Please Stop Telling Me America Is Great

Der Alte · Jul 1, 2019

Ringo84 said:
My point was that for all the non-Jewish people whining about how "offended" they presume Jewish people are for using the apt term 'concentration camp', there are plenty of Jewish people who know a concentration camp when they see it!

Being Jewish does not mean they recognize a concentration camp.

Fragile white people being fearful of brown people is absolutely not a reason to turn people away at the border or to put them in concentration camps. America has always been - or at least marketed itself as - a place where we take the "tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free".
Ringo

Blatantly false over generalization. Absolutely nobody, including POTUS, has said any brown people are barred from immigrating. My wife is an immigrant, my brother was married to an immigrant.
But that does not mean we open our borders and let 1000s of people pour in without any control.
They want to immigrate do it the right way just as we have to do to go to another country. I have been on 2 cruises recently guess what I had to go though customs and show my passport.
Maybe if that side would start dealing honestly with the issues and refrain from inflammatory rhetoric we might have some meaningful dialogue.

Ringo84 · Jul 1, 2019

Der Alter said:
Being Jewish does not mean they recognize a concentration camp.

Blatantly false over generalization. Absolutely nobody, including POTUS, has said any brown people are barred from immigrating. My wife is an immigrant, my brother was married to an immigrant.
But that does not mean we open our borders and let 1000s of people pour in without any control.
They want to immigrate do it the right way just as we have to do to go to another country. I have been on 2 cruises recently guess what I had to go though customs and show my passport.
Maybe if that side would start dealing honestly with the issues and refrain from inflammatory rhetoric we might have some meaningful dialogue.

Several things:

1. I said nothing about "open borders". You did.
2. It's hard for people to """immigrate legally""" when the law is deliberately changed to shut off the legal ways to immigrate - which is exactly what this regime has done.
3. It's not "inflammatory rhetoric" to call a concentration camp a concentration camp.

Someone's not dealing with this issue honestly, but it's not me.
Ringo

SummerMadness · Jul 1, 2019

WherevertheWindblows said:
Nice air conditioning units on those tents, I bet San Francisco's homeless wouldn't mind something that nice.

San Francisco is not a desert climate. Moreover, it's quite sad when inhumane conditions are complimented because it was not the most inhumane possible. It's like saying US prisons are great because they don't use rack devices.

SummerMadness · Jul 1, 2019

Der Alter said:
Being Jewish does not mean they recognize a concentration camp.

Blatantly false over generalization. Absolutely nobody, including POTUS, has said any brown people are barred from immigrating. My wife is an immigrant, my brother was married to an immigrant.
But that does not mean we open our borders and let 1000s of people pour in without any control.
They want to immigrate do it the right way just as we have to do to go to another country. I have been on 2 cruises recently guess what I had to go though customs and show my passport.
Maybe if that side would start dealing honestly with the issues and refrain from inflammatory rhetoric we might have some meaningful dialogue.

People have the right to seek asylum. Sticking people in inhumane conditions and deliberately separating families where you hold a child ransom saying the parent cannot see them unless they abandon asylum is beyond despicable. You can try to talk your way around this talking about people waiting in line and such, but that's what this country is doing alongside putting children in concentration camps. They haven't even reunited all the families they separated; everything else is garbage spin; children were deliberately taken away from their parents and lost without a care. That's what happens when those in power consider a group of people to be less than human. That's what happens when you describe some countries with expletives because they are people of color, and then talk about how you want people coming from white countries. I believe those attitudes can only be described as racist in nature and have not been seen so openly since the early 20th century.

Der Alte · Jul 1, 2019

Ringo84 said:
Several things:
1. I said nothing about "open borders". You did.

Your posts imply it.

2. It's hard for people to """immigrate legally""" when the law is deliberately changed to shut off the legal ways to immigrate - which is exactly what this regime has done.

Prove it?

3. It's not "inflammatory rhetoric" to call a concentration camp a concentration camp.

Lots of folks have no idea what a concentration camp is. If we do not detain these illegal immigrants at the border what shall we do with them?

Someone's not dealing with this issue honestly, but it's not me.
Ringo

You haven't made you case yet.

WherevertheWindblows · Jul 1, 2019

Ringo84 said:
It's good that you are sending donations and you want to change the rules. The soap thing is completely ridiculous and it's hard for me to imagine anyone supporting that.

But I'm still strongly of the opinion that kids (or anyone else, for that matter) should have never been put there in the first place.
Ringo

Its a shelter, kids have to be watched over, others are even kidnapping children and renting them to come over, they are doing DNA tests and some are with traffickers, and its understandable given the circumstances, especially if people in those numbers are going to flood the border. Where are they going to go when they are coming in the tens of thousands? Thats like 100 people showing up at my home and when they all get inside some other dude shows up and complains about the cramped quarters and that my fridge doesn't hold enough food for everyone who made a surprise drop at my door. My accommodations are not adequate but neither are they coming invited. So some might opt for the hay barn temporarily, you have to do what you have to do. It beats how the homeless of our own country are living in San Francisco.

Obama DHS secretary comments on the Trump administration dealing with this in this 2 minute video
Trump War Room on Twitter If you know of a better place to find this video let me know, I cant find it on Youtube or elsewhere

hislegacy · Jul 1, 2019

SummerMadness said:
The article is related to calling America the "greatest." Many Americans talk about America being the greatest nation, but using what measure? Are they the first in all those categories? Or are there countries that are ranked higher (i.e., "greater to greatest")?

I can find measures that show America is the greatest.

Oh, I wrote about them.

carlv_52 · Jul 1, 2019

hislegacy said:
I can find measures that show America is the greatest.

Oh, I wrote about them.

There's a difference between loving one's country and claiming it is the best in the world when the numbers don't support the latter contention.

We all love our home, but only the truly delusion thinks that their 45 year old split level ranch with a termite problem is better than a multimillion dollar mansion.

America has a lot they can improve on. We can do better with income inequality, we can do better with poverty, we can do better with access to healthcare, we can do better with education in math and science, etc.

The real danger is that we stop LEARNING FROM OTHERS. If we think we are tops then we stop learning how we can do things better. At that point we are truly not worthy of our mythology.

Pommer · Jul 1, 2019

WherevertheWindblows said:
Its a shelter, kids have to be watched over, others are even kidnapping children and renting them to come over, they are doing DNA tests and some are with traffickers, its understandable given the circumstances…

Are you seriously suggesting that human traffickers willingly cross our border with their “merchandise” and go through thorough background checks on the off chance that they’ll somehow make it and be able to sell their “wares” at a later date?

Or were you trying to imply that we only cage children to “protect them”!?

SummerMadness · Jul 1, 2019

hislegacy said:
I can find measures that show America is the greatest.

Oh, I wrote about them.

Where are your references and comparisons to other countries? Provide the references, it would be great addition to the discussion.

WherevertheWindblows · Jul 1, 2019

SummerMadness said:
San Francisco is not a desert climate. Moreover, it's quite sad when inhumane conditions are complimented because it was not the most inhumane possible. It's like saying US prisons are great because they don't use rack devices.

There is nothing wrong with temporary air conditioned tents especially if San Francisco is not a desert climate because they are not for those in San Francisco.

Your comparison is ridiculous. If you want to volunteer to put the hundreds of thousands coming in up in Hilton like hotels that would be great just pick up the bill and stop whining

LostMarbels · Jul 1, 2019

Ringo84 said:
They just passed a $4.5 billion package of aid for the camps. I personally think that's not anywhere near enough (they should be working to yank CBP funding so that the camps are forced to close, and funding isn't an issue when you hire hateful racists in CBP), but it's a big start.

AOC and several others toured the camps and reported on the deplorable conditions there.

These examples represent 100% more than anything Republicans, who seem to support concentration camps, are doing.
Ringo

And bingo... You finally speak the truth. Obstruct their funding so they're forced to shut down and let the illegal aliens in. You finally speak the truth these so-called Obama era concentration camps are intended to strong-arm and force our government fold under the pressure

you're going to flat-out come out and say that they need to be denied resources and funding and then you're going to come out and blame someone else that they don't have resources and funding.

You really think someone's buying this

Ringo84 · Jul 1, 2019

Der Alter said:
Your posts imply it.

These are my views on immigration:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Prove it?

Sure thing!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3217240a539_story.html?utm_term=.08df85c6b348

President Trump considers new rule to dramatically limit asylum eligibility - CNNPolitics

Trump Administration Upends the Lives of Asylum-Seekers in So-Called Anti-Fraud Crackdown

Trump weighs plan to choke off asylum for Central Americans

Lots of folks have no idea what a concentration camp is. If we do not detain these illegal immigrants at the border what shall we do with them?

I know a concentration camp when I see one, and these camps fit the bill.

I don't give a flip if they're """illegal""". You don't put them in concentration camps. Period.

You haven't made you case yet.

Oh OK. I'll take that under all the advisement it warrants: Homer Simpson Trash GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY
Ringo

Ringo84 · Jul 1, 2019

WherevertheWindblows said:
Its a shelter, kids have to be watched over, others are even kidnapping children and renting them to come over, they are doing DNA tests and some are with traffickers, and its understandable given the circumstances, especially if people in those numbers are going to flood the border. Where are they going to go when they are coming in the tens of thousands? Thats like 100 people showing up at my home and when they all get inside some other dude shows up and complains about the cramped quarters and that my fridge doesn't hold enough food for everyone who made a surprise drop at my door. My accommodations are not adequate but neither are they coming invited. So some might opt for the hay barn temporarily, you have to do what you have to do. It beats how the homeless of our own country are living in San Francisco.

Obama DHS secretary comments on the Trump administration dealing with this in this 2 minute video
Trump War Room on Twitter If you know of a better place to find this video let me know, I cant find it on Youtube or elsewhere

Nope...it's not "understandable" by any stretch of the imagination that we would put kids in concentration camps and then justify it with a lot of "B-b-b-b-b-but they're illegal" sputtering.

Kids don't get treated this way. I don't care if they're supposedly """illegal""" or not. Our country is plenty large enough to accommodate these people. Only fragile white people think that we're "full".
Ringo

Ringo84 · Jul 1, 2019

LostMarbels said:
And bingo... You finally speak the truth. Obstruct their funding so they're forced to shut down and let the illegal aliens in. You finally speak the truth these so-called Obama era concentration camps are intended to strong-arm and force our government fold under the pressure

you're going to flat-out come out and say that they need to be denied resources and funding and then you're going to come out and blame someone else that they don't have resources and funding.

You really think someone's buying this

Not providing adequate food and water, or soap and toothbrushes to children is not a question of funding. It's a question of humanity.

Don't really care whether someone "buys" it or not. If CBP is cruel to children, then they need to be routed out by the root. Period.
Ringo

Aldebaran · Jul 1, 2019

timothyu said:
Government run system and our tax rates are lower than the US's.

Somebody pays somewhere along the line.

LostMarbels · Jul 1, 2019

Ringo84 said:
Not providing adequate food and water, or soap and toothbrushes to children is not a question of funding. It's a question of humanity.

Don't really care whether someone "buys" it or not. If CBP is cruel to children, then they need to be routed out by the root. Period.
Ringo

I just want to know how you believe that the obstruction of these necessities going to these children is somehow helping these children.

How were these children benefited by aoc's actions for example?

WherevertheWindblows · Jul 1, 2019

Ringo84 said:
Nope...it's not "understandable" by any stretch of the imagination that we would put kids in concentration camps and then justify it with a lot of "B-b-b-b-b-but they're illegal" sputtering.

Sure it justifiable, we put our own citizens up in schools in certain areas when hurricanes strike, so whether its illegals coming over and making due or our own citizens when the situation calls for it, neither situation is optimal for either. For our own citizens we should be better prepared but schools suffice because the building is sturdier.

Kids don't get treated this way.

They could leave the children outside but why?

I don't care if they're supposedly """illegal""" or not.

They aren't "supposedly", they are.

Our country is plenty large enough to accommodate these people. Only fragile white people think that we're "full".

American citizens have various skin colors and many colors of Americans do not want the open borders on the agenda you are pushing.

Ringo

Hi Ringo ! ^_^

Ringo84 · Jul 1, 2019

WherevertheWindblows said:
Sure it justifiable, we put our own citizens up in schools in certain areas when hurricanes strike, so whether its illegals coming over and making due or our own citizens when the situation calls for it, neither situation is optimal for either. For our own citizens we should be better prepared but schools suffice because the building is sturdier.

Sheltering people from a hurricane is...not the same thing as putting kids in concentration camps.

They could leave the children outside but why?

Because their kids deserve the same chance for a good life as they do?

They aren't "supposedly", they are.

So?

American citizens have various skin colors and many colors of Americans do not want the open borders on the agenda you are pushing.

Assuming that's true, they're wrong. This country is plenty large enough to accommodate the people who flee here.
Ringo

WherevertheWindblows · Jul 1, 2019

Pommer said:
Are you seriously suggesting that human traffickers willingly cross our border with their “merchandise” and go through thorough background checks on the off chance that they’ll somehow make it and be able to sell their “wares” at a later date?

Or were you trying to imply that we only cage children to “protect them”!?

Missed your post back there.

DHS secretary Jeh Johnson explains the separations within it on the video link I posted, which is why I posted it.

And when I mentioned the traffickers just switch it with the kidnapping children to enter with that. The DNA testing applying to the kidnappers or renters of children not the coyotes or traffickers.

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