LDS Book of Mormon is Anti-Bible and Anti-Non-Mormon Churches

Phoebe Ann said:

You just gave proof of diddly squat! The word is in the following verse is present tense:

Isaiah 33:5
The LORD is exalted; for he dwelleth on high: he hath filled Zion with judgment and righteousness.

Isaiah 2:11
The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

God loves us so much that He exalts Himself (not by self-improvement) so that our JOY may be complete.

I feel sad for Mormons who want to worship supposed exalted creatures who are not God. "The end thereof are the ways of death."

Psalm 34:3
O magnify the LORD with me, and let us exalt his name together.

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That does not nullify the verses I quoted. Members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints do not worship exalted creatures who are not God. We worship God the Father. God the Father exalted Jesus Christ, He did not exalt Himself, He is already exalted.

He is the way said:

I guess you didn't know that Nephi's knowledge came from God:

(Book of Mormon | 1 Nephi 1:1)

1 I, NEPHI, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.

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I'd bold the part where he learned it all from his dad who didn't have the story straight either.

He is the way said:

So let us read more:

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 7:25 - 28)

25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:
26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.
27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.
28 But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.

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This speaks in a general sense throughout Israel's history, it does not establish during the reign of Hezekiah that truthsayers were tolerated, the opposite was the state of affairs.

Jeremiah 37
19 Where are now your prophets which prophesied unto you, saying, The king of Babylon shall not come against you, nor against this land?
20 Therefore hear now, I pray thee, O my lord the king: let my supplication, I pray thee, be accepted before thee; that thou cause me not to return to the house of Jonathan the scribe, lest I die there.
21 Then Zedekiah the king commanded that they should commit Jeremiah into the court of the prison, and that they should give him daily a piece of bread out of the bakers’ street, until all the bread in the city were spent. Thus Jeremiah remained in the court of the prison.

This illustrates that Nephi is a liar. Only Jeremiah was left to prophesy truth, and the all the other prophets were prophesying lies during the age of Zedekiah.

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 26:20 - 21)

20 And there was also a man that prophesied in the name of the LORD, Urijah the son of Shemaiah of Kirjath-jearim, who prophesied against this city and against this land according to all the words of Jeremiah:
21 And when Jehoiakim the king, with all his mighty men, and all the princes, heard his words, the king sought to put him to death: but when Urijah heard it, he was afraid, and fled, and went into Egypt;

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"there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed."

How does this illustrate the many prophets?

(Old Testament | 2 Kings 17:13 - 14)

13 Yet the LORD testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets.
14 Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the LORD their God.

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2 Kings 17
1 ¶ In the twelfth year of Ahaz king of Judah began Hoshea the son of Elah to reign in Samaria over Israel nine years.

Wrong king era.

(Old Testament | 2 Chronicles 36:12 - 16)

12 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD his God, and humbled not himself before Jeremiah the prophet speaking from the mouth of the LORD.
13 And he also rebelled against king Nebuchadnezzar, who had made him swear by God: but he stiffened his neck, and hardened his heart from turning unto the LORD God of Israel.
14 ¶ Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the LORD which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.
15 And the LORD God of their fathers sent to them by his messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because he had compassion on his people, and on his dwelling place:
16 But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy.

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verse 15 and 16 is the general sense, of all the prophets sent throughout the nation's history, this was the end of the line.

Phoebe Ann said:

Thank you for realizing that your prophets Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Joseph F. Smith, and Wiford Woodruff said otherwise:

“...It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth”
Joseph Smith, Teachings, pp. 345-46


“I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions.... Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman.”
Joseph F. Smith, Church News, 19 Sept. 1936, p. 2

“[God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children.....We are here to fill a probation and receive an education.”
Wilford Woodruff, Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p. 546

“He is our Father—the Father of our Spirits—and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are....

“...There never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through....

“It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has been a finite being.”
Brigham Young, Deseret News, 16 Nov. 1859, p. 290

Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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You said: "Thank you for realizing that your prophets Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Joseph F. Smith, and Wiford Woodruff said otherwise:"

No they didn't. They worship the exalted God of the Bible who is the Father and God of Jesus Christ, and we are all brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ who was exalted by the Father.

Michael Collum said:

1 Nep1:3 And I know that the record which I make is true; and I make it with mine own hand; and I make it according to my knowledge.
Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 ¶ Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

I guess Nephi didn't read the proverbs.

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You have handpicked a scripture that does not portray the mind of Nephi as to his dependence on the Lord. This is Nephi telling us that he wrote these words with his own hand and according to his knowledge.

Did you read any more of 1 Nephi, or were you satisfied with this 1 scripture that you had discovered a fatal flaw in the BOM and need not read further. Because if you had you would have read how much Nephi did trust in the Lord with all his heart. Here are just a few scriptures in just the first 4 chapters of 1 Nephi:
1 Nephi 2:16
1 Nephi 2:19-20
1 Nephi 3:7
1 Nephi 4:1-2

Good reading, in fact in just the book of 1 Nephi, I project 25 scriptures that would tell us how much Nephi really loved and trusted the Lord, just as Proverbs tell us to.

Now lets look at 1 Nephi 1:4:
Nephi says there were many prophets that were telling the people that if they did not repent of their wicked ways, the great city of Jerusalem would be destroyed.

Jeremiah says that there were false prophets coming among the people telling them that they will have peace and no sword, so don't worry.

It looks like in at least one way, Nephi and Jeremiah are telling the people the same message.

The only difference is that Jeremiah says prophets were coming telling them lies. Nephi is telling us that prophets were coming telling the people to repent or be destroyed (the same message as Jeremiah).

Could they both be right?

Jeremiah 14:14 says that those prophets that are prophesying lies in my name, I did not send....
But is it possible that the Lord did send true prophets other than Jeremiah? Yes, he did.

Jeremiah 21:1 Confirms that King Zedekiah was the king at the time of Jeremiah and Nephi, so this is good, and Jeremmiah 21 is all about the people repenting or they will be destroyed, just like Lehi, Nephi's father was telling the people.

Then in your own words you say "according to Jeremiah the other prophets other than him were telling lies in the name of the Lord." But Jeremiah did not say that. He said the prophets prophesying lies, I did not send. The Lord does not say that all prophets other than Jeremiah prophesying lies, I did not send.

So the Lord does not shut the door on prophets that he sent other than Jeremiah that told the truth, as Jeremiah was. Israel is not just Jerusalem, there is a lot of country to cover, so it is not unreasonable to think that God sent other prophets with the same message as Jeremiah, such as Lehi, Nephi's father.
And the same thing that the people did to Jeremiah, they would have done to Lehi, except the Lord told him to leave and begin the adventure of the BOM.
So we read Jeremiah 7:25, Jeremiah 26:5, and Jeremiah 44:4 that God sent plural prophets to the people because they were so wicked, but to no avail, they still turned against them all.

Jeremiah was certainly the main prophet, but there were minor prophets also.
If we had read in the BOM that Lehi had prophesied that there would be peace in the land and that Babylon would not come and destroy you, then you would have a conflict between the BOM and the Bible. But he was in lock step with Jeremiah and his message, which was from the Lord.

So, as I have presented this response, I do not see a conflict between the BOM and the Bible.
1) Nephi is true that King Zedekiah was king at this time.
2) Nephi mentions Jeremiah and his prophcies during his time.
3) The message from his father Lehi is the same massage as Jeremiahs.
The only possible minor conflict is: Was there other prophets that were testifying the truth besides Jeremiah? The BOM says there was, the Bible indicates there were. However, most of the other prophets besides Jeremiah were wicked and telling lies.

Read more of the BOM and see the love and trust that Lehi and Nephi have for the Lord, it is a good read.

Michael Collum said:

I'd bold the part where he learned it all from his dad who didn't have the story straight either.

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It is obvious to me that he did not learn everything from his father and that this was written later on in his life. We know that he learned much from God during his life.

Michael Collum said:

This speaks in a general sense throughout Israel's history, it does not establish during the reign of Hezekiah that truthsayers were tolerated, the opposite was the state of affairs.

Jeremiah 37
19 Where are now your prophets which prophesied unto you, saying, The king of Babylon shall not come against you, nor against this land?
20 Therefore hear now, I pray thee, O my lord the king: let my supplication, I pray thee, be accepted before thee; that thou cause me not to return to the house of Jonathan the scribe, lest I die there.
21 Then Zedekiah the king commanded that they should commit Jeremiah into the court of the prison, and that they should give him daily a piece of bread out of the bakers’ street, until all the bread in the city were spent. Thus Jeremiah remained in the court of the prison.

This illustrates that Nephi is a liar. Only Jeremiah was left to prophesy truth, and the all the other prophets were prophesying lies during the age of Zedekiah.



"there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed."

How does this illustrate the many prophets?



2 Kings 17
1 ¶ In the twelfth year of Ahaz king of Judah began Hoshea the son of Elah to reign in Samaria over Israel nine years.

Wrong king era.



verse 15 and 16 is the general sense, of all the prophets sent throughout the nation's history, this was the end of the line.

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Are you assuming that this verse in the Book of Mormon is wrong because many prophets .....:
(Book of Mormon | 1 Nephi 1:4)

....in that same year there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed.

It would be amazing if the Bible wrote about everything that happened during that time, however we know that the Bible does not mention everything that happened in Jerusalem at that time. If it did, it would not be possible to read it in a lifetime. I am not going to assume that Nephi was wrong about this. There is nothing to prove that he was wrong.

Peter1000 said:

You have handpicked a scripture that does not portray the mind of Nephi as to his dependence on the Lord. This is Nephi telling us that he wrote these words with his own hand and according to his knowledge.

Did you read any more of 1 Nephi, or were you satisfied with this 1 scripture that you had discovered a fatal flaw in the BOM and need not read further. Because if you had you would have read how much Nephi did trust in the Lord with all his heart. Here are just a few scriptures in just the first 4 chapters of 1 Nephi:
1 Nephi 2:16
1 Nephi 2:19-20
1 Nephi 3:7
1 Nephi 4:1-2

Good reading, in fact in just the book of 1 Nephi, I project 25 scriptures that would tell us how much Nephi really loved and trusted the Lord, just as Proverbs tell us to.

Now lets look at 1 Nephi 1:4:
Nephi says there were many prophets that were telling the people that if they did not repent of their wicked ways, the great city of Jerusalem would be destroyed.

Jeremiah says that there were false prophets coming among the people telling them that they will have peace and no sword, so don't worry.

It looks like in at least one way, Nephi and Jeremiah are telling the people the same message.

The only difference is that Jeremiah says prophets were coming telling them lies. Nephi is telling us that prophets were coming telling the people to repent or be destroyed (the same message as Jeremiah).

Could they both be right?

Jeremiah 14:14 says that those prophets that are prophesying lies in my name, I did not send....
But is it possible that the Lord did send true prophets other than Jeremiah? Yes, he did.

Jeremiah 21:1 Confirms that King Zedekiah was the king at the time of Jeremiah and Nephi, so this is good, and Jeremmiah 21 is all about the people repenting or they will be destroyed, just like Lehi, Nephi's father was telling the people.

Then in your own words you say "according to Jeremiah the other prophets other than him were telling lies in the name of the Lord." But Jeremiah did not say that. He said the prophets prophesying lies, I did not send. The Lord does not say that all prophets other than Jeremiah prophesying lies, I did not send.

So the Lord does not shut the door on prophets that he sent other than Jeremiah that told the truth, as Jeremiah was. Israel is not just Jerusalem, there is a lot of country to cover, so it is not unreasonable to think that God sent other prophets with the same message as Jeremiah, such as Lehi, Nephi's father.
And the same thing that the people did to Jeremiah, they would have done to Lehi, except the Lord told him to leave and begin the adventure of the BOM.
So we read Jeremiah 7:25, Jeremiah 26:5, and Jeremiah 44:4 that God sent plural prophets to the people because they were so wicked, but to no avail, they still turned against them all.

Jeremiah was certainly the main prophet, but there were minor prophets also.
If we had read in the BOM that Lehi had prophesied that there would be peace in the land and that Babylon would not come and destroy you, then you would have a conflict between the BOM and the Bible. But he was in lock step with Jeremiah and his message, which was from the Lord.

So, as I have presented this response, I do not see a conflict between the BOM and the Bible.
1) Nephi is true that King Zedekiah was king at this time.
2) Nephi mentions Jeremiah and his prophcies during his time.
3) The message from his father Lehi is the same massage as Jeremiahs.
The only possible minor conflict is: Was there other prophets that were testifying the truth besides Jeremiah? The BOM says there was, the Bible indicates there were. However, most of the other prophets besides Jeremiah were wicked and telling lies.

Read more of the BOM and see the love and trust that Lehi and Nephi have for the Lord, it is a good read.

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In the effective area (the 1st year of the reign of Zedekiah) Nephi says many prophets were preaching a message of repentance. However, the passages quoted from Jeremiah in the above post only quoted one passage that could even be guessed to be around the time of Zedekiah somewhere near the beginning.

One of the scriptures used earlier was not a prophet, but someone who believed Jeremiah's message. As it is written he spoke according to the word of Jeremiah, not according to the Lord who sent him. This messenger who believed Jeremiah was killed by the King and his government.

There was a culture of killing prophets leading up to and after the first year of Zedekiah, therefore "many prophets" could not have possibly been doing what Nephi said happened at that time.

The BOM is not written as a book of scripture but as a personal account by a false prophet, it violates another proverb

Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips. (proverbs 27:8)

Nephi self proclaims himself, this violates a rule that would have been common knowledge back in the time of Jeremiah if this man were indeed a prophet or from that era at all.

He is the way said:

It is obvious to me that he did not learn everything from his father and that this was written later on in his life. We know that he learned much from God during his life.

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He is the way said:

Are you assuming that this verse in the Book of Mormon is wrong because many prophets .....:
(Book of Mormon | 1 Nephi 1:4)

....in that same year there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed.

It would be amazing if the Bible wrote about everything that happened during that time, however we know that the Bible does not mention everything that happened in Jerusalem at that time. If it did, it would not be possible to read it in a lifetime. I am not going to assume that Nephi was wrong about this. There is nothing to prove that he was wrong.

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These are standard answers that Christians give for their scriptures. Though I find the reasoning method unsatisfying, I'll give you that you didn't inject any more falsehood when you explained it.

Michael Collum said:

In the effective area (the 1st year of the reign of Zedekiah) Nephi says many prophets were preaching a message of repentance. However, the passages quoted from Jeremiah in the above post only quoted one passage that could even be guessed to be around the time of Zedekiah somewhere near the beginning.

One of the scriptures used earlier was not a prophet, but someone who believed Jeremiah's message. As it is written he spoke according to the word of Jeremiah, not according to the Lord who sent him. This messenger who believed Jeremiah was killed by the King and his government.

There was a culture of killing prophets leading up to and after the first year of Zedekiah, therefore "many prophets" could not have possibly been doing what Nephi said happened at that time.

The BOM is not written as a book of scripture but as a personal account by a false prophet, it violates another proverb

Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips. (proverbs 27:8)

Nephi self proclaims himself, this violates a rule that would have been common knowledge back in the time of Jeremiah if this man were indeed a prophet or from that era at all.

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Like I say, the Bible is not real clear on how many other good prophets there were at the time of Jeremiah. If the BOM says there were many minor prophets that were preaching about the destruction of Jerusalem, I believe it. To me it is a small matter, not worth a lot of debate.

It is a personal account of Nephi's relationship with Jesus Christ. So it ends up being a book of scripture.

You seem to want to find a reason for not believing in the BOM. Just read it all and then come to a conclusion. But do not read it to prove it wrong or you will. Read it to find out more about Jesus Christ and you will and you will be happy for doing it.

Peter1000 said:

It is a personal account of Nephi's relationship with Jesus Christ.

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That's impossible, no one had a relationship with Jesus Christ until he incarnated.

Michael Collum said:

That's impossible, no one had a relationship with Jesus Christ until he incarnated.

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Abraham did.

Michael Collum said:

That's impossible, no one had a relationship with Jesus Christ until he incarnated.

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Who do you think appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Elijah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Malachi, Lehi, Nehpi, Jacob, Enos, etc., etc., etc.

All of these men had a relationship with Jesus Christ before his incarnation. Jesus was the God of the OT.

He is the way said:

Abraham did.

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Abraham saw his day and was glad, he didn't have a relationship.

Peter1000 said:

Who do you think appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Elijah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Malachi, Lehi, Nehpi, Jacob, Enos, etc., etc., etc.

All of these men had a relationship with Jesus Christ before his incarnation. Jesus was the God of the OT.

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The Father was the one they knew with in the Old Testament. The Gospel of John even indicates that the Father was indwelling Jesus when He was on earth.

Michael Collum said:

The Father was the one they knew with in the Old Testament. The Gospel of John even indicates that the Father was indwelling Jesus when He was on earth.

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So all those sighting of God in the OT was God the Father showing himself to holy men? Where was Jehovah BTW? You know that Jesus in the NT was Jehovah in the OT?