Are we Saved from the Law or are we expected to keep it?

4 "I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.
5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments..."
(2 John 1:4-6).

9 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." (2 John 1:9-11).

16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
(2 Timothy 3:16-17).

To my count so far, there are approximately 450 direct commands in the New Testament. I am still doing the study, and trying to combine any repeat commands I may have missed. Many of these direct commands are not something you would just automatically know after being a born again Christian. I believe many Christians today are unaware of these many commands, and they need to be awakened to seeing them.

In other words, in light of this fact, I believe Hebrews 10:16 is either referring to the foundation of the apostles in the fact that they were forming and obeying the New Testament Scriptures (with Christ being the chief cornerstone) by which we follow the New Testament writings, or it is referring to how the born again New Covenant believer is inclined to desire to want to Love God, and love others (Which are the two greatest commandments). Granted, this is not at the neglect of ignoring the many other New Testament commandments given to us by Jesus and His followers. For these other commands are essential to the core of our loving God, and others in a way that the Lord intended. They are a part of abiding in the doctrine of Christ. For a person can think that loving God is helping stray cats off the street, but that is not really loving God according to God's Word. While one can certainly do that, that is not the focus of our loving God.

Bible Highlighter said:

but that is not really loving God according to God's Word. While one can certainly do that, that is not the focus of our loving God.

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Putting His will before the will of man, the governance of God before the governance of man.

archarios said:

i never get a straight answer about this issue. Even from the same person i'll hear these two assertions:

1) That we don't need to keep the commandments because we've been saved from them, and,

2) we need to keep the commandments now that we call ourselves Christian because we've "been given" the ability to choose between sin and righteousness.

i hear both ping-ponging back and forth every time i listen to Bible teachers, and i'm not talking about cultists or outright works-salvationists.

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We're saved from being "under the Law", which means to attempt obedience by my own efforts. But the obligation to be righteous, to be who we were created to be, has never gone away for man. Faith doesn't remove that obligation, or replace or stand in for righteousness, rather it provides the authentic means to attain it, with God, 'apart from whom we can do nothing' (John 15:5). So the New Covenant prophecy of Jer 31:33 tells us:
"I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Now under grace, with man in communion with God, rather than under the Law, man is empowered to live by the Spirit as long as he remains in Him and He in us. This vital relationship, that man was made for, can always be shattered again. Faith, in response to grace, establishes this partnership.

Hammster said:

Jesus never gave him the gospel. He only gave him law since it was obvious that was what the man was after.

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So Jesus failed to tell him the truth??

Only Jesus kept the law. By being saved by Jesus, we have the law written in our hearts. We receive the saving faith from God as a gift by grace - "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9.

We cannot lose our salvation because Jesus died for ALL our sins. We cannot lose the faith because the Holy Spirit will NEVER leave us or forsake us.

fhansen said:

Now under grace, with man in communion with God, rather than under the Law, man is empowered to live by the Spirit as long as he remains in Him and He in us. This vital relationship, that man was made for, can always be shattered again. Faith, in response to grace, establishes this partnership.

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Ezekiel 36:26-27 - "26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." We cannot lose our salvation.

Sound Doctrine said:

We cannot lose our salvation because Jesus died for ALL our sins. We cannot lose the faith because the Holy Spirit will NEVER leave us or forsake us.

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That salvation was the fruition of the Kingdom to come which did not exist before what Jesus needed to accomplish. He sent the HS (a guiding wind according to the Jews) to help keep those of the Kingdom on the narrow path but He never said some would not fall off. The Parable of the Sower was quite clear.

timothyu said:

That salvation was the fruition of the Kingdom to come which did not exist before what Jesus needed to accomplish. He sent the HS (a guiding wind according to the Jews) to help keep those of the Kingdom on the narrow path but He never said some would not fall off. The Parable of the Sower was quite clear.

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The parable of the sower was showing us how to discern true believers from false ones. Only those in the good soil are true believers. Many people read the Bible and understand it, but don't believe it. They bear no fruit. We will know them by their fruits. Check out Matthew 13, the parable of the tares.

Sound Doctrine said:

The parable of the sower was showing us how to discern true believers from false ones. Only those in the good soil are true believers. Many people read the Bible and understand it, but don't believe it. They bear no fruit. We will know them by their fruits.

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I agree one follows the Kingdom and the rest follow or return to the world of man. The focus is the Kingdom, not who is right or wrong. My reference to that parable was to show Jesus said some would fall away from His truth of the Kingdom, not be permanently saved even if they returned to the world of man. There is no place for the world of man within the Kingdom of God. The two are opposite in nature..

Sound Doctrine said:

Only Jesus kept the law. By being saved by Jesus, we have the law written in our hearts. We receive the saving faith from God as a gift by grace - "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9.

We cannot lose our salvation because Jesus died for ALL our sins. We cannot lose the faith because the Holy Spirit will NEVER leave us or forsake us.



Ezekiel 36:26-27 - "26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." We cannot lose our salvation.

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Of course we can lose our salvation, by not walking in God's ways, by turning back away from Him and to sin after "tasting of the heavenly gift". By being branches grafted in and later cut off, poor soil where the seed took root but later withered and died, by not keeping oil in our lamps, by not striving as Paul did, not persevering in and with His gift after receiving it, by refusing and rejecting His grace etc, etc. Only God can save us, only God can cause us (give us the grace) to walk in His ways, but He will never force us to walk in them, or remain walking in them.

Hammster said:

He told him the truth.

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Yes, that the law must still be fulfilled even though it's now accomplished differently: the right way, the New Covenant way, by the Spirit, under grace, in communion with God (apart from Whom we can do nothing), via the love that only He can produce in us: the Rom 13:8-10 way.

If we can lose our salvation by sinning and not walking after His commandments, what did Jesus die for? Is God an Indian giver? The false doctrine of being able to lose one's salvation is a direct spinoff of the false doctrine of free will to choose to follow Jesus. We are the clay, not the potter. We who are saved have our names written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world. If you want verses to back up what I say, I've got them, but I figured the parable of the tares in Matthew 13:24-43 would be helpful. If not, then what do you need to see from Scripture that will convince you that we are saved by grace through faith, which is a gift of God, not by our works (Ephesians 2:8-9) according to God's election and predestination (Romans 8:28-33 Romans 9:8-26 Romans 11:1-10 Ephesians 1:3-12).

Sound Doctrine said:

We who are saved have our names written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world.

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Many assume their names are written there without it being so. Ask the Lord Lords..

timothyu said:

I agree one follows the Kingdom and the rest follow or return to the world of man. The focus is the Kingdom, not who is right or wrong. My reference to that parable was to show Jesus said some would fall away from His truth of the Kingdom, not be permanently saved even if they returned to the world of man. There is no place for the world of man within the Kingdom of God. The two are opposite in nature..

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Let God take care of the kingdom. We are here to build our relationship with God and our neighbors in love. The 2 greatest commandments Jesus gave are to love the Lord thy God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, and the second is to love our neighbors as ourselves. Knowing right from wrong, which leads to being right or wrong is essential to obeying these and the other commandments. One must know what is truth and what is error, and the Bible tells us this. It is called having discernment of the spirits as to the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Sound Doctrine said:

Let God take care of the kingdom. We are here to build our relationship with God and our neighbors in love.

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Which is simply living in the ways of the Kingdom rather than the traditional ways of man, governance of God over governance of man. That clearly means we must reject something and that obviously is our former ways as beings of the world of man. We can no longer defend that of man, but only of God.

Sound Doctrine said:

If we can lose our salvation by sinning and not walking after His commandments, what did Jesus die for? Is God an Indian giver? The false doctrine of being able to lose one's salvation is a direct spinoff of the false doctrine of free will to choose to follow Jesus.

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Just the opposite, in fact. The Christian Church has consistently taught since the beginnings of the faith that the will of man necessarily plays a role in his freely accepting or rejecting God's calling or commands, from Adam on, even as grace is needed to help fallen man turn back to God. Because even with grace, man can still refuse to be saved; he can resist that grace.

Sound Doctrine said:

We are the clay, not the potter. We who are saved have our names written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world.
Yes the elect are...the elect. But no one can know with 100% certainty whether or not they are numbered among the elect, whether or not they will persevere, whether or not their names are written in the Book of Life. If you want verses to back up what I say, I've got them, but I figured the parable of the tares in Matthew 13:24-43 would be helpful. If not, then what do you need to see from Scripture that will convince you that we are saved by grace through faith, which is a gift of God, not by our works (Ephesians 2:8-9) according to God's election and predestination (Romans 8:28-33 Romans 9:8-26 Romans 11:1-10 Ephesians 1:3-12).

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The parable of the tares does not eliminate man's will from the process. And any verses brought up can also be countered with all the verses that exhort and warn and admonish and encourage believers to remain in the faith, remain in Christ, persist in good works, be holy, obey the commandments, work out their salvation, etc, with eternal life at stake. God's not an Indian giver, but we can reject His gift at any step along the way.

fhansen said:

Because even with grace, man can still refuse to be saved; he can resist that grace.

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That should be obvious when the Church itself gave us that example by rejecting the Kingdom and rejoining the world of man in accepting Constantine's offer to form a worldly power based on the same self serving foundations as all worldly powers that went before.

timothyu said:

That should be obvious when the Church itself gave us that example by rejecting the Kingdom and rejoining the world of man in accepting Constantine's offer to form a worldly power based on the same self serving foundations as all worldly powers that went before.

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Well, different context altogether based on some truth mixed with pop-mythology but you have the principle right in any case.

On a related note people, of any denomination, do not become perfectly sinless themselves regardless of whether or not their message is correct. The principle outlined in Matt 23:3 applies. And individuals within the Church have also continued down through the centuries to take her message and run with it, entering into relationship with God that changed them and produced fruits for the benefit of humankind and His kingdom, while others have not.