominations interpret it differently.

so Can heaven be a true guarantee for anyone? And if so, Is Everyone that Believes In God and that Jesus Died for them Guaranteed Their place in Gods Heaven?

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You can't just say you believe. When the time comes you should also follow God and Jesus. But with that said, if you are able to sum up the energy and coordination to allow God within you then when God tries to save you you would let him in. Same goes for Jesus. It's really simple. The more you let God in the easier it would be to be saved. It doesn't really matter what religion you have. As long as you believe in the idea that there is someone that is all good and will come to save you at some point then of course when that day comes you are expecting him and would let him in. Does that make sense?
Even an agnostic has some chance but if a person denies the whole thing then they've shut themselves out from the light not the other way around but they won't see it since they would have no light to see with.

Wordkeeper said:

To understand the phrase Holy Spirit and fire, please recall how Israel was baptized :

1 Corinthians 10
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Baptism released the hold that Egypt had on Israel, the insecurity of not being near resources, washing away the dependency even as they pursued her, so that she left without fear. God continued to feed her bread from heaven, created food and water shortages, and then saved, so that she would not be overcome by the return of those fears. But out of a million Jews over 20, only Joshua succeeded in overcoming those fears:

1 Corinthians 10
5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.

Psalm 78:32
In spite of all this, they kept on sinning; despite His wonderful works, they did not believe.

Psalm 103:7
He made known His ways to Moses, His deeds to the people of Israel.

Psalm 106:7
Our fathers in Egypt did not grasp Your wonders or remember Your abundant kindness; but they rebelled by the sea, there at the Red Sea.

Psalm 106:13
Yet they soon forgot His works and failed to wait for His counsel.

Psalm 106:21
They forgot God their Savior, who did great things in Egypt,

There was no baptism for a long while, because the teaching of leaving spiritual Egypt had been lost. John the Baptist again began baptising, teaching Israel to come out of Egypt and follow God, the baptism of water, showing how he had been freed from dependence on the world and how God had provided.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire was different. The two terms referred to the works and the words that God gave Jesus, just like God gave Moses in Exodus 4:

John 10
37“If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me (words), believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” 39Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

John 12
49“For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50“I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

The bread from heaven given to those baptized into Christ are works and words that free us from the captivity and oppression of Egypt.

Jesus opened up Scripture to the disciples so that it warmed their hearts, as much as the miracles they saw him do encouraged them to depend on God:

John 6
63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. 67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

…..


Luke 24
25And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26“Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” 27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

This is how Christ sanctifies us with works and words, Holy Spirit and fire:

Jeremiah 23
29“Is not My word like fire?” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer which shatters a rock?

Ephesians 5
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

Click to expand...

It's great to do all the study, and it should be done - but what about just talking to the Lord and experiencing what He does then?

I mean - wasn't the main purpose of the Bible to get you to actually come to know Him?

K2K said:

It's great to do all the study, and it should be done - but what about just talking to the Lord and experiencing what He does then?

I mean - wasn't the main purpose of the Bible to get you to actually come to know Him?

Click to expand...

I'm just using the same methodology as Christ. He mapped all the events in Scripture to Himself and His ministry.

Luke 24
27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Wordkeeper said:

I'm just using the same methodology as Christ. He mapped all the events in Scripture to Himself and His ministry.

Luke 24
27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Click to expand...

Did Jesus map all the events in Scripture to Himself and His ministry?

Jesus sometime referenced a Scripture but never do you see Him lay out Scripture after Scripture after Scripture, after Scripture. He looks like He did go over the Scriptures and explained them to the men on the road, so they might understand, but quoting Scripture after Scriptures after Scriptures is not the explaining!

The point I am trying to get across is that we have a relationship with Jesus Christ and therefore it is a relationship with a person!!!! Yes - He is the Christ, but He is still a person.

So we are believing in a person and telling others to believe in a person - not a book, even the Book!!

If you believe in a person, the Christ, who said He would never leave you and who sent His Holy Spirit, then obviously you can have conversation in you spirit with Him. We can!! His sheep hear His voice.

Jesus said that many on that day would say that in His name they cast our demons, healed the sick, and prophesied but would be told by Him that He never knew them. They didn't get into heaven. They were not saved.

So the way to heaven is the relationship with Him, which of course comes to any that believes in Him, because if you believe that God is with you always, you are going to seek a conversation with Him! And if He is indeed always with you and to seek that conversation you are going to have it, or do we think that He is so rude as to not reply?

So consider what "mythology" Jesus used! Wasn't it call a relationship?

My friends - all those seeking salvation - having a relationship with the King of kings is the method for being saved. You have that relationship you are going to have to believe He is there to be heard from! You are also going to repent, or recognized that your ways are not the best ways, else you won't seek that conversation. The verses that were quoted all point to what I just explained, but it's not the verses which explain, nor my explanation, but people actually getting to know Him!

What doesn't make sense to me is that people can actually get to know Him and go back to making it about knowing Scriptures instead of knowing Him?

The Spirit once told me, "Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scriptures to preach the Lord."

So what was happening with the verse after verse after verse approach? I see Christians do that a lot. Are they not using the Scriptures that the Lord gave them to preach the Scriptures the Lord gave them instead of the person of Jesus Christ and the relationship that we can have with Him? It looks that way to me.

Wordkeeper said:

I'm just using the same methodology as Christ. He mapped all the events in Scripture to Himself and His ministry.

Luke 24
27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Click to expand...

Did Jesus map all the events in Scripture to Himself and His ministry?

Jesus sometime referenced a Scripture but never do you see Him lay out Scripture after Scripture after Scripture, after Scripture. He looks like He did go over the Scriptures and explained them to the men on the road, so they might understand, but quoting Scripture after Scriptures after Scriptures is not the explaining!

The point I am trying to get across is that we have a relationship with Jesus Christ and therefore it is a relationship with a person!!!! Yes - He is the Christ, but He is still a person.

So we are believing in a person and telling others to believe in a person - not a book, even the Book!!

If you believe in a person, the Christ, who said He would never leave you and who sent His Holy Spirit, then obviously you can have conversation in you spirit with Him. We can!! His sheep hear His voice.

Jesus said that many on that day would say that in His name they cast our demons, healed the sick, and prophesied but would be told by Him that He never knew them. They didn't get into heaven. They were not saved.

So the way to heaven is the relationship with Him, which of course comes to any that believes in Him, because if you believe that God is with you always, you are going to seek a conversation with Him! And if He is indeed always with you and to seek that conversation you are going to have it, or do we think that He is so rude as to not reply?

So consider what "mythology" Jesus used! Wasn't it call a relationship?

My friends - all those seeking salvation - having a relationship with the King of kings is the method for being saved. You have that relationship you are going to have to believe He is there to be heard from! You are also going to repent, or recognized that your ways are not the best ways, else you won't seek that conversation. The verses that were quoted all point to what I just explained, but it's not the verses which explain, nor my explanation, but people actually getting to know Him!

What doesn't make sense to me is that people can actually get to know Him and go back to making it about knowing Scriptures instead of knowing Him?

The Spirit once told me, "Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scriptures to preach the Lord."

So what was happening with the verse after verse after verse approach? I see Christians do that a lot. Are they not using the Scriptures that the Lord gave them to preach the Scriptures the Lord gave them instead of the person of Jesus Christ and the relationship that we can have with Him? It looks that way to me.

K2K said:

Did Jesus map all the events in Scripture to Himself and His ministry?

Jesus sometime referenced a Scripture but never do you see Him lay out Scripture after Scripture after Scripture, after Scripture. He looks like He did go over the Scriptures and explained them to the men on the road, so they might understand, but quoting Scripture after Scriptures after Scriptures is not the explaining!

The point I am trying to get across is that we have a relationship with Jesus Christ and therefore it is a relationship with a person!!!! Yes - He is the Christ, but He is still a person.

So we are believing in a person and telling others to believe in a person - not a book, even the Book!!

If you believe in a person, the Christ, who said He would never leave you and who sent His Holy Spirit, then obviously you can have conversation in you spirit with Him. We can!! His sheep hear His voice.

Jesus said that many on that day would say that in His name they cast our demons, healed the sick, and prophesied but would be told by Him that He never knew them. They didn't get into heaven. They were not saved.

So the way to heaven is the relationship with Him, which of course comes to any that believes in Him, because if you believe that God is with you always, you are going to seek a conversation with Him! And if He is indeed always with you and to seek that conversation you are going to have it, or do we think that He is so rude as to not reply?

So consider what "mythology" Jesus used! Wasn't it call a relationship?

My friends - all those seeking salvation - having a relationship with the King of kings is the method for being saved. You have that relationship you are going to have to believe He is there to be heard from! You are also going to repent, or recognized that your ways are not the best ways, else you won't seek that conversation. The verses that were quoted all point to what I just explained, but it's not the verses which explain, nor my explanation, but people actually getting to know Him!

What doesn't make sense to me is that people can actually get to know Him and go back to making it about knowing Scriptures instead of knowing Him?

The Spirit once told me, "Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scriptures to preach the Lord."

So what was happening with the verse after verse after verse approach? I see Christians do that a lot. Are they not using the Scriptures that the Lord gave them to preach the Scriptures the Lord gave them instead of the person of Jesus Christ and the relationship that we can have with Him? It looks that way to me.

Click to expand...

You mean that warm, fuzzy wuzzy feeling that is called "lurve" ?

That "head in the cloud" experience when boy friend Jesus is close by?

Fastest way to fall into a ditch, if you ask me.

Matthew 15
14Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.

Wordkeeper said:

You mean that warm, fuzzy wuzzy feeling that is called "lurve" ?

That "head in the cloud" experience when boy friend Jesus is close by?

Fastest way to fall into a ditch, if you ask me.

Matthew 15
14Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.

Click to expand...

I'm mean actually listening to the instructions, teachings, encouragement, and wisdom that come from the voice of the Lord! That includes "Reproof". But you have to listen to Him!! So what has He told you?

If someone has gotten to know the Lord, they would know that He doesn't just go around quoting Scriptures all day long!!! The first words He told me were, "Read Your Bible", but that is not what the relationship is made up of. The most common words I hear from Him personally are "Karl, I love you." Yet walking with Him is not made up or those words either. The most remarkable words I hear from Him are words of knowledge, often about some problem or injury that another person has which He was me to pray for.

There have been hundreds of times where He has pointed out a person and told me they have something like that. It is always strange when He suddenly starts talking to me and telling me 'that person (whom I rarely know) has a stomach problem or a bad elbow or knee, or who knows what. Then you wind up having to ask them about it, and the problem is there, so you wind up praying for it. And note: not one part of that is a Scripture! Oh, that is explained in the Scriptures, and I read about it in the Scriptures, but the Lord isn't quoting me Scriptures but just talking to Me.

So I find sad is the people who quote tons of Scriptures but don't seem to understand this basic aspect. It's like they know the Scriptures but not the Lord and they can't see that is a problem. It is a problem. Believing in Jesus Christ, means believing that He is there to talk to and to hear from also. It's part of the relationship. So it is not about the Scriptures, but the Scriptures explain that it is about Him. You need to know Him.

Didn't they read, Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Maybe they would have read that His sheep hear His voice, or that many would tell Him that they prophesied in His name but He would tell them He never knew them? Yet what I hope for them is that they would seek Him and get to know Him so that they might have words to share that He personally told them -- something like:

YOU DIDN’T MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD, BUT YOU CAN MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD.

or

AS INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN TO A SERVANT, AND WISDOM AND PARABLES TO A SON, AND AS JOKES ARE GIVEN TO A FRIEND, SO I LOVE YOU IS SAID TO A BRIDE.

Those are not scriptures, they are things my Lord personally spoke to me, along with "Read Your Bible" and "Karl, I love you.". If they had those types of experiences of personally hearing from the Lord themselves, would the make it about a list of Scriptures? No they wouldn't. They would make it about people coming to personally know the Lord. He is not a book. He is a person. If someone knows Him they would know that.

So they wouldn't right a sarcastic and irreverent statement like : "That "head in the cloud" experience when boy friend Jesus is close by?"

Because Jesus was the friend of Abraham and the friend of Moses.

And they also wouldn't write "Fastest way to fall into a ditch, if you ask me.", because they would know the fastest way to fall into a ditch would be to ask them instead of asking Jesus. That is why my efforts are get them to ask Jesus for themselves. They could if they truly believed Jesus Christ is there to be heard from!

He said, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock' if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me."

So the Scriptures have it right. They tell you to seek the voice of the Lord and become friends with Him. That is what it means by 'who-so-ever believes in Him shall be saved.'.

K2K said:

I'm mean actually listening to the instructions, teachings, encouragement, and wisdom that come from the voice of the Lord! That includes "Reproof". But you have to listen to Him!! So what has He told you?

If someone has gotten to know the Lord, they would know that He doesn't just go around quoting Scriptures all day long!!! The first words He told me were, "Read Your Bible", but that is not what the relationship is made up of. The most common words I hear from Him personally are "Karl, I love you." Yet walking with Him is not made up or those words either. The most remarkable words I hear from Him are words of knowledge, often about some problem or injury that another person has which He was me to pray for.

There have been hundreds of times where He has pointed out a person and told me they have something like that. It is always strange when He suddenly starts talking to me and telling me 'that person (whom I rarely know) has a stomach problem or a bad elbow or knee, or who knows what. Then you wind up having to ask them about it, and the problem is there, so you wind up praying for it. And note: not one part of that is a Scripture! Oh, that is explained in the Scriptures, and I read about it in the Scriptures, but the Lord isn't quoting me Scriptures but just talking to Me.

So I find sad is the people who quote tons of Scriptures but don't seem to understand this basic aspect. It's like they know the Scriptures but not the Lord and they can't see that is a problem. It is a problem. Believing in Jesus Christ, means believing that He is there to talk to and to hear from also. It's part of the relationship. So it is not about the Scriptures, but the Scriptures explain that it is about Him. You need to know Him.

Didn't they read, Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Maybe they would have read that His sheep hear His voice, or that many would tell Him that they prophesied in His name but He would tell them He never knew them? Yet what I hope for them is that they would seek Him and get to know Him so that they might have words to share that He personally told them -- something like:

YOU DIDN’T MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD, BUT YOU CAN MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD.

or

AS INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN TO A SERVANT, AND WISDOM AND PARABLES TO A SON, AND AS JOKES ARE GIVEN TO A FRIEND, SO I LOVE YOU IS SAID TO A BRIDE.

Those are not scriptures, they are things my Lord personally spoke to me, along with "Read Your Bible" and "Karl, I love you.". If they had those types of experiences of personally hearing from the Lord themselves, would the make it about a list of Scriptures? No they wouldn't. They would make it about people coming to personally know the Lord. He is not a book. He is a person. If someone knows Him they would know that.

So they wouldn't right a sarcastic and irreverent statement like : "That "head in the cloud" experience when boy friend Jesus is close by?"

Because Jesus was the friend of Abraham and the friend of Moses.

And they also wouldn't write "Fastest way to fall into a ditch, if you ask me.", because they would know the fastest way to fall into a ditch would be to ask them instead of asking Jesus. That is why my efforts are get them to ask Jesus for themselves. They could if they truly believed Jesus Christ is there to be heard from!

He said, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock' if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me."

So the Scriptures have it right. They tell you to seek the voice of the Lord and become friends with Him. That is what it means by 'who-so-ever believes in Him shall be saved.'.

Click to expand...

What if it isn't Jesus talking to you?

Shadowprophet said:

Now, This Question isn't asked in the context of Ignorance. By this I mean, I know and understand what someone must do to Go to heaven.

No see, What I am asking is, What do "you think" A person must do to be guaranteed their spot in Gods Heaven? The reason I ask this Question in this way is, Some people think Their Churches way is the only way, For instance, I've heard That Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons believe you can't go to heaven until you evangelize and convert so many people.

The Baptist believe That No matter what you do in life, No matter how good you are, You aren't saved until you have this "experience where you are born again in spirit" The Church of Christ believe, "And I can testify to this because I was raised in the church of Christ" Do your best, Try your hardest and Maybe you Can go to heaven after judgment, But there is no such thing as a guaranteed spot" So My thing is this, I know that one's name can be removed from the book of life and they can fall from grace. But. Is Heaven A guarantee for anyone? And If so, How can someone Be sure their place in heaven is guaranteed? See the complexity here? I believe Gods word, But so many denominations interpret it differently.

so Can heaven be a true guarantee for anyone? And if so, Is Everyone that Believes In God and that Jesus Died for them Guaranteed Their place in Gods Heaven?

Click to expand...

Never doubt in what Christ has done for us!

Ephesians 3:11-12
This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.

Wordkeeper said:

What if it isn't Jesus talking to you?

Click to expand...

The first words recorded that the snake in the garden said were "Did God really say?"

How are we at discernment of spirits?

It is written that all those who seek find: Do we believe that?
It is also written that we their ears they don't hear: So what has been heard?
Jesus told some, "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word" (Jn 8:43)

So there is great value in reading the Scriptures - they can so you that you need to seek the voice of the Lord, and practices doing that.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Because of practice seeking the Lord Jesus Christ and listening to what I hear it becomes obvious that the Lord is indeed there with me. Not Him alone, because there is that snake who like to ask me if I really believe that is indeed the Lord who speaks to me. The Holy Spirit encourages us to believe, the snake discourages us to believe. Almost inevitably after hearing something good from the Spirit of God another spirit comes along later trying to question whether it was really God who talked to me. Of course it was. Eve knew that and replied "God has said."

God has said, and He is still saying. I heard Benny Hinn once put it like this, "It is not thus said the Lord, it is thus saith the Lord. He is still saying today." So Eve's mistake was to not realize that she could have asked the Lord for who to respond to that snake. Instead she made the mistake of agreeing with the snake who says, "Did God really say", and "You surely will not die!".

My friends - The Spirit of God tells you that the Lord Jesus Christ is there to talk to you! You can hear from Him. Seek and you will find. The Spirit encourages you to have faith. The snake wants you to question that, to not believe in God, to turn you back from seeking the Lord. Oh, there are other things that snake will do if that doesn't work, but that is the first thing the snake tries. And this is explain in the Scriptures!

K2K said:

The first words recorded that the snake in the garden said were "Did God really say?"

How are we at discernment of spirits?

It is written that all those who seek find: Do we believe that?
It is also written that we their ears they don't hear: So what has been heard?
Jesus told some, "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word" (Jn 8:43)

So there is great value in reading the Scriptures - they can so you that you need to seek the voice of the Lord, and practices doing that.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Because of practice seeking the Lord Jesus Christ and listening to what I hear it becomes obvious that the Lord is indeed there with me. Not Him alone, because there is that snake who like to ask me if I really believe that is indeed the Lord who speaks to me. The Holy Spirit encourages us to believe, the snake discourages us to believe. Almost inevitably after hearing something good from the Spirit of God another spirit comes along later trying to question whether it was really God who talked to me. Of course it was. Eve knew that and replied "God has said."

God has said, and He is still saying. I heard Benny Hinn once put it like this, "It is not thus said the Lord, it is thus saith the Lord. He is still saying today." So Eve's mistake was to not realize that she could have asked the Lord for who to respond to that snake. Instead she made the mistake of agreeing with the snake who says, "Did God really say", and "You surely will not die!".

My friends - The Spirit of God tells you that the Lord Jesus Christ is there to talk to you! You can hear from Him. Seek and you will find. The Spirit encourages you to have faith. The snake wants you to question that, to not believe in God, to turn you back from seeking the Lord. Oh, there are other things that snake will do if that doesn't work, but that is the first thing the snake tries. And this is explain in the Scriptures!

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But you said to stay away from Scripture.

Shadowprophet said:

Is Heaven A guarantee for anyone? And If so, How can someone Be sure their place in heaven is guaranteed? See the complexity here? I believe Gods word, But so many denominations interpret it differently.

so Can heaven be a true guarantee for anyone? And if so, Is Everyone that Believes In God and that Jesus Died for them Guaranteed Their place in Gods Heaven?

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I'm gonna let God's Word handle this answer:
Yes, heaven is a guarantee, but only for those that believe in Jesus Christ and love Him by doing His commandments.
John 3:16-17, John 15:14-21

Being saved is also 3 tenses:
Past: 2 Timothy 1:9
Present: 2 Corinthians 2:15, Philippians 2:12-13
The Promise of Salvation: Ephesians 1:14, Revelation

In the last days, our bodies will be transformed into the incorruptible: 2 Corinthians 3:18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52

"But so many denominations interpret it differently." That is exactly why I trust only in God with what He says in His Word. Through the Holy Spirit I am guided to teachers, but even then I keep Him close because we can still say things that are of a personal interpretation and accidentally push that interpretation on someone who may not profit from it:
1 Corinthians 6:12, 1 Corinthians 10:23
That does not mean I correct them, God will tell me what to listen to and what not to listen to when it comes to these things - all in resonating from His Spirit to my spirit.

Trust in God.

Wordkeeper said:

But you said to stay away from Scripture.

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Never did I say to stay away from the Scriptures. In fact I explained that the first words the Lord told me was, "Read Your Bible". The problem is in depending on the Scriptures instead of depending upon the Lord Jesus Christ who is with you.

So what of someone that lists Scriptures after Scripture after Scriptures? Are they not making it about the Scriptures instead of making it about the Lord?

Jesus told the Jews, that they were searching the Scriptures instead of coming to Him for eternal life. And this thread is about eternal life. So one of the issues that needs to be brought up is us looking to the Scriptures instead of us looking to Him. That is why I responded:

K2K said:

It's great to do all the study, and it should be done - but what about just talking to the Lord and experiencing what He does then?

I mean - wasn't the main purpose of the Bible to get you to actually come to know Him?

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As you can read again, I said that it is "great to do all the study, and it should be done - but what about just talking to the Lord and experiencing what He does then?

The purpose of the Scriptures is to lead us to Jesus Christ. It is written:

"the sacred writings which are able to give you wisdom that leads to salvation which is in Christ Jesus"
(2 Tim:3:15)

Yet I see Christian who seem to think the Scriptures give them eternal life. So that they don't make it about seeking the voice of the Lord and listening to what He says, but instead make it about the Scriptures. It concerns me when I read someone say the Scriptures are a map to salvation. They are not. They point you to the Christ whose name is Jesus because He is God's salvation!!

Yet when I say He is God's salvation, I am not saying you need a map (like the Scriptures) to find Him, because His words are near you. In your heart and on your lips. So you don't go somewhere to find Him, you just open up to Him and what He has to say to you. That is the wisdom that the Scriptures are able to give a person! But by saying "able" it implies that not everyone is going to get that wisdom from reading the Scriptures! Which lead me to writing , "but what about just talking to the Lord and experiencing what He does then?"

What about just talking to Him?? He is there. And don't listen to that snake who like to say "Did god really say?" Not that you don't need to test the spirits, but that our Lord does really say. Practice listening and you will get better at discerning between good and evil spirit. It is written that He puts the law in our heart. So the basics are not hard to discern. Don't kill, don't lie, don't steal, etc. The devil wants you doing those things. And do seek first the Kingdom of God, because we have a King and He has a Kingdom. There are more with you than against you. There is Praise, the Joy of the Lord, the Peace of God, and all sorts of other angelic spirit that do serve Him. Still, we need to start by developing a relationship with the King, because He is the door. Get to know Him. That is done by listening to Him.

There are things that don't make a lot of sense with me after coming to know the Lord.

When the Lord came into my life I found out that He, Jesus Christ, is a person. That is why He is a he, isn't it?

The first words He told me were, "Read Your Bible", so I understand that reading the Bible is a top priority to Him, but He is not the Bible. He is not the writings! He is a person. Now I hear from Him and have for about twenty years now. I hear from Him via His Holy Spirit who speaks to my spirit. The Spirit, just as is written (Jn 16:13) does not speak on His own imitative but as He hears He speaks. That is what a telephone does! So the Spirit is like a living telephone line to my Lord Jesus Christ. And while it is His Spirit to my spirit, I can still pick Him up in "words"

He can and does talk to me about everything in my life. So from what clothes to wear, to what food to eat, to what gifts to get, to all kinds of teaching, reproof, and even the Bible, and it comes across in words. Of course, if I am not paying close attention it comes across like a feeling of unction. Also I have found out that the more I listen to Him and do what is asked, the better I can pick Him up in words. Still, being a person who gets busy, gets upset, gets, discouraged, gets all the things the average person gets also, I understand that sometimes I pick Him up in words better than other times. So what doesn't make sense to me?

What doesn't make sense to me is all the Christian who talk like they never hear Him in words. How can they say they know Him and don't hear the words He has to say to them??? Never-the-less, they say things like, "What He says to me comes across like an unction", or "What He says to me kind of resonates with me.", or "I just get this feeling it is the Lord." I do not doubt that is the case. It is often the case with me too, but I also realize I am not paying attention like I should, or I am having trouble believing for answer, or I am just to busy to listen, in those times.

To me, it is a problem when I am not hearing the "Words" He personally has to tell me!!!

Yet it seem to others not hearing Him in "words" is not a problem, it is expected.

Jesus said "His words were spirit and are life". So don't we think it a problem if we are not hearing Him in "words"?

Over and over it is written about how with their ears they don't hear! So wouldn't that be like not hearing Him in words?

I don't mean to come across too hard on people when they don't hear Him in words. Like I said, it often is the case to me, but that is my problem I confess, not my thinking I got it together. When I read the Bible it is clear that I need to hear His words better. Over and over and over the Bible talks about us not hearing like we should. So that has got to be the very thing we need to work on, isn't it. Those people who wrote the Bible, wrote "words". Reading those words or "The Word of God" as we like to say is not God talking to us, it was God talking to them!! We can learn from that, but what do we learn if not that we need to be hearing from Him personally.

I believe that is not only a matter of salvation, but also a matter of wisdom, or understanding, of being able to obey what He tells us, of us learning from Him what we need to learn from Him. Frankly, I believe hearing from Him is a matter of us having life, both in the future and life more abundantly now!!

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

I can tell people words that He has spoken to me personally. Words like "Read Your Bible" Thereby showing that His words spoken to me personally were "Read Your Bible", not the Bible. Those words were Him speaking to others and them writing them down. He can and often does tell me where to read in the Bible, since I finished the whole Bible already. Yet more often He talks to me about my life in general, but my life is not made up of reading the Bible all day long. He had me open a Christian book store for a couple of years; telling me where, what to name it, how to build book shelves for it, what inventory to get, and so many things to say to those who came in. Like the time He had me tell a man that he was kind of like a pastor. It turned out that the man was a Catholic Priest in regular clothes. I have had Him tell me problems that people have and had me pray over them. I have often seen Him heal many of them - hundreds of them according to the accounts they gave me.

I have testimonies, upon testimonies, upon testimonies, but don't think I am bragging about me. I am still the one who knows he needs to listen to the Lord more, and I didn't give me a single testimony. I did once hear that someone in town had been dead days and God brought Him back to life. I had no idea where the man was, only that I had heard the story while in the Christian bookstore I opened for Him. So I asked the Lord to introduce me to that man. With in two weeks the Lord had me go to a church I had never been at before and I meet the man in that church.

Sometime I mess things up so bad I wind up telling the Lord, 'How are you going to get me into heaven', and He has instantly told me "Get over it Karl. You are going to be in heaven." Of course, it is up to Him, but to answer the OP, I recommend that people start seeking Him and the words He has to personally say to them. It about a relationship with Him, and what person to you have a relationship with who you don't hear words from? So seek Him by faith and listen. The Word of God we preach is found in your heart and on your lips!!!

We may call the Bible the Word of God, but the Bible calls Jesus Christ the Word of God. The ink is on pages not your heart! And reading the Scriptures did not save the Pharisees, so don't think they will save you! You need to personally know the Lord. You need to listen to the words the Spirit of God personally speaks to you!!!

K2K said:

The first words recorded that the snake in the garden said were "Did God really say?"

How are we at discernment of spirits?

It is written that all those who seek find: Do we believe that?
It is also written that we their ears they don't hear: So what has been heard?
Jesus told some, "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word" (Jn 8:43)

So there is great value in reading the Scriptures - they can so you that you need to seek the voice of the Lord, and practices doing that.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Because of practice seeking the Lord Jesus Christ and listening to what I hear it becomes obvious that the Lord is indeed there with me. Not Him alone, because there is that snake who like to ask me if I really believe that is indeed the Lord who speaks to me. The Holy Spirit encourages us to believe, the snake discourages us to believe. Almost inevitably after hearing something good from the Spirit of God another spirit comes along later trying to question whether it was really God who talked to me. Of course it was. Eve knew that and replied "God has said."

God has said, and He is still saying. I heard Benny Hinn once put it like this, "It is not thus said the Lord, it is thus saith the Lord. He is still saying today." So Eve's mistake was to not realize that she could have asked the Lord for who to respond to that snake. Instead she made the mistake of agreeing with the snake who says, "Did God really say", and "You surely will not die!".

My friends - The Spirit of God tells you that the Lord Jesus Christ is there to talk to you! You can hear from Him. Seek and you will find. The Spirit encourages you to have faith. The snake wants you to question that, to not believe in God, to turn you back from seeking the Lord. Oh, there are other things that snake will do if that doesn't work, but that is the first thing the snake tries. And this is explain in the Scriptures!

Click to expand...

Did you say Benny Hinn? Welcome to my ignore list.

Wordkeeper said:

Did you say Benny Hinn? Welcome to my ignore list.

Click to expand...

"Ignore list"?

The Lord once told me, "Karl, should people list to a person before condemning them to death."

In Proverbs we see Solomon start of with something interesting.

Prov 1:2 To know wisdom and instruction, To discern the sayings of understanding.

If you actually start hearing from the Lord, with practice over time, you start to get an idea of what He is up to and what the saying means. People put Jesus Christ to death!! The reason was that they didn't really take time to listen to Him. Spiritually speaking, you kill someone by "ignoring them". You might notice that if a husband and wife decide to intentionally ignore each other. They have in fact spiritually speaking have killed the other in their heart.

Jesus Christ was always the Word of God. We see in Gen 15 that "the word of the Lord appear to Abram in a vision saying"..." So the Christ appeared to Abram in a vision and spoke to him. Now if Abram had decided to ignore what was said to Him, perhaps through disbelief or "what-ever" then Abram would have spiritually speaking "killed the word of God". Abram didn't, but believed it was the Lord and that was counted to him as righteousness. Abram's belief, express by the concept of not ignoring the Lord, set him up for salvation. That is to say Abram didn't kill the Word of God (the Christ) spiritually, so the Word of God would not kill Abram spiritually.

Now we make judgements and even judgments to intentionally ignore others. If with others, what about with the Lord? It is written that the Spirit testifies, concerning others. So what has He actually told you? I don't need to know what He has told you, but you need to know what He is actually saying to you. Did He tell you to ignore Benny Hinn, and if so why? Did He personally tell you to ignore me, and if so why? You need to talk to the Lord on those things, because as you judge so shall you be judged.

People don't need to listen to me, nor to others, but they do need to listen to the Lord and seek His voice. And this is what I see missing all too often. Jesus said He did not judge, but as He heard He judged. That is: Jesus would not ever had said that He would choose to ignore someone, but He might have ignored someone on the instruction of the Father, so that He didn't act on His judgement, but that He would have done and said only what the Father told Him. Still, people didn't listen to Him, "The Word of God, they ignored Him! And they thought it was ok?

"I believe Gods word...BUT so many denominations interpret it differently. So can heaven be a true guarantee for anyone? And if so, Is everyone that believes In God & that Jesus died for them guaranteed their place in Gods Heaven?"

Click to expand...

Mark 9:22-24 But if You can do anything, have compassion on us & help us.” "'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for one who believes." Immediately the boy’s father cried out, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”

Often in our lives, we believe, yet we have our times, for whatever reasons, that we doubt or do not believe what the Bible says, what the Spirit says & what our Shepherd says because 'His sheep HEAR HIS VOICE & they follow Him. Another they will not follow...' (John 10:1-10)

John 6:43-52 “STOP GRUMBLING AMONG YOURSELVES,” Jesus replied. 'No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him & I WILL raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught BY GOD.’

Everyone who has HEARD the Father & LEARNED FROM HIM--COMES TO ME— not that anyone has seen the Father except the One who is from God; only He has seen the Father.

47Truly, truly (literally, Amen, Amen), I tell you, he who believes HAS ETERNAL LIFE. I AM--the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, YET they died.

50This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it & NOT DIE. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, HE WILL LIVE FOREVER. And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh.”
At this, the Jews began to ARGUE AMONG THEMSELVES...

John 6:63-69 The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken TO YOU are spirit & they are life. However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe & who would betray Him.)

65Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”

Peter’s Confession of Faith
(Matthew 16:13-20; Mark 8:27-30; Luke 9:18-20)

66From that time on, many of His disciples turned back & no longer WALKED WITH Him. 67So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?”

68Simon Peter replied, “Lord, TO WHOM would we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe AND HAVE COME TO KNOW that You are the Holy One of God.”

Just as in Jesus' day, people grumble & argue about what is true, just as denominations do today. Jesus said stop listening to them & arguing--LISTEN TO ME! I AM--the way, the truth, the life.

John 5:24-29 “Truly, truly (there it is again, Amen, Amen) I tell you, whoever HEARS MY WORD & BELIEVES HIM who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE & will NOT be judged but has CROSSED OVER FROM DEATH TO LIFE.

25Amen, Amen I tell you, a time is coming & has NOW COME when the dead will HEAR the voice of the Son of God & those who HEAR WILL LIVE.

26For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son also to have life in Himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

28“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will HEAR HIS VOICE & come out—those who have done WHAT IS GOOD will rise to live & those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

I John 5:9-15 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which He has given concerning His Son.

Whoever believes in the Son of God ACCEPTS THIS TESTIMONY. Whoever does NOT BELIEVE GOD has made him out to be a LIAR, because they have NOT BELIEVED the testimony God has given about His Son.

11And this IS THE TESTIMONY: God HAS GIVEN US eternal life & this life is IN His Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that YOU MAY KNOW that YOU HAVE ETERNAL life.

14This is the CONFIDENCE we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to His will, HE HEARS US. And if we KNOW that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of Him.

One of the key issues about being saved & know that you are saved, is HEARING THE VOICE OF THE LORD. One cannot escape this: all throughout Scripture, those who knew God & were saved, HEARD HIS VOICE & RESPONDED IN FAITH, following & obeying what God said TO THEM.

'So then, faith comes by HEARING & HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.' (Rom 10:17)

'Today is the day of salvation. Today, if you HEAR HIS VOICE, do not harden your hearts, like in that day of rebellion.'

If anyone has not heard the convicting voice of the Spirit, in convicting you of sin & righteousness & judgment, then you will not repent & turn to Christ to save you.

John 16:7-13 But AMEN, AMEN I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I WILL SEND HIM TO YOU.

8When He comes, He will CONVICT the world to be in the wrong because of their sin & about righteousness & judgment.

9About sin, because people do not believe in Me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer & about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth.

If one has heard the convicting voice of the Holy Spirit, bringing about a conviction that we are sinners in rebellion against a Holy God & lost & separate from Him, then you will cry out to the Lord & call upon Him to save you & give you a relationship with Him.

If anyone has done so in sincerity of heart (by the many Scriptures already shared in this thread), they have heard from the Father & have come to His Son to be saved, confessing Him as Lord & trusting in His resurrection to give us eternal life.

Those who do so, now follow Him & hear His voice. A new creation has occurred. The Holy Spirit now indwells this person. The Spirit now speaks & testifies that we are a child of God now & our very spirit cries out, 'ABBA, FATHER!'

How can we know we are saved? We hear the voice of the Triune God! We have eternal life, no longer dead to God, His Voice & His Presence. He lives IN US! We are His temple where He dwells, His Shekinah glory is in us now!

The Holy Spirit is with us forever now; He is the guarantee of our eternal inheritance, guiding us & leading us into all the truth. He also continues to convict us when we sin, so we may confess it & forsake it, obtaining God's mercy & empowered by His grace. (Prov 28:13).

Eph 1:14 ...Who is the guarantee of our inheritance
until we ACQUIRE possession of it, to the praise of His glory...

John 14:16-18 And I will ask the Father & He will give you another Comforter to help you & BE WITH YOU FOREVER—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you KNOW HIM, for He lives with you & will be IN YOU. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

If we do not hear the voice of the Spirit, if we do not hear the voice of the Shepherd of our souls, if we do not hear the voice of our Abba, we are not saved. Those who hear & believe are saved & possess the very life of God & that life is eternal.

Believe the testimony that the Father has given to us concerning His Son & who has the life of God that remains eternally.

Heaven is nothing of a guarantee if there is no Savior there, waiting eagerly for us to come home. Maranatha. Come Lord Jesus. The Spirit says, 'Come.' The bride says, 'Come.' Come join us in the dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Mathetes66 said:

If we do not hear the voice of the Spirit, if we do not hear the voice of the Shepherd of our souls, if we do not hear the voice of our Abba, we are not saved. Those who hear & believe are saved & possess the very life of God & that life is eternal.

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That is what I truly believe. That we need to hear His voice!

While I hear His voice, and for me I usually pick it up in words, I still run across believer's that seem to pick up His voice, but not so much in words. It's like they get a feeling that He is talking to them. I understand that too, because He often catches me that way. That is: I suddenly pick up something that does seem like it is my thought. I then consider it and often determine correctly that it was Him trying to get my attention. At that point I usually ask Him, "Jesus Christ, did you say …." At that point I usually pick Him up in words confirming that it was from Him.

Anyway, I guess I am saying that not all believers tend to hear Him with the same clarity, which I guess is ok. Yet I also think that clarity can get better the more we practice hearing from Him. That is to say - salvation is not the only reason to hear from Him. From His voice come wisdom, knowledge, and understanding also, which we should want.