Please Stop Telling Me America Is Great

Aldebaran · Jul 1, 2019

Ringo84 said:
Sheltering people from a hurricane is...not the same thing as putting kids in concentration camps.

Who brought them illegally across the border to end up there in the first place?
BTW, you should quit using the term "concentration camp". You diminish what happened to the Jews under Hitler by making such a ridiculous comparison.

SummerMadness · Jul 1, 2019

I'm still waiting for someone to give me some hard data showing how America is the greatest. All I have seen so far are people giving full-throated support for concentration camps.

Sparagmos · Jul 1, 2019

Der Alter said:
<K1>I mean the average standard of living. From my understanding the average African in Europe, or the average Caribbean does not have a higher standard of living than the average African American. The richest black people are mostly from America; yeah there are some Nigerians and people from other oil rich nations who are super rich because their family are in the Oil business, but that’s old money; most American rich, not only blacks but of any race is new money meaning first generation rich. That is a testament of opportunity. If you are of humble means, you have more chances of making it big in America than anywhere else.
According to the Brookings institute, if you live in America and you
*Graduate High School
*Don’t get married or have Children until after age 21
*Have a Job (any job)
It doesn’t matter if you’re black, white, or whatever; If you accomplish those 3 things, you have only a 2% chance of being in poverty, and you have a 74% chance of being middle class. Of all the people I know of who live in poverty, none of them have accomplished those 3 things.
Most of what I know of other countries is from what I’ve heard from various people who lived there; but from what I’ve been told it seems there is more opportunity for financial advancement in America than anywhere else.<K1>
Their minds are made up don't try to confuse them with facts.

The U.S. lags behind Europe in upward mobility.
Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

timewerx · Jul 1, 2019

hislegacy said:
America was and is great because of the millions and millions of people who have been positively impacted because of America. We are often first to help, first to defend and first to build.

When Poland was being threatened, it was American power that protected them. Same with many nations.

Ironically, during WW2, Joseph Stalin was a bigger evil than Adolf Hitler and killed and tortured more innocent people under his regime.

The alliance with USA and GB gave USSR more teeth and basically handed millions of innocent Germans and other European countries at the mercy of Stalin's regime of terror post WW2. This brought harm to much more people than the Nazis ever did.

USA is no hero of WW2 if you look closely at history. Same with Great Britain. The magnitude of their help during ww2 is massively exaggerated. They don't usually regard the "average citizen" as part of the equation and are expendable (only the Jews, American, and English lives mattered). But if everything were to be accounted, the allies did more harm than good.

At the time, USSR was far bigger threat than Germany/Nazis (with plenty of proof). But USA and GB chose the wrong ally. They could have chosen the lesser evil, ironically, at that time was Hitler. And Hitler did invite GB in an alliance for an invasion of Russia.

WherevertheWindblows · Jul 1, 2019

Ringo84 said:
Sheltering people from a hurricane is...not the same thing as putting kids in concentration camps.

No one said it is, its a temporary shelter in a crisis.

Because their kids deserve the same chance for a good life as they do?

You said, "Kids don't get treated this way" (when providing emergency shelter for them) and I said, "They could leave the children outside but why?" And no you say, "Because their kids deserve the same chance for a good life as they do?"

That made no sense.

So?

So, they aren't supposedly illegal as you suggest.

Assuming that's true, they're wrong. This country is plenty large enough to accommodate the people who flee here.
Ringo

Your opinion is just one of the many in America (if you are a citizen) not everyone shares the same one.

And with that, I will leave you to continue to hammer out the open borders and the whole concentrations camp spiel with those who have the time to do so.

Ken-1122 · Jul 1, 2019

SummerMadness said:
I think we're going to need see some citations on poverty among Afro-Latino, Afro-Caribbean, Afro-European, etc., before arguments like you're making are taken at face value. If you're going to reference something about Americans, cool, but since you're making the argument that they are the "greatest," then you'll need to cite other countries.

I doubt I am going to be able to provide anything you will find acceptable; and that was not my intention. I was just telling you why I find the USA to be the best place in the world as a black man

SummerMadness · Jul 1, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
I doubt I am going to be able to provide anything you will find acceptable; and that was not my intention. I was just telling you why I find the USA to be the best place in the world as a black man

You can provide data that demonstrates your argument rather than claim something about my acceptance. You mentioned a higher standard of living, okay, show us some poverty rates and how people of African descent in America have better living conditions than any other country in the world.

People want to say something is the best, then when asked, "Okay, how does it best other countries?" All of a sudden, "You're not going to accept my answer, so I'm not going to be able to show you!" That is a cop out, you can simply provide some data that shows the US is the best.

timothyu · Jul 1, 2019

wing2000 said:
Americans who elected and continue to support Donald Trump have forsaken the values by which this country was founded.

Didaskalos said:
Pro-life is twisted as sexist.

Der Alter said:
My argument against socialism is Venuzuela.

Such narrow minded politically oriented remarks that have nothing to do with greatness.

timothyu · Jul 1, 2019

Speedwell said:
Which required a corrupt politician as well as socialism to crash, a man who would have ruined the country no matter what "ism" it was running on.

Actually it took one of the largest oil deposits to start this problem and deflect the reasons to other issues.

Ken-1122 · Jul 2, 2019

Sparagmos said:
The U.S. lags behind Europe in upward mobility.
Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

I don’t think it is a fair comparison because the distance between the top quantile and the bottom quintile in the US is far greater than in the other countries mentioned, a person in the US would have to travel a lot higher up the economic ladder to reach the top quintile, than what would be necessary in the other countries mentioned.

timothyu · Jul 2, 2019

carlv_52 said:
America has a lot they can improve on. We can do better with income inequality, we can do better with poverty, we can do better with access to healthcare, we can do better with education in math and science, etc.

That can be accomplished with unity. The powers that be have insured that the nation is completely divided. This division guarantees no solutions. The real question is 'who profits?' as a result and how? That is what is behind the whole thing.

timothyu · Jul 2, 2019

Ringo84 said:
Only fragile white people think that we're "full".

Have you considered these 'illegals' , the separation and the camps are just a test run for what is to come down the road as a result of the division within the US itself?

Ken-1122 · Jul 2, 2019

SummerMadness said:
You can provide data that demonstrates your argument rather than claim something about my acceptance. You mentioned a higher standard of living, okay, show us some poverty rates and how people of African descent in America have better living conditions than any other country in the world.

People want to say something is the best, then when asked, "Okay, how does it best other countries?" All of a sudden, "You're not going to accept my answer, so I'm not going to be able to show you!" That is a cop out, you can simply provide some data that shows the US is the best.

I couldn’t find anything that provides an economic comparison between blacks in the US vs other parts of the world. For some reason, nothing on line seems to have this information. I think it is safe to assume blacks in the US are going to do better than blacks in third world nations like most those in Sub-Saharan Africa, but as far as the European nations; I couldn’t find anything, so I doubt I can provide you anything that you would find convincing. But this was not my intent from the start, I only told you why I believe the US is the best and that is because of what I was told by others who lived in other countries, and from what I saw during my travels to other countries
I did find a link claiming the US is among the least racist countries in the world.

America Is Among Least Racist Countries In The World

SummerMadness · Jul 2, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
I couldn’t find anything that provides an economic comparison between blacks in the US vs other parts of the world. For some reason, nothing on line seems to have this information. I think it is safe to assume blacks in the US are going to do better than blacks in third world nations like most those in Sub-Saharan Africa, but as far as the European nations; I couldn’t find anything, so I doubt I can provide you anything that you would find convincing. But this was not my intent from the start, I only told you why I believe the US is the best and that is because of what I was told by others who lived in other countries, and from what I saw during my travels to other countries
I did find a link claiming the US is among the least racist countries in the world.

America Is Among Least Racist Countries In The World

I'm quite sure your research skills are flawed, you can find economic data for other countries, you just don't know how to search for it properly, that's okay, you can't answer the question. You can't make any assumptions because you do not have the information, it really is that simple. When someone argues, "We are the greatest," that is a quantifiable thing. Is it education? Is it healthcare? Is it home ownership? Is it economic mobility? Is it unemployment? Is it lowest poverty? The OP is about people calling America the greatest and never providing the actual information of how it is the greatest, which is exactly what you're doing here.

You now have a link... and it is exactly what the OP discusses. America is AMONG the least racist countries in the world. The keyword is AMONG. Among does not mean the least, it does not mean the peak, or the greatest, it means that there are other countries that also share this same characteristic. If the US is only among many other countries, it is obviously not the greatest at that factor.

I can tell you one thing, the US is definitely not the greatest at human rights. And that will have horrible repercussions in the future.

Sparagmos · Jul 2, 2019

Der Alter said:
Lots of folks have no idea what a concentration camp is. If we do not detain these illegal immigrants at the border what shall we do with them?

You haven't made you case yet.

More Than 140 Holocaust, genocide experts think Ocasio-Cortez should be allowed to call migrant detention centers "concentration camps"

Well, these folks know what a concentration camp is.

Sparagmos · Jul 2, 2019

SummerMadness said:
I'm still waiting for someone to give me some hard data showing how America is the greatest. All I have seen so far are people giving full-throated support for concentration camps.

No one has anything. Well, except that we are the most “generous.”

Sparagmos · Jul 2, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
I don’t think it is a fair comparison because the distance between the top quantile and the bottom quintile in the US is far greater than in the other countries mentioned, a person in the US would have to travel a lot higher up the economic ladder to reach the top quintile, than what would be necessary in the other countries mentioned.

That’s called the wealth gap and it means a smaller middle class. It’s another indicator of the lack of economic mobility.

SummerMadness · Jul 2, 2019

I still have not seen anyone provide a quantitative measure of what makes America the greatest. You would think that being the greatest country, you could easily refer to any number of things. For instance, argue the country has the highest rate of literacy, lowest levels of disease, best record on human rights, etc.

No one has provided a single measure, or perhaps I should say, no one has provide a unique measure that would demonstrate the country being the greatest, not simply a good thing you can find in other countries. All I’m seeing from people is evasion of a rather simple question: What factors makes the United States the greatest? And by greatest, we’re talking about a unique factor (or combination of factors) that you cannot get in another country.

All I’ve seen so far is the equivalent of The Boondocks R. Kelly response, “‘Cause he good.” Care to elaborate?

Kaon · Jul 2, 2019

Didaskalos said:
America is the greatest nation in history.
Cannot be denied. Nobody else even comes close.
Hate her if you want.
I notice you are not leaving for any of these better countries.
That sort of tells the story.

Plenty of people expatriate from the States to places like Norway, Australia and Indonesia. The racism isn't as bad, the pay is better, the air is cleaner in some of the places, people tend to understand GMOs are bad for the body and reject them (i.e. diets arent slop), and you get actual employment benefits, and an experience of a livelihood. There is a sense of connection, and these countries don't try to start proxy wars for profit as much as America.

They are still just nations - generally abysmal in quality of life for many - but definitely better than living in a dying empire of supremacy in deception and exploitation.

wing2000 · Jul 2, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
America isn't great because of the President in office. America is great in spite of the President in office.

....only if her citizens live by the values stated in the United States Constitution. As I look around, I see at least a 1/3 of our citizens who seem to be okay with attacking the very foundations of our democratic republic.

Please Stop Telling Me America Is Great

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