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Boy will he be embarassed when it comes later. I think we'll be like star trek by then and travel the stars?
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Second coming not on time?
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Boy will he be embarassed when it comes later. I think we'll be like star trek by then and travel the stars?
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What are the tribulation years? And what is the tribulation of those years?
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Like we'll lose faith in Jesus at some time and not expect him at all?
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Thanks for clarifying. I got it backwards somehow. I read and sometimes I don't understand. And that's why I ask I suppose.
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claninja
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In regards to Matthew 24:3,34 in the OP:
Matthew 24:3 While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”
It's important to note that the disciple's generation did experience famine, pestilence, persecution, false prophets, Jerusalem being surrounded by armies and the temple being destroyed, as listed in the olivet discourse
When the disciples would see all these things, then they would know Christ's coming was near, right at the door.
Matthew 24:33 also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door
Notice James states the Lord's coming is at hand. He even states the Judge is "standing", which is a present tense verb, at the door. James must have been seeing the signs of the olivet discourse to write this statement:
James 5:8-9 You too, be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is at hand. Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door!
Peter believed the end was at hand
1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is at hand
Paul believed they were living at the END OF THE AGE
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come
John believed it was the last hour
1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour
Why did all these disciples believe this? Because Jesus told them so:
Matthew 24:34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
In regards to matthew 26:64 in the OP:
Jesus tells Caiaphus that "from now" he would see the son of man sitting (present tense verb) at the right hand and coming (present tense verb) on the clouds of heaven.
Matthew 26:64 You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”g
We should look at Daniel 7 to help with the interpretation. In Daniel 7, which direction is the son of man coming with the clouds? To the Father (Ancient of Days).
Daniel 7:13-14 In my vision in the night I continued to watch: And I saw One like a Son of Man
coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence. And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship,
Jesus fulfilled Daniel 7:13-14 when he came to the father on the clouds of heaven to receive dominion, glory, and a kingship.
Ephesians 1:20-21 which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion
Luke 24:26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?”
Luke 19:12 So He said, “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to lay claim to his kingship and then return
**Thus we can see Matthew 26:64 fulfilled at Jesus' ascension: coming on the clouds of heaven and sitting at the right hand of the father.
There are no scriptures that state Jesus "will come with the clouds", the "will come" being future tense. There are only scriptures that state Jesus "is coming on the clouds". The is coming is present tense, just as the "is sitting as the right hand" is present tense.
Notice in revelation Jesus "is coming" (present tense verb) but what is future tense is that every eye "will see" him.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming (present tense) with the clouds, and every eye will see (future tense) Him
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so if I understand you see that Jesus is in a state of coming because scripture only uses present tesne verbs like "I am coming"? I will push back a bit on this, Jesus ascended to heaven into the clouds in Acts 1:9-11 and in v11 the angels say "Jesus ... will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." the verb translated as "will come" used in context is eleusetai (G2064) and it is in the future tense and indicative mood, meaning it is in the unknowable future. We see this again in 1 Thes 4:16 where it describes the coming of Jesus as "will descend" and the verb in context is katabesetai (G2597) and again this is the future tense and indicative mood, so the unknowable future.
The end of Revelations is often pointed out Jesus says "I am coming soon" but the word translated as "soon" is tachy (G5035) which is litterally "fast" and we get some medical words from this word like tachycardia which means "fast-heart" So is Jesus coming soon or is he coming fast?
Well it is an adverb so it describes the verb being used "I am coming" which in context is erchomai (G2064). This is in the present tense and indicative mood but you will notice it is the same strongs number as Acts 1:11 because it is the same word just in different context. So Acts says essentially "will come" and Revelations says "is coming [tachy]".
Is Christ coming right now or is he coming soon? Translations seem to be split on this with a cursory look it seems like it's 50-50 between quickly and soon, with the more dynamic translations bending towards soon and more literal translations bending towards quickly. In parable of the 10 virgins the bridegroom's coming is said "to spend or take time, to delay" this is just as ambiguous because either Christ is delaying his coming or he is taking his time while he is coming (but taking his time isn't really fast). The Latin vulgate says "venio velociter" (velociter is the adverb in question and yes it's where our word from velocidy comes from). so it doesn't help much either as it too is ambiguous.
The problem with ancient languages is that they are far more concrete than modern languages like English which is extremely abstract. Concepts of "soon" can fit in a "fast" word and the context can reveal it's more nuanced meaning. if a phrase said "quickly afterwards" like in Mark 9:39 the concept is in fact "soon". The thing is the context in Revelations it says first these things must happen (v6) "in quickness" (tachei G5034) which is the noun version of tachy. So these things must happen in quickness "and behold I am coming quickly..." There certainly is a sense that the things (revelations) must happen first then Christ is coming which is more "soon after..." or "quickly after..." the revelations. The context surrounding the quickly is in relation to not the duration of his coming but the time it takes Christ to respond which is very agreeably "quickly"
Scripture does show future tense verbs for the coming of Christ and Revelations doesn't reject it as his coming is relative to the aforementioned revelations. This was of course base on when the text was written but since 2000 years is neither fast nor soon in our human perspectives it's hard to defend either of these, but just that it is God's timing, not ours. The parable of the 10 virgins does sort of hint of an expectation of quickness but it didn't work out that way and it took a lot longer than expected.
What I'm interested in knowing is what is the difference between a "coming Christ", if that is in fact what you mean, versus a "coming soon Christ"?
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claninja
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I'm specifically talking about the term "coming with the clouds". When Jesus uses the term "coming with/on the clouds" he is obviously referencing Daniel 7.
Is the "coming with the clouds" in Daniel 7 associated with Christ returning to earth or with Christ going to heaven? or Both?
Daniel 7:13-14 In my vision in the night I continued to watch: And I saw One like a Son of Man
coming with the clouds of heaven and He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence. And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship, so that every people, nation, and language should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Christ was given dominion when he died and was raised to be seated at the right hand in heaven
Ephesians 1:20-21 which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come.
Christ entered glory after he suffered and was raised from the dead
Luke 24:26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?”
Christ was to go away to a distant country and claim his kingship then return.
Luke 19:12 So He said, “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to lay claim to his kingship and then return.
**Thus, we can definitely see that Daniel 7:13-14 was fulfilled when Christ sat down at the right hand of the Father.
Jesus tells Caiaphas that "from now on" you will see (future tense) the son of man sitting (present tense) at the right and coming (present tense) on the clouds of heaven.
Matthew 26:64 You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One AND coming on the clouds of heaven.”g
We know that Jesus sitting at the right hand is a present reality, so why wouldn't Jesus coming on the clouds be a present reality?
I find it very interesting that John records Jesus "is coming" (present tense), but then puts every eye will see (future tense).
Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him
How did Jesus go into heaven? the disciples never saw Jesus enter heaven because a cloud took him out of their sight. So how did Jesus enter heaven? In a cloud, out of sight. How will Jesus return from heaven? If it is in the same manner, it would be: in a cloud, out of sight.
Acts 1:9-11 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”
Paul's language agrees with the angel from Acts 1, for it is IN the clouds IN the air where we meet the Lord.
1 thessalonians 4:17 After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them IN the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
When Jesus harvests the earth he is seated on a cloud.
Revelation 14:14-15
And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man,c with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. Then another angel came out of the temple, crying out in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” So the One seated on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
And when Jesus ascends he is with the clouds
Acts 1:9 After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight
Daniel 7:13-14 In my vision in the night I continued to watch: And I saw One like a Son of Man
coming with the clouds of heaven and He approached the Ancient of Days
So I would argue the "coming on the clouds" is a present reality that began when Christ was presented before the Father.
I agree with this and think it's a fair argument. When Christ does come, it will be quickly. and it was definitely future from when the book was written.
But this doesn't address the "time is near"
Revelation 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near.
When Daniel is given a vision about Greece, Persia, and 2300 evenings and mornings, he is told to seal up the vision for it is "many days from now". There are typically 2 interpretations of this: 1.) Daniel 8 is about Antiochus Epiphanes or 2.) it's about the future end times antichrist.
If number 1 is the correct interpretation, then the "many days from now" is around ~350-400 years. If number 2 is correct, then the interpretation of the "many days from now" is +2500 years. Regardless if it is 350-400 years or +2500 years, Daniel is told to seal up the vision because it was for a distant future.
Daniel 8:26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been spoken is true. Now you must seal up the vision, for it concerns many days from now.”
clanin
Revelation 22:10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of prophecy in this book, because the time is near.
However, John is told NOT to seal up the vision for the time is near. If the number 1 interpretation is right on Daniel 8, then the "time is near" in revelation should be less then 350-400 years. If the number 2 interpretation is right on Daniel 8, then it really doesn't make sense that +2500 years (Daniel's time) is many days from now, but +2000 (John's time) years is near.
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In my treatise, titled "What Did Jesus Really Mean?" (a non-traditional interpretation of Jesus and his sayings, pdf available for free download here), I address this issue by saying:
"Jesus’ prescient depiction of the next such ‘coming’ event, wherein those who are prepared to do so soulfully ‘wake up’ to the Whole Truth and therefore enter into and thereafter continue to consciously live in communion with the Totality of Life while others ‘fall’ by the wayside and get recyled (so to speak), to wit: “As the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. … they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:27 30), does not mean that he will then literally flash across the sky and be seen everywhere as he ‘gloriously’ orbits the planet in person. People who are emotionally invested in worshiping Jesus himself as a super-magical genie kind of God will undoubtedly regard the explanation that follows as being unacceptably heretical, but assuming you are not one such – why would you still be engaged in exploring this thesis otherwise? – let me submit that the above-quoted statement only makes real sense if one interprets it metaphorically, with “heaven” being understood as referencing the realm of consciousness and (so) “the clouds” as referencing the particularities of ideological constellations, or philosophies, within it.
“The Son of man” alludes to the corpus of human apprehension, or ‘knowing’ (often spoken of as Cosmic Consciousness) pertaining to Life as a Whole; that is, to the entirety of the living system composed by and of our creative Source (i.e. God, ‘the Father’), All That Is (i.e., The Entity of Creation, ‘the Son’, a/k/a Christ), and everyone’s relationally interfused interaction(s) therewith and therein, as postulated and discussed hitherto herein. The “lightning” that shines “out of the east … even unto the west” analogically dramatizes the way in which powerfully functional thoughts, i.e. ‘knowings’, are psychically transmitted and received and (so) spread throughout our noosphere. The overall implication, of course, being that consciousness of what the words “I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you” (John 14:20) super-succinctly signify will illuminatingly permeate the thinking of holistically inclined people wherever they may be located all over the world.
...
Many speak of such prophesied ‘happening’, wherein those who have developed to the point where they are ‘ripe’ in said regard become aware of the confluence of all Life and consequently choose to participate in Its Flow by whole-mind-n-heart-edly enjoying and devoting themselves to enriching and augmenting Its Love and Joy process, as the ‘Second Coming’ (of Christ, i.e. Cosmic-‘I’dentity, Consciousness), which they project as being yet to happen. Connoisseurs of the history of ideas and cultural evolution, however, recognize that this, slowly evolving at first but now exponentially rapidly accelerating, phenomenon has been underway for quite a while now, though the visibility of such trend is often clouded by the fact that the greater part of our population, even of those who proclaim themselves to be ‘Christians’, has not been and still isn’t spiritually in synch with it. I suggest keeping “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few [relatively speaking] there be that find it.” (Matthew 7:13) in mind when viewing and contemplating the lay of the land in this regard."
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Except here:
Heb_9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Appearing or coming a second time is the same thing. Christ appeared/came the first time when he was conceived, the second time is at the 7th trump. He comes here only twice thus the second coming is biblically based.
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Luke 17 has obviously not happened yet. Wicked evil people are still here, they have not yet been removed. And of interest is, the days before He returns, you will long to see His Day and you wont see it.
This is due to the evil generation in which you live.
22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
This is due to the evil generation in which you live.
22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
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1213
Disciple of Jesus
Most assuredly I tell you, there are some standing here who will in no way taste of death, until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Matt. 16:28
I think that came true in:
After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. Behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them talking with him.
Matt. 17
And about Matthew 24:34, I think it is possible that the things that should have happened, have happened.
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Yeah I'm open to that. I consider myself still confused about the second coming.
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Appearing the second time is the same meaning as second coming so yes it's scriptural.
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Here it is again:
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Coming once is the first coming. Coming again is the second coming.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Coming once is the first coming. Coming again is the second coming.
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Your confused becasue you accepted a teaching called the "second coming" long befroe you became familiar enough with the scripture to see that the "coming of the Lord" has happened on multiple occasions throughout the OT. It is not a NT doctrine. It is an OT doctrine and an OT experience. Now that the coming of the Lord, which are great days of judgment and calamity that the Lord physically comes down to earth to oversee continues they always have. Your confused. Confused that is, that Jesus would say to whom and when he was coming. (Just like he did in the OT.)
The only difference between his coming in the OT in great days of judgment and to fulfill promise is: IN the OT he physically came to earth as Jehovah the Word. Today he comes as the descendant of Abraham, the messiah. The son of David etc etc. He was not those things until he left heaven and became a man.
Jesus told many of the people he was speaking to, including the apostle John, that they would live long enough to see the coming of the Lord? Here Matthew, Mark and Luke all record the same scene when Jesus tells a group of his disciples that some of them will live long enough to see his coming.
Matthew16: 27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28: TRULY I SAY TO YOU. THERE ARE SOME STANDING HERE, WHICH SHALL NOT TASTE OF DEATH, TILL THEY SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN HIS KINGDOM.
Mark 8:38 Whoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. 9:1 And he said to them. TRULY i SAY TO YOU. THERE BE SOME OF THEM THAT STAND HERE, WHICH SHALL NOT TASTE OF DEATH, TILL THEY HAVE SEEN THE KINGDOM OF GOD COME WITH POWER.
Luke 9:26 For whoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. 27 BUT I TELL YOU OF A TRUTH. THERE BE SOME STANDING HERE, WHICH SHALL NOT TASTE OF DEATH, TILL THEY SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Here Jesus tells John that he will live long enough to see his coming but tells Peter he will not.
John 21:18. (Jesus speaking to Peter) Truly, Truly, I say to you, When you were young, you dressed yourself, and walked where ever you desired: but when your old, you will stretch forth your hands, and another will dress you, and carry you where you do not want. 19. This he spoke, signifying by what death he (Peter) should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he said to him, Follow me. 20. Then Peter, turning around, seeing the disciple whom Jesus loved (John) following...... 21. Peter seeing him said to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22. Jesus answers him, IF I WILL THAT HE REMAIN TILL I COME, what is that to you? Follow me. 23. Then this saying abroad went out among the brothers, that this disciple (John) should not die: yet Jesus did not say to him, He shall not die; BUT IF I WILL THAT HE REMAIN TILL I COME, what is that to you?
Then Jesus tells the High Priest and the other religious leaders of Israel that some of them would live long enough to see his coming.
Mark 14:61 ...Again the high priest asked him, Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62. And Jesus said, I am: AND YOU WILL SEE THE SON OF MAN SITTING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER AND COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.
Then of course there is Jesus's prophecy about the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem. It is very important to note that the only place in his whole prophecy that he used the emphasis "truly truly I say to you;" to command their attention, and ours, was concerning when this prophecy would come to pass.
Matthew 24:32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is close: 33. So likewise, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34, IN TRUTH IS SAY TO YOU, THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS, TILL ALL THESE THINGS BE FULFILLED. 35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36. But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mark 13:28. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near: 29. So in like manner, when you shall see these things come to pass, know that it is close, even at the doors. 30. IN TRUTH I SAY TO YOU, THAT THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS, TILL ALL THESE THINGS BE DONE. 31. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32. But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Luke 21:29. And he spoke to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30. When they now shoot forth, you see and know of your own selves that summer is now close at hand. 31. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know that the kingdom of God is close at hand. 32. IN TRUTH I SAY TO YOU. THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS AWAY, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. 33. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
This is all in exact accordance with Daniels prophecy that when the messiah comes the city and the sanctuary would be destroyed. In fact the destruction of the temple and the city was one of the major signs that Jesus was indeed the messiah. Just like his death and resurrection were.
Daniel chapter 9 verses 25-27. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: AND THE PEOPLE OF THE PRINCE THAT SHALL COME SHALL DESTROY THE CITY AND THE SANCTUARY, and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolation's are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
So why do so many Christians and pastors not pay any attention to all these scriptures that say when Jesus would come and instead place it in our future? Mostly because they have no incentive to notice them. They accepted a teaching called the "second coming" as gospel long before they became familiar enough with the scripture to observe anything contrary to it. In the Greek, the phrase second coming doesn't even occur one time in the entire New Testament. The acceptance of these pop culture end time teachings has quite naturally caused a spiritual and intellectual laziness around the subject of the coming of the Lord. Yet the scripture is replete with these great days of judgment where the Lord literally and physically came to earth to oversee great days of judgment or calamity. This isn't the only one the New Testament prophesied either. There are a dozen chapters of end time prophecy about the great judgments of the end of the age of the four Gentile empires in the OT and book of Revelation.
Every single sentence of Jesus's prophecy in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 came to pass in the first century. You'll not find a more complete account in a more easy to read format like the article linked below. Please take the time to read it. There is extremely good news about our future, not apocalyptic news.
http://wordservice.org/Bible%20Basics/bb3000.htm
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Your confused becasue you accepted a teaching called the "second coming" long befroe you became familiar enough with the scripture to see that the "coming of the Lord" has happened on multiple occasions throughout the OT. It is not a NT doctrine. It is an OT doctrine and an OT experience. Now that the coming of the Lord, which are great days of judgment and calamity that the Lord physically comes down to earth to oversee continues they always have. Your confused. Confused that is, that Jesus would say to whom and when he was coming. (Just like he did in the OT.)
The only difference between his coming in the OT in great days of judgment and to fulfill promise is: IN the OT he physically came to earth as Jehovah the Word. Today he comes as the descendant of Abraham, the messiah. The son of David etc etc. He was not those things until he left heaven and became a man.
Jesus told many of the people he was speaking to, including the apostle John, that they would live long enough to see the coming of the Lord? Here Matthew, Mark and Luke all record the same scene when Jesus tells a group of his disciples that some of them will live long enough to see his coming.
Matthew16: 27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28: TRULY I SAY TO YOU. THERE ARE SOME STANDING HERE, WHICH SHALL NOT TASTE OF DEATH, TILL THEY SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN HIS KINGDOM.
Mark 8:38 Whoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. 9:1 And he said to them. TRULY i SAY TO YOU. THERE BE SOME OF THEM THAT STAND HERE, WHICH SHALL NOT TASTE OF DEATH, TILL THEY HAVE SEEN THE KINGDOM OF GOD COME WITH POWER.
Luke 9:26 For whoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. 27 BUT I TELL YOU OF A TRUTH. THERE BE SOME STANDING HERE, WHICH SHALL NOT TASTE OF DEATH, TILL THEY SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Here Jesus tells John that he will live long enough to see his coming but tells Peter he will not.
John 21:18. (Jesus speaking to Peter) Truly, Truly, I say to you, When you were young, you dressed yourself, and walked where ever you desired: but when your old, you will stretch forth your hands, and another will dress you, and carry you where you do not want. 19. This he spoke, signifying by what death he (Peter) should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he said to him, Follow me. 20. Then Peter, turning around, seeing the disciple whom Jesus loved (John) following...... 21. Peter seeing him said to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22. Jesus answers him, IF I WILL THAT HE REMAIN TILL I COME, what is that to you? Follow me. 23. Then this saying abroad went out among the brothers, that this disciple (John) should not die: yet Jesus did not say to him, He shall not die; BUT IF I WILL THAT HE REMAIN TILL I COME, what is that to you?
Then Jesus tells the High Priest and the other religious leaders of Israel that some of them would live long enough to see his coming.
Mark 14:61 ...Again the high priest asked him, Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62. And Jesus said, I am: AND YOU WILL SEE THE SON OF MAN SITTING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER AND COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.
Then of course there is Jesus's prophecy about the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem. It is very important to note that the only place in his whole prophecy that he used the emphasis "truly truly I say to you;" to command their attention, and ours, was concerning when this prophecy would come to pass.
Matthew 24:32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is close: 33. So likewise, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34, IN TRUTH IS SAY TO YOU, THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS, TILL ALL THESE THINGS BE FULFILLED. 35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36. But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mark 13:28. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near: 29. So in like manner, when you shall see these things come to pass, know that it is close, even at the doors. 30. IN TRUTH I SAY TO YOU, THAT THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS, TILL ALL THESE THINGS BE DONE. 31. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32. But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Luke 21:29. And he spoke to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30. When they now shoot forth, you see and know of your own selves that summer is now close at hand. 31. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know that the kingdom of God is close at hand. 32. IN TRUTH I SAY TO YOU. THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS AWAY, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. 33. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
This is all in exact accordance with Daniels prophecy that when the messiah comes the city and the sanctuary would be destroyed. In fact the destruction of the temple and the city was one of the major signs that Jesus was indeed the messiah. Just like his death and resurrection were.
Daniel chapter 9 verses 25-27. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: AND THE PEOPLE OF THE PRINCE THAT SHALL COME SHALL DESTROY THE CITY AND THE SANCTUARY, and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolation's are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
So why do so many Christians and pastors not pay any attention to all these scriptures that say when Jesus would come and instead place it in our future? Mostly because they have no incentive to notice them. They accepted a teaching called the "second coming" as gospel long before they became familiar enough with the scripture to observe anything contrary to it. In the Greek, the phrase second coming doesn't even occur one time in the entire New Testament. The acceptance of these pop culture end time teachings has quite naturally caused a spiritual and intellectual laziness around the subject of the coming of the Lord. Yet the scripture is replete with these great days of judgment where the Lord literally and physically came to earth to oversee great days of judgment or calamity. This isn't the only one the New Testament prophesied either. There are a dozen chapters of end time prophecy about the great judgments of the end of the age of the four Gentile empires in the OT and book of Revelation.
Every single sentence of Jesus's prophecy in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 came to pass in the first century. You'll not find a more complete account in a more easy to read format like the article linked below. Please take the time to read it. There is extremely good news about our future, not apocalyptic news.
http://wordservice.org/Bible%20Basics/bb3000.htm
Yes that's why I'm confused, because I also believe he came again to the disciples. But there is also in revelation when all shall see him: Revelation 1:7
"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.
So I think multiple things are described?
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The belief all prophesies have all already been fulfilled is called full-preterism. There is a specific board within this board for those who take such a view. I encourage you to go to that board where adherents have liberty to expound upon that view without sanction.
Full-preterism is a minority view but one that has existed since the early church fathers. It was formalized by a Jesuit priest in the late 1500-early 1600s. The more common view is partial preterism and is prominent in Covenant Theology and the Amillennial and Post-millennial positions. However, it should be understood that every Christian is preterist simple because we believe all of the Messianic prophesies of the OT are fulfilled in Jesus; there will be no other fulfillment of those prophesies already fulfilled by Christ.
Let me suggest you check something out for yourself: See if you can find the phrase "Second Coming" anywhere in the Bible.
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