Questions about the timing of the thousand years

DavidPT

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1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.



Why can't this same concept apply to the kingdom of God? The analogy being---the perfect being the kingdom of God being seen in all of it's glory. The part that should be done away with is how we are presently experiencing this same kingdom.
 
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Dave L

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1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.



Why can't this same concept apply to the kingdom of God? The analogy being---the perfect being the kingdom of God being seen in all of it's glory. The part that should be done away with is how we are presently experiencing this same kingdom.
This happens on the last day.
 
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miamited

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On the last day, Jesus delivers this present spiritual kingdom up to the Father in the New Heavens and earth.

Hi dave,

As I understand the Scriptures, on the last day every one stands before God to be judged. God will then open the books in which all the deeds of our lives have been recorded. However, there is a second book and that is the Lamb's Book of Life. There will also be names recorded in that book. Those whose names are found in the Lamb's Book of Life will not be condemned for their sin, but forgiven because they have believed God and trusted in His Son in order to gain the eternal life that God predestined before the foundations of the universe were set in place, that all who would believe in His Son would not perish but have eternal life.

It's not some spiritual event. It will be a real life event in which we will all be called before God's throne of authority and righteousness. There the wheat and the tares will be separated by those who have faith in God and those who don't. After all have been judged, and those who have refused God His righteous place in their lives are cast into the pit, those who remain will see the great city of Zion prepared and adorned as a bride coming down out of heaven and there will be a great time of rejoicing and praising God for He alone is worthy. Selah!!

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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_Dave_

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There is only one kingdom and it's not the millennial kingdom.

Wrong. There are two kingdoms during and after the end times: The kingdom (small K) where Jesus reigns during the Millennium, and the Kingdom of Heaven (God). Not the same. Very different.
 
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Dave L

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Hi dave,

As I understand the Scriptures, on the last day every one stands before God to be judged. God will then open the books in which all the deeds of our lives have been recorded. However, there is a second book and that is the Lamb's Book of Life. There will also be names recorded in that book. Those whose names are found in the Lamb's Book of Life will not be condemned for their sin, but forgiven because they have believed God and trusted in His Son in order to gain the eternal life that God predestined before the foundations of the universe were set in place, that all who would believe in His Son would not perish but have eternal life.

It's not some spiritual event. It will be a real life event in which we will all be called before God's throne of authority and righteousness. There the wheat and the tares will be separated by those who have faith in God and those who don't. After all have been judged, and those who have refused God His righteous place in their lives are cast into the pit, those who remain will see the great city of Zion prepared and adorned as a bride coming down out of heaven and there will be a great time of rejoicing and praising God for He alone is worthy. Selah!!

God bless,
In Christ, ted
This is symbolism from Revelation. What the symbols represent will happen. But the symbols will not appear.
 
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Dave L

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Wrong. There are two kingdoms during and after the end times: The kingdom (small K) where Jesus reigns during the Millennium, and the Kingdom of Heaven (God). Not the same. Very different.
Pure conjecture with zero scripture support. Be careful not to add to Revelation.
 
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miamited

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This is symbolism from Revelation. What the symbols represent will happen. But the symbols will not appear.

Hi dave,

Alright! You'll have to follow what you believe in your heart to be true, as will I.

God bless you.
In Christ, ted
 
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Dave L

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Hi dave,

Alright! You'll have to follow what you believe in your heart to be true, as will I.

God bless you.
In Christ, ted
Be careful not to add to Revelation. Physical kingdom concepts do exactly that.
 
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DavidPT

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Hi dave,

As I understand the Scriptures, on the last day every one stands before God to be judged. God will then open the books in which all the deeds of our lives have been recorded. However, there is a second book and that is the Lamb's Book of Life. There will also be names recorded in that book. Those whose names are found in the Lamb's Book of Life will not be condemned for their sin, but forgiven because they have believed God and trusted in His Son in order to gain the eternal life that God predestined before the foundations of the universe were set in place, that all who would believe in His Son would not perish but have eternal life.

It's not some spiritual event. It will be a real life event in which we will all be called before God's throne of authority and righteousness. There the wheat and the tares will be separated by those who have faith in God and those who don't. After all have been judged, and those who have refused God His righteous place in their lives are cast into the pit, those who remain will see the great city of Zion prepared and adorned as a bride coming down out of heaven and there will be a great time of rejoicing and praising God for He alone is worthy. Selah!!

God bless,
In Christ, ted


Let me ask this then. If the saints have already put on immortality at the 2nd coming, and that Revelation 20:11-15 indicates it is only the dead standing in front of God, how did immortal saints die again in order to be standing among the dead at the GWTJ? Especially if one concludes the GWTJ occurs a thousand years and a little season post the 2nd coming?
 
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mkgal1

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what can and cannot occur during the thousand years. For example. If the thousand years have been underway for the past 2000 years, the text in Rev 20 indicates satan can't deceive the nations during the thousand years.
Wording the question this way does help. I would answer that Satan is no longer deceiving nations as he was prior to the cross. As Alan Nairne is quoted as explaining:

"Up until that time the Gentile nations and empires – Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome had been in bondage to idolatry. They were completely under the dominion of Satan. But following the ministry of Christ, culminating in his death, burial, resurrection and ascension to the right hand of God, and the pouring out of the promised Holy Spirit, the whole Roman Empire was evangelised within a generation. The effect upon society provoked reaction" – Revelation 20: Amillennial Viewpoint (Part 1)

  • These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also (Acts 17:6).
Paul could write to the Romans (10:18): “Their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.”


I think a counter question I'd have is, "Do you believe that Christ defeated Satan on the cross?" Because that's the Am belief - that the binding of Satan represents the victory of Christ over the powers of darkness accomplished at the cross. It's also believed that Christ's victory is forever (so placing a literal time to it doesn't make sense in that context).

When Jesus told the parable of the strong man in Luke 11:14-23 (after "taking something" that belonged to that 'strong man' in casting the demons out of the man - recorded in Matthew 8:28 & Luke 8:26-37) can you see how satan was bound - overtaken by One that's stronger - at least at that time?

Luke 11:14-23 ~ When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his possessions are secure. 22 But as soon as a stronger one attacks and overpowers him, the stronger one takes away the armor he had trusted and divides the stolen goods.
 
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Dave L

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Let me ask this then. If the saints have already put on immortality at the 2nd coming, and that Revelation 20:11-15 indicates it is only the dead standing in front of God, how did immortal saints die again in order to be standing among the dead at the GWTJ? Especially if one concludes the GWTJ occurs a thousand years and a little season post the 2nd coming?
If you view the end times without a physical millennial kingdom, you will understand what Jesus taught about the spiritual nature of the kingdom. Everything will line up without all the confusion caused by adding a physical kingdom to Revelation.
 
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_Dave_

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Pure conjecture with zero scripture support. Be careful not to add to Revelation.
I'll have to elaborate:

I emphasize (small K) kingdom because anyone who rules from a throne is thought to be ruling a kingdom (small K). But the term Millennial Kingdom is never used of Christ ruling on the Throne of David, because some people can easily confuse it with the heavenly Kingdom -- as we've seen so much of here.

And, like I said, there are 47 references in Scripture to the physical, earthly reign of David over his kingdom, and then to Christ physically reigning on David's throne during the Millennium.

Basically, I would recommend whenever you wish to offer verses in support of your amillennial theory you decide if it applies to the heavenly Kingdom of God, or to Chrst's physical, earthly reign on the Throne of David (which is mentioned numerous times in Scripture).
 
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Dave L

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I'll have to elaborate:

I emphasize (small K) kingdom because anyone who rules from a throne is thought to be ruling a kingdom (small K). But the term Millennial Kingdom is never used of Christ ruling on the Throne of David, because some people can easily confuse it with the heavenly Kingdom -- as we've seen so much of here.

And, like I said, there are 47 references in Scripture to the physical, earthly reign of David over his kingdom, and then to Christ physically reigning on David's throne during the Millennium.

Basically, I would recommend whenever you wish to offer verses in support of your amillennial theory you decide if it applies to the heavenly Kingdom of God, or to Chrst's physical, earthly reign on the Throne of David (which is mentioned numerous times in Scripture).
It's not scriptural no matter how you dress it up.
 
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mkgal1

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If you view the end times without a physical millennial kingdom, you will understand what Jesus taught about the spiritual nature of the kingdom. Everything will line up without all the confusion caused by adding a physical kingdom to Revelation.
I agree. I never was convinced of a "physical millennial kingdom" (personally) - so that wasn't difficult to let go of - but that was the only teaching I was familiar with. Once one of the "cards" is removed from this house of cards belief system.....the rest just naturally comes tumbling down. These beliefs all prop each other up (but they're not truly based on the whole testimony of Scripture).
 
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Semper-Fi

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But the millennial kingdom doesn't fit in this present world. Jesus says his kingdom is not part of it. And it doesn't fit in the world to come. It is everlasting without sin, not 1000 years with sin.

Then you take away from rev. where it says:
The kingdoms of [this world] are [become] the
kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ.
 
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DavidPT

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If you view the end times without a physical millennial kingdom, you will understand what Jesus taught about the spiritual nature of the kingdom. Everything will line up without all the confusion caused by adding a physical kingdom to Revelation.


Even if the thousand years were to happen in this age, it still wouldn't make sense to me that everyone is at the GWTJ standing in front of God. The dead in Christ rise first, then those still alive get caught up together with them. As to the latter, they don't ever physically die but instead are transformed into instant immortality. At this point, the dead in Christ who rise first, and those saved who are still alive, have put on instant immortality, and that the GWTJ hasn't even occurred yet.

How do all of these then die in order to end up standing in front of God with the rest of the dead at the GWTJ? Even if the GWTJ were to occur within hours of the 1 Thessalonian 4 fulfillment, only the dead are at that judgment and that these in 1 Thessalonian 4 are no longer dead but alive forever more. Maybe it's this chronology matter I keep bringing up that tends to cause me to continue reasoning in this manner? But if I disregarded chronology altogether, how would I be able to logically distinguish 1st coming events with that of 2nd coming events, so on and so on?
 
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DavidPT

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Wording the question this way does help. I would answer that Satan is no longer deceiving nations as he was prior to the cross. As Alan Nairne is quoted as explaining:

"Up until that time the Gentile nations and empires – Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome had been in bondage to idolatry. They were completely under the dominion of Satan. But following the ministry of Christ, culminating in his death, burial, resurrection and ascension to the right hand of God, and the pouring out of the promised Holy Spirit, the whole Roman Empire was evangelised within a generation. The effect upon society provoked reaction" – Revelation 20: Amillennial Viewpoint (Part 1)

  • These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also (Acts 17:6).
Paul could write to the Romans (10:18): “Their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.”


I think a counter question I'd have is, "Do you believe that Christ defeated Satan on the cross?" Because that's the Am belief - that the binding of Satan represents the victory of Christ over the powers of darkness accomplished at the cross. It's also believed that Christ's victory is forever (so placing a literal time to it doesn't make sense in that context).

When Jesus told the parable of the strong man in Luke 11:14-23 (after "taking something" that belonged to that 'strong man' in casting the demons out of the man - recorded in Matthew 8:28 & Luke 8:26-37) can you see how satan was bound - overtaken by One that's stronger - at least at that time?

Luke 11:14-23 ~ When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his possessions are secure. 22 But as soon as a stronger one attacks and overpowers him, the stronger one takes away the armor he had trusted and divides the stolen goods.


Of course He defeated satan on the cross. What some of you are neglecting to take into account though, satan isn't bound indefinetly, he's only bound a thousand years then is loosed a little season. The point being, one then can't apply what thay feel applies to his binding, to also that of when he is loosed.

Since you brought up Luke 11, let's look at that in context then compare to something in Revelation 20:3.

Luke 11:14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.
16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.

Compared with this in Revelation 20:3---that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season

What exactly is that you are seeing in Luke 11:14-22 that you feel supports what I have quoted from Revelation 20:3? Keep in mind, not only does my quote include why he is bound, it also includes the fact he must be loosed. So IOW I'm looking for what you are seeing in Luke 11:14-22 that supports both ideas
brought out in Revelation 20:3 via the quote I submitted from that verse.
 
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eleos1954

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I am a Premillennialist and you are correct, my answer to all 6 questions is no. My son, however, is an Amillennialist and his answers would vary greatly from mine. Amillennialists reject Revelation Chapter 20 - that Christ will have a literal, physical thousand year earthly reign.

Destruction of the Wicked

In 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Paul said that at Christ's second coming the wicked "will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord." And in the symbolic description of Christ going to war against the kings of the earth and their armies, Revelation 19:18 says that the birds of the air will "eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, . . . and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small." From this it's evident that the wicked will be all be slain at Christ's second coming.

The 1,000 year reign with Christ is in heaven not on earth.
 
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mkgal1

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it still wouldn't make sense to me that everyone is at the GWTJ standing in front of God
You don't see it as possible that - when our physical life is up here, that our lives are judged?
The dead in Christ rise first, then those still alive get caught up together with them. As to the latter, they don't ever physically die but instead are transformed into instant immortality
I'll admit - I'm still really wobbly on all this (and I sincerely appreciate the threads you've started and posts you've made as they help me to clarify what I believe - or how to even process what TO believe).

Can this not be an explanation as to what happened when Jesus defeated death on the cross (releasing the saints from Sheol and offering US, believers, eternal ife)?
 
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