LDS Damnation for Refusal to Become Mormon

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
You said: "They have nothing to decide as far as who gets into or stays out of heaven." Citation needed.
I gave it---
Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

He comes only for the saved, then the 1000 years, then the judgement of the wicked. By judgement=the length and duration of punishment as their final end has already been decided when Jesus returns.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Not at all. The judgment you talk about and the judgement that is biblically meant are 2 different things. I already explained the biblical judgment. Didn't you read it? The 12 hold a unique place in heaven. They have nothing to decide as far as who gets into or stays out of heaven. That decision will have already been made by Jesus when He finishes His High Priestly duties. When He comes for us---"His reward is with me." It's a done deal. And what His reward?

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What do you think is going to happen?---Somebody has been granted eternal life and 1 of the apostles says--"No!" and God is going to take away what He has already given??? God doesn't make mistakes---obviously---yours does. There are probably all sorts of decisions to be made about the running of the remade earth that certain people will be given the authority to do. At the council in Job---Satan was there representing this earth--so, there is obviously some sort of hierarchy---don't know---don't care. I have no personal ambitions about being in authority--in this world or the next.
The biblical discussion is that the apostles will sit on thrones and will judge the people of the House of Israel. Do you not understand what the word "judge" means.

Tell me your interpretation of the word "judge" in the scripture, read it again:
Matthew 19:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Take note that Jesus will be on his throne, but he says the 12 will also be on their thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.
1) why does Jesus need the 12 to help him judge the tribes of Israel?

One of the reasons is, Jesus does not just grant a person eternal life the second they believe which is at the beginning of their journey. It is not until the end of their journey that their true colors are purely presented to the Lord and they are judged according to their beliefs, and their works.

Judgement is a real deal and somehow the apostles help Jesus in that process.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
The biblical discussion is that the apostles will sit on thrones and will judge the people of the House of Israel. Do you not understand what the word "judge" means.

Tell me your interpretation of the word "judge" in the scripture, read it again:
Matthew 19:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Take note that Jesus will be on his throne, but he says the 12 will also be on their thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.
1) why does Jesus need the 12 to help him judge the tribes of Israel?

One of the reasons is, Jesus does not just grant a person eternal life the second they believe which is at the beginning of their journey. It is not until the end of their journey that their true colors are purely presented to the Lord and they are judged according to their beliefs, and their works.

Judgement is a real deal and somehow the apostles help Jesus in that process.

Again---when Jesus comes to get us---the decision will already have been made as to who is saved---that is whom He comes for. He does not come for the lost. The saved will stand in judgement of the wicked---they are lost, that will not change---they judge God's decision that they are lost justly, their judgment is for length of punishment, type and so forth. They do not judge the saved---they will not counter a saved decision by God.

Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Jesus has already determined who is saved, that is what He is doing in the sanctuary now as our High Priest. They may be making other determinations about the saved--as to what they may have authority over and so on--no one knows the workings of the government of God. But Jesus determines who is saved --He covers the sinner with His blood---God accepts His sacrifice--his name is written in the book of life.

Joh_8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Rom_2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
2Ti_4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Heb_10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb_12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Rev_19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,507
6,394
Midwest
✟78,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Then his name would be "El". Elohim is what we call the first God mentioned in Genesis 1:1. That is because that is what Moses called him. It is plural and we believe that it suggests that the Gods there was more than 1 God involved in the spirit creation in the first chapter of Genesis. Then in the second chapter of Genesis the Lord God Jesus was chosen to do the natural creation of all things.

It is a fascinating subject, but JS was right on target.

The Bible is the word of God, not Moses.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,507
6,394
Midwest
✟78,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
You can say malarkey all you want, but the bible, although not crystal clear, has enough to offer about the priesthood that one should wonder why their pastors don't have the preisthood.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church that even talks about Melchizedec Priesthood, let alone says that they possess the keys of the priesthood and use them.
Baloney --- Christians know their High Priest and He is not a follower of Joseph Smith.
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,507
6,394
Midwest
✟78,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
"Men may search and they may study, but they will never come to a knowledge of God until they receive [Mormonism]the Gospel and obtain light through the power of the Priesthood and the ordinances of the Gospel. It is easy to see, with the explanation the Lord has given us, that it was the most natural thing in the world, after the Church disappeared and the authority which always accompanies it, that all manner of false doctrines and philosophies would take the place of the knowledge of God. See the sad condition of those who once belonged to the Church, but have fallen away, how they have lost the key to spiritual knowledge! Certain organizations have been formed from time to time by those who have gone out of the Church, but the light which they formerly had has left them. They are soon left to grope in spiritual darkness, because the 'power of godliness' ceases to be with them. When the light goes out then darkness of the worst kind enters in. As Alma said, they are bound by the chains of hell."
Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, copyright 1972, pp 210-211

Christian The Lord is my Light.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,507
6,394
Midwest
✟78,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
One of the reasons is, Jesus does not just grant a person eternal life the second they believe which is at the beginning of their journey. It is not until the end of their journey that their true colors are purely presented to the Lord and they are judged according to their beliefs, and their works.

TRUE COLORS:
There is No One Righteous

(Psalm 14:1-7)
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps isunder their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Justified by Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Elohim is plural.
(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 15:4)

4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If you believe any other God was there, you are breaking the commandments----"Thou shalt have no other God's before Me!!!" Break one you break them all.
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟217,719.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If you believe any other God was there, you are breaking the commandments----"Thou shalt have no other God's before Me!!!" Break one you break them all.
That's right. And as He is the Way likes to endlessly point out, if you love God, you'll keep the commandments. So that kinda leaves them in a pickle... :confused:
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
TRUE COLORS:
There is No One Righteous

(Psalm 14:1-7)
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps isunder their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Justified by Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Yes you are justified by faith. Faith as you know is an action word. It is by faith that we accomplish those things that Jesus before has appointed us to do.

James puts it best when he says I will show you my faith by my good works, which is another way to say that I will show you my true colors (faith) by my good works, throughout my life, and by the grace of Jesus I will receive eternal life.

Keep up your good faith and fight the good fight for Jesus.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

drstevej

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."
In Memory Of
Mar 18, 2003
47,493
27,114
74
Lousianna
✟1,001,611.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Faith as you know is an action word.

Not always. You believe there is a Heavenly Mother. What action is involved in that faith? We have to prod and prod for LDS to discuss her.


Keep up your good faith and fight the good fight for Jesus.

Do you fight the good fight at 100% ? 75% ? 50% ? What's your score thus far? ___ % What will it be tomorrow? ___ %
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If you believe any other God was there, you are breaking the commandments----"Thou shalt have no other God's before Me!!!" Break one you break them all.
Yes we are to glorify and worship God the Father. We should have no other Gods before Him. He is the God of Jesus Christ:
(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Believing in other Gods is not breaking the commandments, putting them before God the Father is breaking the commandments.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
That's right. And as He is the Way likes to endlessly point out, if you love God, you'll keep the commandments. So that kinda leaves them in a pickle... :confused:
Not at all, breaking the commandments is putting other Gods before God the Father. There are other Gods and Lords:
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:5 - 6)

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Yes we are to glorify and worship God the Father. We should have no other Gods before Him. He is the God of Jesus Christ:
(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Believing in other Gods is not breaking the commandments, putting them before God the Father is breaking the commandments.


Mormon interpretation. Christian interpretation = no other Gods---period.


There shalt be to thee no other god before me. The result is the same, whether we translate Elohim by "god" or "gods;" but the singular verb shows that the plural form of the name is a mere plural of dignity. Before me --literally, before my face-- means strictly, "side by side with me"-- i.e., "in addition to me."
 
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,507
6,394
Midwest
✟78,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Yes you are justified by faith. Faith as you know is an action word. It is by faith that we accomplish those things that Jesus before has appointed us to do.

James puts it best when he says I will show you my faith by my good works, which is another way to say that I will show you my true colors (faith) by my good works, throughout my life, and by the grace of Jesus I will receive eternal life.

Keep up your good faith and fight the good fight for Jesus.

Oh, Mormonism, I left you and your false teachings to follow the Savior! If Mormonism were true its doctrines wouldn't change so often.

Mormons have to be worthy of grace (IOW, earn it).
  • "The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil. The idea upon which this pernicious doctrine was founded was at first associated with that of an absolute predestination, by which man was foredoomed to destruction, or to an undeserved salvation."
  • James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith(paperback version 1977),p. 480

And:

Please explain what the atonement means for Mormons.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Mormon interpretation. Christian interpretation = no other Gods---period.


There shalt be to thee no other god before me. The result is the same, whether we translate Elohim by "god" or "gods;" but the singular verb shows that the plural form of the name is a mere plural of dignity. Before me --literally, before my face-- means strictly, "side by side with me"-- i.e., "in addition to me."
There are several places in the Bible showing the plurality of God beginning with Genesis:

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:26)

26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Oh, Mormonism, I left you and your false teachings to follow the Savior! If Mormonism were true its doctrines wouldn't change so often.

Mormons have to be worthy of grace (IOW, earn it).
  • "The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil. The idea upon which this pernicious doctrine was founded was at first associated with that of an absolute predestination, by which man was foredoomed to destruction, or to an undeserved salvation."
  • James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith(paperback version 1977),p. 480

And:

Please explain what the atonement means for Mormons.
We follow the Savior because we want to LOVE Him by keeping the commandments:
(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Dead faith saves no one.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
There are several places in the Bible showing the plurality of God beginning with Genesis:

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:26)

26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

See Post # 308
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,507
6,394
Midwest
✟78,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
There are several places in the Bible showing the plurality of God beginning with Genesis:

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:26)

26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are NOT sepatate created Gods. God is one uncreated being.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,507
6,394
Midwest
✟78,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Obedience is the basic law of heaven, and obedience to specific laws will result in specific blessings, culminating in the greatest blessing, as Elder Marion G. Romney explained: “The perfection upon which exaltation hangs, I repeat, is an individual matter. It is conditioned upon the observance of celestial laws as they apply to earth life. The Word of Wisdom is one of them, so also are chastity, tithing, observance of the Sabbath day, prayer, honesty, industry, love of God and fellow men, patience, kindness, charity, and all the rest of the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Each individual who observes one or more of these laws shall receive the blessings predicated thereon, and each Church member who will, with all the energy of his soul, diligently strive to live them all, shall receive the blessings predicated upon such striving. Eternal life, the greatest gift of God, is that blessing, and it will follow the living of the gospel as the night the day, regardless of statistics or averages, or of what others think or say or do.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1956, pp. 15–16; see also Enrichment G in the Appendix.)
“Section 130, Items of Instruction,” Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (2002), 321–24
 
Upvote 0