Ringo84

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OldWiseGuy

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98cwitr

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The camps fit the definition, so I really don't want to see Holocaust survivors paraded around to justify inhumanity to immigrants. They're concentration camps. That you're whining more about my choice of words than what's going on there speaks volumes.
Ringo

In that case every 1st world country has concentration camps for illegal immigrants.

Inside Spain's immigration detention centres

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/immigration-detention-in-the-uk/

Just two examples to drive my point home, but even as socialist as the UK is, they still have "concentration camps" too.

What's going on there? Children being cared for; given food and water, while the adults that brought them there are identified and processed? Vaccines are administered. What's wrong with that?

"Concentration camps" have a stigma about them we all can agree on: They remind us of the Holocaust, and that phrase should be left in its proper context. "Detention centers" are something else entirely. They do not insinuate the anticipation of genocide that the former does.

Also, how would prefer it be changed?
 
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98cwitr

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Ringo84

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What's going on there? Children being cared for;

Nope: ICE Agents Left 5-Year-Old Children in a Parked Van for 39 Hours

4 Severely Ill Migrant Toddlers Hospitalized After Lawyers Visit Border Patrol Facility

Report: Hundreds of migrant children held in Texas without proper food, water or medical attention

given food and water,

Nope: Report: Hundreds of migrant children held in Texas without proper food, water or medical attention

while the adults that brought them there are identified and processed? What's wrong with that?

A lot. They shouldn't be there at all, for one thing. For another, we should have more respect and dignity for these people's lives than shoving them into overcrowded facilities.

Also, how would prefer it be changed?

1. Close the camps. Permanently.
2. Grant citizenship to those already there (or at least the ability to roam freely before immigration court)
3. Prosecute those responsible for the concentration camps.

we have the liberty to have opposing views.

On this issue, it seems like there is just one view: a right one, and being in favor of the concentration camps.
Ringo
 
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OldWiseGuy

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hj
A lot. They shouldn't be there at all, for one thing. For another, we should have more respect and dignity for these people's lives than shoving them into overcrowded facilities.

The migrants shouldn't be there at all. That's the problem.
 
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Sparagmos

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I don't think the Jews showed up at the German camps voluntarily.

Do we see any piles of clothing, hair, shoes, or smoke rising?
This line of thinking is ignorant of the situation, and a straw man. We’re not saying the detention centers are the same as NAZI concentration camps, we are saying they ARE concentration camps, and historians who have studied concentration camps agree. Nobody was gassed in the Japanese internment camps, either, but they were still concentration camps.
 
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Ringo84

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They think that crocodile tears over calling them what they are - concentration camps - is somehow a gotcha because they want to define deviancy down, playing pedant about the "true" definition of a concentration camp in a vain effort to salve their guilty consciences.

I'm not playing the game because the camps we have for immigrants fit the definition of a concentration camp. Period. No amount of fake outrage, semantics games or "B-b-b-b-b-b-b-but they're illegal" is going to change that.

You think these are luxurious summer camps? Put your kids and grandkids in there. Put your money where your mouth is.
Ringo
 
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OldWiseGuy

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This line of thinking is ignorant of the situation, and a straw man. We’re not saying the detention centers are the same as NAZI concentration camps, we are saying they ARE concentration camps, and historians who have studied concentration camps agree. Nobody was gassed in the Japanese internment camps, either, but they were still concentration camps.

Concentration camps are involuntary detention. Those migrants can leave if they want to.
 
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NotreDame

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The sophistry in this thread is astounding. What’s more troubling is some have convinced themselves that negative rhetorical plots are logical.

Based on the meaning of “concentration camp,” which ostensibly means “a guarded compound for the detention or imprisonment of aliens,” a guarded compound, which would include any secured facility, think broadly here as home type structures secured and guarded, with the amenities of a 5 star hotel would be a “concentration camp.” Of that strikes you as odd, it should and there’s a reason why.

The contemporary negative perceptions associated with concentration camps undoubtedly has its roots in the not too distant past, specifically Nazi Germany. The pejorative connotation associated today with the phrase “concentration” camp is what makes the use of the phrase so appealing. Calling something a “concentration camp” poisons the well as easily as comparing someone to or calling someone Hitler! It’s a rhetorical ploy. It is, to an extent, a great use of dysphemism. The sophists in Ancient Greece would be lauding this undoubtedly witting use of the negative connotation of words.

But looking at this rationally, the fact is some illegal immigrants have to be detained in a secured facility, a “guarded compound.” What is most important isn’t the use of dysphemism but the factual conditions of the “guarded compounds,” of the detention centers. The conditions is what is important, and where the conditions of the “guarded compounds” are consistent with and result in the humane treatment and humane care of those in the “guarded compounds” then that is dispositive.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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How does the census increase power? It's the Democrats that want illegals to be counted so they can gain power. It's a money grab and a representative grab for power that has been going on for a long time. The illegals can't vote, but by Fiat they do get power by being counted and thus give states more money and more representatives. I believe the Democrats get more power from this. Most of the states that have the highest populations of illegals are Democrat states. Not all of course. Texas is one that doesn't.
I believe Democrats to be very caring. Just like Christians should be. So that's why they are caring about the illegals.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Now determining citizenship is racist? What a disingenuous and preposterous assertion.

It’s no more preposterous than your assertion that’s based on nothing but abject ignorance. Have you bothered to read anything about this issue at all? @SummerMadness provided the relevant source material in the OP.

A racially-imbalanced impact was projected by the census bureau and was the explicit goal of the architects of the plan. Those facts are not negated by your ignorance and incredulity.

Upholding the law, ensuring that we aren't letting gang members and criminals into our country, ensuring that the children at the border actually belong to the party they're accompanying:

Mexico Confirms: Illegals Trying To Buy Children To Cross Border

Trying to stop human trafficking isn't racist...it's the right thing to do.

What does any of that have to do with the census question?
 
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Ken-1122

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Well, yeah. Conservatives are really good at projection. But, then, even Republicans know that if they actually allow everyone to vote that has the right to vote they usually lose. It's a statistical fact that the higher the voter turn out the more often democratic candidates win elections.

I find it comical how Democrats make all this noise about foreign nations influencing US elections, then House Democrats vote to defend localities that allow illegal immigrants to vote in their elections.
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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I find it comical how Democrats make all this noise about foreign nations influencing US elections, then House Democrats vote to defend localities that allow illegal immigrants to vote in their elections.

There is no locality in the United States that allows known illegal aliens or undocumented foreigners to vote in federal elections. There are places where they scrapped the proof of citizenship requirement for local elections, specifically school board elections, because they argued that even if a person is undocumented they still have children going to public schools and, therefore, they should still have a say in how those schools are operated. You can agree or disagree with that if you want. Take it up with the local government and the people it represents since they were in favor of it.
 
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98cwitr

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It’s no more preposterous than your assertion that’s based on nothing but abject ignorance. Have you bothered to read anything about this issue at all? @SummerMadness provided the relevant source material in the OP.

A racially-imbalanced impact was projected by the census bureau and was the explicit goal of the architects of the plan. Those facts are not negated by your ignorance and incredulity.



What does any of that have to do with the census question?

I have, at length. What you keep calling "racist" is simply a detraction from a massive amount of people entering the country illegally and us failing to handle it. I invite you to share with me your thoughts as to why such a vast amount of people suddenly thought it okay to attempt to break our laws; and give a slap in the face to the people who worked hard to get into our country via legal means.
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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Now determining citizenship is racist? What a disingenuous and preposterous assertion.

The census is not designed to determine citizenship, only to count heads and collect some demographic data.

EDIT: removed "which, up to this point has not included whether the person to whom the head is attached is a legal citizen." That was not accurate.

I think you need to provide evidence of that before making such claims. Otherwise, you're committing libel and slander.

Compel

Revealed: Trump Officials Trying to Rig Elections for Whites
 
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Colter

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Interesting opinion because that is almost verbatim what is being said about the Democrats
Hillary and the DNC bought propaganda from the Russians through Christopher Steele, leaked it to the press to effect the election, and after loosing tried to conceal their efforts by accusing Trump of doing what they did themselves.

Interim head of the DNC Donna Brizile discovered the corruption at the DNC calling Hillary a "cancer" but she was loyal to the party.

The Left doesn't want a citizenship questionnaire to ask about citizenship because they don't want to expose how many illegal aliens there are in America.
 
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