Mammal brain production of near death experience drug

dad

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Nope. The brain is still there. Regardless of myst33's assertions without citations that all NDE's follow confirmed brain death and a complete lack of electrical activity (which is not a good determination of brain death according to these studies), the brain is still there in all of these case and the people reporting the NDEs did not actually die.

Unless someone wants to produce a study where the patient's brain was removed and destroyed and then reported an NDE...

Does it interest anyone that people who experience NDEs in Asia tend to see Hindu and Buddhist symbolism and visions that line up with those belief systems? Or that they can be induced in perfectly healthy people?
Naturally if God equipped man with some chemical helps in aiding the death experience, people could tinker around with that. In the OP, for example, people were gathering to take drugs related to this.

This does not mean that the reactions at the actual time of death would not be genuine. As for the people seeing entities that they are familiar with, that makes sense. It is not only people of the Christian religion that continue to exist after death.

If near death experiences are as you claim, and happen only to people who are not and never did die, that makes sense also. God could be preparing them for another time.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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According to medical scientists, brain is totally without any activity, when these events occur. Brain is totally without electric activity and some patients still report what doctors were doing, what were they saying and all this from the "above" perspective. Thats the phase one.

Next phases are the famous "tunnel with light", meeting dead relatives and the last phase is meeting a light being that sends them back.
Citation? Without references, it's just another unsupported claim.
 
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timewerx

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Apparently you are claiming that spirits can possess and take over electronic devices. Scary thought.

Quite probably.

If my spirit could, perhaps, other spirits can too. I could remember some of the instances. It's just darkness and these strange digital electronic noise once I'm in.

This is one reason I turn off all speakers in my room and unplug them from the computer before sleeping.

In rare instances, the audio cable draws my spirit to the computer and it will actually produce a loud feedback noise even if the computer and speakers are turned off (this is why I need to unplug them in addition).

It can be frustrating at times as I can see it causing permanent "soft" damage to the systems. Mostly corruption of the software making it respond more strongly to me. Almost establishing a link between me and the computer but with random results atm. In rare cases, permanent damage will be inflicted on hardware components. Even stranger, damaged components will get fixed by itself.

Sometimes I even had work on the computer mysteriously got completed and I was sleeping the whole time!
 
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timewerx

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Not sure about your experiences, but if you were not medically dead, then it was probably something else, not the near death experience.

But, an interesting thing - all over the world, the percentage of people who were resuscitated from the "dead brain state" and remember something from it, is 20%. But in Asia, its 40%. Nobody knows why.

I've seen many of the stuff people see in NDE who are literally in an NDE situation. The most common thing is the brilliant white light and floating around.

It did happen to me one time I was in a building I saw the people outside my room and the white light at the end of the hallway.

To think I was only dreaming, but the strangers I saw in the floating episode, I saw them later when I got out of the room doing the same thing when I was floating around in spirit.
 
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dad

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Quite probably.

If my spirit could, perhaps, other spirits can too. I could remember some of the instances. It's just darkness and these strange digital electronic noise once I'm in.

This is one reason I turn off all speakers in my room and unplug them from the computer before sleeping.

In rare instances, the audio cable draws my spirit to the computer and it will actually produce a loud feedback noise even if the computer and speakers are turned off (this is why I need to unplug them in addition).

It can be frustrating at times as I can see it causing permanent "soft" damage to the systems.

I would probably be more worried about damage caused to me than to a phone if that was happening myself. I might also suspect some bad prankster spirit was doing stuff and trying to trick me. But who knows, I guess.
Mostly corruption of the software making it respond more strongly to me.
So something seems to be causing damage to equipment near you and you are taking the rap.

Almost establishing a link between me and the computer but with random results atm.
One way to test that might be to get near an ATM and tell it to spit out a few grand and see if it obeys!! Ha. Then you would know you were affecting things in reality.

In rare cases, permanent damage will be inflicted on hardware components. Even stranger, damaged components will get fixed by itself.
Making one wonder if it was ever really damaged in the first place?
Sometimes I even had work on the computer mysteriously got completed and I was sleeping the whole time!

This all might be a bit out of my league to diagnose and help.
 
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trophy33

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Discussion by YouTube isn't really my thing...
You will probably need to make it your thing, if you want to keep up. People do not read magazines, people watch videos, in 2019, so they will support their claims much more probably with some modern media.
Citation? Without references, it's just another unsupported claim.
The youtube videos I gave to you are by the experts in the field, its as good as any citation.

But to make it more easier for you, I will create the citation for you:

"And what is really annoying for us is that those people actually can describe what we did and can report what we said when they come back.
We have no explanation for this and I cannot offer any explanation to you, because there is no brain activity at all."

Thomas Fleischmann. In: Youtube [online]. 15.09.2014 [cit. 03.07.2019]. Available from TEDx Talks channel.
 
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timewerx

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I would probably be more worried about damage caused to me than to a phone if that was happening myself. I might also suspect some bad prankster spirit was doing stuff and trying to trick me. But who knows, I guess.

I think the phenomenon may have strong electromagnetic component to it. One of the commonly affected items are batteries and they will drain rapidly during these episodes. Even car batteries of cars parked nearby would be affected.

Fortunately, we biological creatures are impervious to damage by electromagnetic effects (except for the ridiculously powerful fields perhaps)

So something seems to be causing damage to equipment near you and you are taking the rap.

My spiritual experiences similar to "near death" are often triggered by emotionally charged events.

The thing is if I managed to successfully prevent myself from expressing strong emotions following a triggering event, nothing unusual would happen.

One way to test that might be to get near an ATM and tell it to spit out a few grand and see if it obeys!! Ha. Then you would know you were affecting things in reality.

Now that would be useful! But as I've said earlier, the effects can be fairly random and I have very little control of it, other than my emotions.

Making one wonder if it was ever really damaged in the first place?

Usually dealing with electronic hardware damage only, aside from software corruption. Semiconductor technology deals heavily with Quantum Mechanics so it might be strongly related.

New cars and me don't go very well together! I prefer older cars as a result - pre 2000 models!
 
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dad

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I think the phenomenon may have strong electromagnetic component to it. One of the commonly affected items are batteries and they will drain rapidly during these episodes. Even car batteries of cars parked nearby would be affected.

Fortunately, we biological creatures are impervious to damage by electromagnetic effects (except for the ridiculously powerful fields perhaps)



My spiritual experiences similar to "near death" are often triggered by emotionally charged events.

The thing is if I managed to successfully prevent myself from expressing strong emotions following a triggering event, nothing unusual would happen.



Now that would be useful! But as I've said earlier, the effects can be fairly random and I have very little control of it, other than my emotions.



Usually dealing with electronic hardware damage only, aside from software corruption. Semiconductor technology deals heavily with Quantum Mechanics so it might be strongly related.

New cars and me don't go very well together! I prefer older cars as a result - pre 2000 models!
OK, it is all a new phenomena to me. Reminds me a bit of the ole spoon benders.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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You will probably need to make it your thing, if you want to keep up. People do not read magazines, people watch videos, in 2019, so they will support their claims much more probably with some modern media.
Maybe so; and I could respond in kind with a clutch of uncommented videos; but, call me old-fashioned, I don't call that discussion.

The youtube videos I gave to you are by the experts in the field, its as good as any citation.
A citation is a source for the specific claim that is made. If the videos make the claim you quoted, that's fine.

But to make it more easier for you, I will create the citation for you:

"And what is really annoying for us is that those people actually can describe what we did and can report what we said when they come back.
We have no explanation for this and I cannot offer any explanation to you, because there is no brain activity at all."

Thomas Fleischmann. In: Youtube [online]. 15.09.2014 [cit. 03.07.2019]. Available from TEDx Talks channel.
Thanks. I watched Fleischmann's video, and it is similar to other descriptions I have heard - except that he has a larger sample.

As I see it, it's not unreasonable that we should see certain broad commonalities of experience in those that report experience in a near-death situation. If respiration and/or circulation are failing, blood pressure and oxygenation levels are likely to fall, and CO2 and other waste gases are likely to rise; this will have an effect on the brain. For example, during 'brown-out' under high G force, military pilots have described the tunnel effect with a bright light; it's thought to be an effect of hypoxia in the visual cortex.

Most of the reported effects, including out-of-body experiences (OBE) can be elicited in healthy volunteers under lab conditions by stimulating or suppressing the activity of certain areas of the brain; in some cases directly via transcranial magnetic stimulation, in others by presenting manipulated sensory information. This suggests that these experiences are brain-mediated.

I am necessarily sceptical of his description of the cases he was unable to explain, because he provided no useful details of the circumstances; i.e. how many of these cases were there? what similarities and differences were there? did they all have 'zero brain activity'? how was brain activity measured (most clinical measures are rough proxies for brain activity)? was what the staff in the room said recorded and timed? was what the patient described a general match or word-for-word identical? did they subsequently verify that what the patient described actually happened during a period of 'zero brain activity'?

Fleischmann says that these cases occurred in emergency rooms where staff were battling to resuscitate and save the patients - were they really in a position to accurately record and remember incidental details of what was happening at the moments the patient seemed brain-dead, and match them to the patient reports hours or days later?

In the reported cases I have come across, where it has been possible for researchers to interview patient and staff after the fact, it was not possible to be sure of the precise times events happened, emergency rooms are very busy places, it wasn't possible to be sure the patient hadn't seen the emergency room or staff at some point or hadn't overheard them talking, or wasn't describing a generic emergency room, and so-on.


We also know that when people encounter what they think is an odd or unusual event, they will tell the story to others, and with each retelling, it will tend to become more odd, unusual, or interesting; i.e. they will unwittingly omit caveats and embellish it for their audience.

Now, I'm not calling Fleischmann a liar, he seems like an honest, respectable person. I'm saying that the information provided is clearly insufficient for the scientifically minded to accept at face value as evidence of something extraordinary. At best, it suggests that there may be some phenomenon occurring in these situations that is worth investigating in a structured and controlled way.

This is why I asked you if you were aware of the AWARE study. This was a structured and controlled study organised by Dr Sam Parnia, an Assistant professor of Medicine at Stonybrook University School of Medicine and director of the Human Consciousness Project at the University of Southampton. He's an expert in resuscitation medicine with a long term interest in NDEs and thinks that a mind mediated by, but not produced by the brain could explain them. He organised this study hoping to get definitive evidence of NDEs & OBEs to confirm his hypothesis.

The study, in 2008, involved the cardiac arrest resuscitation units in 15 leading medical centres in Europe and America set up to collect appropriate evidence - they even put images on high shelves that could only be seen from the ceiling. The results were published, after several delays, in 2014. There were 2060 cardiac arrests recorded, of which 140 survivors completed the first study interviews and 101 of those completed all stages.

9% had NDEs (consistent with other studies), while 2% described awareness with explicit recall of ‘seeing’ and ‘hearing’ actual events related to their resuscitation (but could well have been conscious). One had a verifiable period of conscious awareness during which time cerebral function was not expected. No-one saw the concealed images or verifiably reported events they could not have known or seen from their physical position.

Neither the discussion nor the conclusion of the study report suggested any particularly unusual or inexplicable results, beyond that awareness during cardiac arrest was more common than previously thought:

Conclusion: CA survivors commonly experience a broad range of cognitive themes, with 2% exhibiting full awareness. This supports other recent studies that have indicated consciousness may be present despite clinically undetectable consciousness.​

I italicised the sentence that may possibly explain Fleischmann's puzzling observations.

In summary, the largest well-controlled scientific study explicitly designed to examine these phenomena obtained results entirely consistent with current medical understanding and found no evidence of anything extraordinary or inexplicable.

Dr Parnia is currently supervising a second study, AWARE II, projected to report in 2020. Until then, the best scientific evidence does not support the idea that NDEs or OBEs represent anything extraordinary or inexplicable. Scepticism is still warranted.
 
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dad

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If respiration and/or circulation are failing, blood pressure and oxygenation levels are likely to fall, and CO2 and other waste gases are likely to rise; this will have an effect on the brain.
If God created man, then naturally, reactions would be built in, and part of an ability to cope with the death experience. When the time and conditions are right, then the chemical reactions would ensue. Detecting some part of this reaction chain does not mean that it was not a created thing.
For example, during 'brown-out' under high G force, military pilots have described the tunnel effect with a bright light; it's thought to be an effect of hypoxia in the visual cortex.
And, as the OP pointed out, some people take drugs to simulate such effects. That is just tinkering with what is here and set up in our brains and in the plant world etc.
So the mere fact that man can tinker around and somewhat simulate or replicate or induce such reactions does not mean that it is all some chemical fluke of evolution.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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If God created man, then naturally, reactions would be built in, and part of an ability to cope with the death experience. When the time and conditions are right, then the chemical reactions would ensue. Detecting some part of this reaction chain does not mean that it was not a created thing.
I didn't say that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

... as the OP pointed out, some people take drugs to simulate such effects. That is just tinkering with what is here and set up in our brains and in the plant world etc.
So the mere fact that man can tinker around and somewhat simulate or replicate or induce such reactions does not mean that it is all some chemical fluke of evolution.
I didn't say that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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dad

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I didn't say that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I didn't say that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The point remains that the mere observing of chemical reactions in the brain either near death, or after some tinkering by man or science does not mean that this is not how God set things up for us.
 
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dad

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Nice to see that you have finally come around to the view that near death experiences are nothing but a self-induced delusion.
Not sure who you were talking to. The reality is that God created us, and we come equipped with an ability to produce chemical reactions to deal with many things such as death and pain.
 
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dad

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All rats go to heaven. QED.
The quality of mercy is not strained. If God made allowances for creatures as well as man to ease pain, or cope with death or etc..that does not mean that the experience and destiny of rats is equal.

That being said, there are animals in heaven!
 
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