The young are regarded as the most tolerant generation. That's why results of this LGBTQ survey are

Contenders Edge said:

It takes more than just mere lip service or a profession of faith to be saved. Our acceptance of Jesus and our trust in Him for our salvation must be done in sincerity and the evidence of that sincerity is manifested by a transformed life.

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So you are promoter of "Salvation by Works" then?

Faith alone is not enough?

and I'm still curious HOW you believe God renders a HARSHER Judgment upon certain unrepentant sinners over others, as you claimed?

Can you demonstrate this notion from scripture?
Or is it just a Hunch that makes you feel good thinking about and wishing for?

I have observed that a lot of the conservative Christians who willingly support Trump (while insisting that he shouldn't be judged for his sins and that "his sins are between him and God") are more than willing to condemn homosexuals for their sexual sin and repeatedly rant against homosexuality.

And yet they don't seem to have the slightest hint of a moral conflict concerning him being a twice divorced adulterous philander, who is in his third marriage to his former mistress, who fathered five children with three different women, who had an affair with a inappropriate content star and paid her off to silence her, who bragged about watching young girls getting undressed during beauty pageants, and who bragged about sexually groping multiple women. The duplicity of it all is off the charts because conservative Christians have spent years condemning former President Bill Clinton for his sexual deviant behavior and sexual scandals. They never called his sexual deviant behavior toward woman and his adulterous philandering 'locker room banter' or ever insisted that he shouldn't be judged for his sins or that his sins were between him and God. They never defended him or made excuses for his immoral behavior.

It's honestly not surprising that there have been news articles like "Evangelical convictions for sell," "the great Evangelical compromise," "Evangelicals abandon their principles" and articles insinuating that evangelicals have sold their soul to Trump or calling the evangelical faith "Toxic Christianity."

Long story short, all of the articles (and several other articles) I mentioned all mock the faith and witness of the evangelicals who support Trump. It's no wonder that these Christians have seemingly lost all credibility in the eyes of a lot of people to preach against sin or to even preach about morality.

IN OTHER WORDS, THOSE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES.

LaBèlla said:

Shiloh, I’m not an evangelical Christian but I raised the weight issue with a member in the past. It never comes up and I’m at a loss how it’s ignored in light of the increasing health dilemmas we’re facing. I’ve attended three well-known churches and over the period of time of my membership the subject was never raised.

While I understand the issues surrounding abortion and homosexuality the discussions far exceed other prohibitions the bible addresses. Call it a fixation, bias, what have you. It’s hard to excuse nonetheless.

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Thank you for your response, LaBèlla.

Admittedly, I did kind of go off on them a bit in my previous post.

Shiloh Raven said:

I have observed that a lot of the conservative Christians who willingly support Trump (while insisting that he shouldn't be judged for his sins and that "his sins are between him and God") are more than willing to condemn homosexuals for their sexual sin and repeatedly rant against homosexuality.

And yet they don't seem to have the slightest hint of a moral conflict concerning him being a twice divorced adulterous philander, who is in his third marriage to his former mistress, who fathered five children with three different women, who had an affair with a inappropriate content star and paid her off to silence her, who bragged about watching teenage girls getting undressed during beauty pageants, and who bragged about sexually groping multiple women.

The hypocrisy of it all is off the charts because conservative Christians have spent years publicly condemning Bill Clinton for his sexual deviant behavior and sexual scandals. They never once called his sexual deviant behavior toward woman and his adulterous philandering 'locker room banter' or ever insisted that he shouldn't be judged for his sins or that his sins were between him and God. They never defended him or made any kind of excuses for his sexually immoral behavior.

As I said before, it's not surprising that there have been news articles like "Evangelical convictions for sell," "the great Evangelical compromise," "Evangelicals abandon their principles" and articles insinuating that evangelicals have sold their soul to Trump or calling the evangelical faith "Toxic Christianity." Long story short, all of these articles (and several other articles) all openly question and mock the faith and witness of the evangelicals who support Trump. It's also no wonder that these Christians have seemingly lost all credibility in the eyes of non-Christians and Christians alike to preach against sin or to even talk about morality in the first place.

IN OTHER WORDS, THOSE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES.

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I have an uneasy feeling that this whole Jeffrey Epstein connection just might be the tip of the iceberg that these guys will do anything to stop from being disclosed... It just might be why we aren't seeing Trumps tax returns and why so many of his associates are willing to go to jail to prevent the truth from coming out..
If it were to come out that DJT is involved in an international Child Sex trafficking ring at it's most upper echelons, using Maralago as a home base for bringing young girls and boys in from around the world to be traded and sold as sex slaves, even the staunchest Christian trump supporter will be forced to turn away...

Stay tuned...

parousia70 said:

I have a feeling this whole Jeffrey Epstein connection just might be the tip of the iceberg that these guys will do anything to stop from being disclosed... It just might be why we aren't seeing Trumps tax returns and why so many of his associates are willing to go to jail to prevent the truth from coming out..
If it were to come out that DJT has been involved in an international Child Sex trafficking ring at it's most upper echelons, using Maralago as a home base from bringing young girls and boys in to be traded and sold as sex slaves, even the staunchest Christian trump supporter will be forced to turn away...

Stay tuned...

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I honestly don't know if many of his staunch supporters would turn away even if news like that did come out about him. I mean, he bragged about sexually groping multiple women, bragged about watching young teenage girls getting undressed, had an affair with a inappropriate content star and then paid her off to silence her, and joked about dating his daughter, Ivanka, if she wasn't his daughter. And even after all of that and everything else disgusting or vicious he has said and done since his presidential campaign, his loyal supporters still fervently defend him with a passion. He once said he has a great relationship with the Evangelicals and he said, “They say I have the most loyal people, where I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It's like incredible." (Source: Donald Trump: They say I could ‘shoot somebody’ and still have support)

Shiloh Raven said:

I honestly don't know if many of his staunch supporters would turn away even if news like that did come out about him. I mean, he bragged about sexually groping multiple women, bragged about watching young teenage girls getting undressed, had an affair with a inappropriate content star and then paid her off to silence her, and joked about dating his daughter, Ivanka, if she wasn't his daughter. And even after all of that and everything else disgusting or vicious he has said and done since his presidential campaign, his loyal supporters still fervently defend him with a passion. He once said he has a great relationship with the Evangelicals and he said, “They say I have the most loyal people, where I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It's like incredible." (Source: Donald Trump: They say I could ‘shoot somebody’ and still have support)

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Well, there is that... but it would shave his support at least in half.... and half of 30% is well... 15%

There are 15% of people who will follow anyone for any reason...
You'll never win them over, probably because they are just a guilty themselves.

There will, undoubtedly, be a group of Adult US Citizens who will choose to blame a kidnapped, brainwashed child for being raped over the rapist himself.

My old pastor once said "being gay isn't a sin but acting out on your sexuality is if it's not Christ honoring" and homosexuality isn't as it goes against God's design. There are gay Christians who love Christ and live honoring lives without sex. Those who deliberately do have sex and don't try to fight show evidence that Christ is not in them. They are deliberately sinning and it doesn't seem to bother them. While it's certainly possible, I find it hard to believe one is a "Christian" if they display no effort to fight sin or accept what they are doing is a sin in the first place.

Shiloh Raven said:

Thank you for your response, LaBèlla.

Admittedly, I did kind of go off on them a bit in my previous post.

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You’re welcome Shiloh.

I think what’s absent in this discussion on a wider basis are people with firsthand experience with challenging subjects and those anointed to minister to these groups. Most of these arguments are based on principles and that doesn’t sway hearts or souls.

I recall a young pastor who held weekly trips for prayer walking. He began with the third most violent area in the city. Rest assured, his tattoos didn’t change the fact he stood out like a sore thumb. But he wasn’t daunted. He was called to urban ministry.

You have to know your limitations and understand there are persons better suited for some areas of ministry than others. Equipping matters and when we’re ill prepared to address difficult subjects we cause more harm than good.

Gifting helps us navigate the challenges and carry God’s message throughout. Passion (which hails from the flesh) is not as discriminating and is often laden with biases the individual doesn’t see.

parousia70 said:

So you agree at the unrepentant

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Sad that you try to put words in my mouth that I agree with. Homosexuality is condemned most severely in the Bible. Only blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is worst. Homosexuality is specifically called out as a reason people won't go to heaven. It is as simple at that.

Efforts of pretending moral equivalence are pointless.

parousia70 said:

So you are promoter of "Salvation by Works" then?

Faith alone is not enough?

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Lip service is not enough. You are saved by faith but faith is never alone. Love is not just an emotion but an action. James says faith without works is dead. Imagine a guy saying 'I love my wife very much.' Not too many would believe him if he did absolutely nothing for her.

“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.
Matthew 7:12

parousia70 said:

I'm still curious HOW you believe God renders a HARSHER Judgment upon certain unrepentant sinners over others, as you claimed?

Can you demonstrate this notion from scripture?

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Never read and understood Corinthians huh?
1 Corinthians 3:12-15 The Voice (VOICE)
12 As others build on the foundation (whether with gold, silver, gemstones, wood, hay, or straw), 13 the quality of each person’s work will be revealed in time as it is tested by fire. 14 If a man’s work stands the test of fire, he will be rewarded. 15 If a man’s work is consumed by the fire, his reward will be lost but he will be spared, rescued from the fire.

Wrangler said:

Sad that you try to put words in my mouth that I agree with. Homosexuality is condemned most severely in the Bible. Only blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is worst. Homosexuality is specifically called out as a reason people won't go to heaven. It is as simple at that.

Efforts of pretending moral equivalence are pointless.

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Still waiting for you (or anyone) to demonstrate how God Judges the Sin of unrepentant Homosexuality more Harshly than the sin of Unrepentant Rape.

parousia70 said:

That’s cute.
You’re new here, Right?

Stick with me, kid..
You’ll find out soon enough just how much heat this kitchen puts out.

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I’ve already experienced my share of heat, especially on this thread and I do plan on going the distance. Imagine what it must be like out there in a setting where there is little to no restraint on what is written and posted and where there are no referees or moderators to routinely keep in check what is written and posted. Imagine the level of hostility that must take place in a setting unrestrained.

If you happen to have an external account, you probably know what that is like. But if not, then don't get too proud of yourself. As heated as you may have seen things get here, even you ain't seen nothing yet, but that is only if you have not ever had any kind of an external social media account (i.e., facebook, twitter) or ran a website or blogsite of your own.

Wrangler said:

Never read and understood Corinthians huh?
1 Corinthians 3:12-15 The Voice (VOICE)
12 As others build on the foundation (whether with gold, silver, gemstones, wood, hay, or straw), 13 the quality of each person’s work will be revealed in time as it is tested by fire. 14 If a man’s work stands the test of fire, he will be rewarded. 15 If a man’s work is consumed by the fire, his reward will be lost but he will be spared, rescued from the fire.

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If I understand the way you're quoting this passage, I think it means the opposite of what you intend. The man whose work is consumed is still saved.

To 1 Cor 6:9 you need to join Gal 5:19-21. Both use the same wording. Are these really all mortal sins? Does Paul contradict Jesus then? The context in 1 Cor 6 is really the church. Apparently the church has been boasting that it is beyond the concept of sin. Paul is telling them that that's not true. If they don't deal with sin, they are not going to embody the Kingdom of God. That is, I think he's speaking of the Kingdom as a present reality, as Jesus often did, and what we need to do to make it real among us.

Paul uses the term Kingdom of God sparingly. Three are in the sin lists, 1 Cor 6:9. Gal 5:19. and Eph 5:5. The others are Rom 14:17, 1 Cor 4:20, 2 Thes 1:5, Col 4:11, and 1 Cor 15:50. Of them, all but 1 Cor 15:50 are pretty clearly about the Kingdom as present. 1 Cor 15:50 is probably about the future.

parousia70 said:

Rather, I think I’ll ask you HOW God Judges some sins more harshly than others?

What fate does the unrepentant Homosexual suffer that the unrepentant Glutton (or Rapist) does not, due to God’s “harshness” distinction in rendering His Judgement?

Please be as specific as possible.

And go ahead and review my post #132 in This thread for the Biblical understanding of the role our sins play in God’s Judgement of us today.
​

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The scriptures declare that the saints will receive a varying degree of rewards (some more so than others. (1 Cor. 3:12-15) We do not know what all the things in store for us will be, we just know what the scriptures tell us. Likewise, there are a number of different scriptures that indicate strongly that there will be varying degrees of punishment for the unrepentant:


1. Matthew 10:15

2. Matthew 11:21-24

3. Mark. 6:11

4. Luke 10:12-14

5. Luke 12:47-48

6. Matthew 18:7

7. John 19:11



When sin entered into the world, the serpent who tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit who then in turn led Adam to eat of it, was given the harshest judgment for causing their transgression. (Gen. 3)

When our Lord gave the law through Moses, He demanded punishment for each transgression, but He did not assign the same kind of punishment to each kind of sin. There were punishments for some transgressions that were more severe than the punishments assigned for others.

And lastly, instead of being killed before being cast into Hell, the Anti-Christ and his false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire when Christ returns. (Rev. 19 ) The magnitude of the evil of the Anti-Christ must be so great that even death is not a sufficient enough punishment for him whereas death normally comes before eternal damnation for the unbelieving.

What those different punishments will entail in that day of judgment, we do not know. The Bible does not tell us. All we know is what the scriptures tell us and the scriptures I’ve already cited do indicate varying degrees of punishment and they are enough to imply that though God does punish all sin, there are sins that receive a harsher judgment than others.

So, while we may not know what degree of punishment is given out for each sin in eternity, there is ample evidence that greater degrees of sin and wickedness receive harsher judgment yet eternal torment of varying degrees will be the result for all sin. The question remains as to whether or not you are willing to be content with what the Bible tells us. I am willing to remain content with what it already does reveal.

HOW each sin is punished is not as important as WHY not all sins receive the same degree of punishment.

The best answer I can give to that is because every sin has varying degrees of consequences and the sins that have the farthest reaching consequences and bring the most grief, suffering, and misery are the ones that receive the greatest punishment.

parousia70 said:

It appears you have misunderstood my point.
A woman is far Less likely to have to fend off advances form a lesbian than she is from a heterosexual man.

I recommend you solicit all the women you can to chime in on whether or not they find that to be true.

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If you mean that in the sense that a lesbian woman is not as likely to impose herself upon a heterosexual woman as heterosexual man might, then I would not disagree with you. And if that was your intended meaning, then I appreciate your clarification.

As for soliciting the women participating on this forum and especially on this thread on that particular matter, I think I will wait around a while for their response and if no adequate amount of opinion and insights are issues, then I might possibly consider it, but if your curiosity on their thoughts surpasses even mine, you can solicit them for their opinions if you want to.

parousia70 said:

So you are promoter of "Salvation by Works" then?

Faith alone is not enough?

and I'm still curious HOW you believe God renders a HARSHER Judgment upon certain unrepentant sinners over others, as you claimed?

Can you demonstrate this notion from scripture?
Or is it just a Hunch that makes you feel good thinking about and wishing for?

Click to expand...

It is not just me that you have accused of promoting salvation by works. You have also accused the Apostle Paul of the same (Rom. 6:1-2, 11-13, Heb. 10:26) and the Apostle James. (Jas. 2:4-26) when it was simply stated that the sincerity of a person’s professed faith is manifested by their actions, conduct, way of life, what they say, what doctrine they adhere to, and where their priorities and interests are directed.

It all comes down to this: How do you treat the grace of God? Do you treat as a permission slip to live in sin as many professors of the faith do, or do you demonstrate a gratitude and gratefulness for that grace received by making sure that you honor God in everything that you do, in every part of your life and commit yourself to walking in His truth alone and nothing more?

As to your other challenges, I already addressed them in the other response posts you wrote, three of which pertained to one single post I wrote. I understand if you have to divide your responses to each post into separate posts due to space limitations (no more than 18,000 characters; I’ve run into that problem too) but if you know that your response a post I write is not going to take up that much space, you might get answers from me a lot sooner if you, whenever possible, keep what you have to say confined to the one post you intend as a response to a post I write.

parousia70 said:

Still waiting for you (or anyone) to demonstrate how God Judges the Sin of unrepentant Homosexuality more Harshly than the sin of Unrepentant Rape.

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Appeal to Strawman. I've already demonstrated it. You are just in denial.

It's not that the punishment is more severe, the sin is especially called out. You are desperate to draw moral equivalence where there is none.

Contenders Edge said:

And perhaps even more if we look up the word “abomination” which LGBT behavior is in the sight of God.

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Let's see...
Eating bacon is an abomination.
Eating catfish is an abomination.
Eating shrimp is an abomination.
Any form of illicit sex, including adultery rape, homosexual behavior, etc. are equally abominations.
Any form of dishonesty is an abomination (Proverbs 12:22)
Rigged weights or scales are an abomination.
Charging interest on a loan is an abomination

Among others. So pretty much all sins. Do you see why Jesus spent a lot of time, denouncing cruelty, dishonesty, hypocrisy, and pride, while He never even mentioned homosexuality?

It's a serious sin, but He was concerned with sins that were more likely to drag one down to hell.

We're all sinners, and we've all done things that are abominations in His eyes. His Church isn't for those without sin; it's for sinners who are trying to do better.

The Barbarian said:

It's a serious sin, but He was concerned with sins that were more likely to drag one down to hell.

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LOL Why would Jesus have to repeat what has already been stated in Scripture? It was St Paul that specifically was concerned with sins that were more likely to drag one down to hell, which included homosexuality.

Wrangler said:

LOL Why would Jesus have to repeat what has already been stated in Scripture?

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All the sins Jesus warned us against were already stated in scripture. So why did he chose the ones he did, and ignore homosexuality?

The answer is obvious to those who aren't determined not to see.