(Orthodox) How to interpret these epistle readings?

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Please note that you are in the Eastern Orthodox subforum, and not the debate forum. This thread is for discussion, not for debate, per the SoP.

I've been reading the daily readings from the GOArch website and noticed that yesterday and today's epistle readings are passages from St. Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 4:

Brethren, to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due. And to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness. So also David pronounces a blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not reckon his sin." Is this blessing pronounced only upon the circumcised, or also upon the uncircumcised? We say that faith was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it reckoned to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received circumcision as a sign or seal of the righteousness which he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised and who thus have righteousness reckoned to them, and likewise the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but also follow the example of the faith which our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

Brethren, the promise to Abraham and his descendants, that they should inherit the world, did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. If it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants -- not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all, as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations" -- in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations; as he had been told, "So shall your descendants be." He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead because he was about a hundred years old, or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb. No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was "reckoned to him as righteousness." But the words, "it was reckoned to him," were written not for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be reckoned to us who believe in him that raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
How does the Orthodox church interpret and teach on these passages? They're frequently used by protestants to support the doctrine of attaining salvation by means of faith alone, and I must say that I still read them in this way, being only 6 months a member of the Orthodox Church. Can someone who is wiser provide an interpretation? Thanks!
 

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The Epistle to the Romans is a systematic refutation of all the tenets of the Judaizers. "Works" is shorthand for "works of the Law", which is to say "the ritual observance of the Torah as the means of being justified before God." "Faith" is shorthand for "faith in Christ", which is to say "being united to Christ as the means of being justified before God."

"Works" vs "Faith" is a contrast of two systems. The one system is the Torah, and sees Christ as one more commandment tacked into hundreds of others. The other sees Christ Himself as the entire "system".

St Paul's over all point is to prove to the Judaizers, as well as to their victims, that the Law of Moses is ultimately nothing.
 
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Please note that you are in the Eastern Orthodox subforum, and not the debate forum. This thread is for discussion, not for debate, per the SoP.

I've been reading the daily readings from the GOArch website and noticed that yesterday and today's epistle readings are passages from St. Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 4:

Brethren, to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due. And to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness. So also David pronounces a blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not reckon his sin." Is this blessing pronounced only upon the circumcised, or also upon the uncircumcised? We say that faith was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it reckoned to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received circumcision as a sign or seal of the righteousness which he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised and who thus have righteousness reckoned to them, and likewise the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but also follow the example of the faith which our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

Brethren, the promise to Abraham and his descendants, that they should inherit the world, did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. If it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants -- not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all, as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations" -- in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations; as he had been told, "So shall your descendants be." He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead because he was about a hundred years old, or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb. No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was "reckoned to him as righteousness." But the words, "it was reckoned to him," were written not for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be reckoned to us who believe in him that raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
How does the Orthodox church interpret and teach on these passages? They're frequently used by protestants to support the doctrine of attaining salvation by means of faith alone, and I must say that I still read them in this way, being only 6 months a member of the Orthodox Church. Can someone who is wiser provide an interpretation? Thanks!

Orthodox do not normally oppose works and faith. St. James talks about this.

I would suggest reading the comments in the Orthodox Study Bible about this.

There is also a big green book giving the daily Scripture readings from the NKJV, with commentary by the Fathers, but presently I can think of neither the author nor the title.
 
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All4Christ

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Orthodox do not normally oppose works and faith. St. James talks about this.

I would suggest reading the comments in the Orthodox Study Bible about this.

There is also a big green book giving the daily Scripture readings from the NKJV, with commentary by the Fathers, but presently I can think of neither the author nor the title.
The green book is really helpful. It’s a hefty price tag but it is something to use for life. Fair warning - it is very small print.

The Bible and the Holy Fathers for Orthodox

9383F56A-F38B-47B9-A787-2542E6E4494D.jpeg

https://www.amazon.com/dp/096225360X/ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share_nodl
 
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ArmyMatt

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Please note that you are in the Eastern Orthodox subforum, and not the debate forum. This thread is for discussion, not for debate, per the SoP.

I've been reading the daily readings from the GOArch website and noticed that yesterday and today's epistle readings are passages from St. Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 4:

Brethren, to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due. And to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness. So also David pronounces a blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not reckon his sin." Is this blessing pronounced only upon the circumcised, or also upon the uncircumcised? We say that faith was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it reckoned to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received circumcision as a sign or seal of the righteousness which he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised and who thus have righteousness reckoned to them, and likewise the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but also follow the example of the faith which our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

Brethren, the promise to Abraham and his descendants, that they should inherit the world, did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. If it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants -- not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all, as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations" -- in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations; as he had been told, "So shall your descendants be." He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead because he was about a hundred years old, or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb. No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was "reckoned to him as righteousness." But the words, "it was reckoned to him," were written not for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be reckoned to us who believe in him that raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
How does the Orthodox church interpret and teach on these passages? They're frequently used by protestants to support the doctrine of attaining salvation by means of faith alone, and I must say that I still read them in this way, being only 6 months a member of the Orthodox Church. Can someone who is wiser provide an interpretation? Thanks!

the only thing I can think to add is this shows the limits of the Law, which can only point out when you sin. grace actually restores and heals. this is why Abraham was declared righteous prior to his circumcision.
 
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AMM

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"Faith" is shorthand for "faith in Christ", which is to say "being united to Christ as the means of being justified before God."
It seems like the difference between the Orthodox interpretation and the protestant one is not so much in whether we are saved by faith or works, but by what "saved/justified" means and what "faith" does. Specifically: is salvation a legal declaration, or a union with Christ? The Orthodox would say it's union with Christ, and the interpretation flows from that union.

To read St Paul's epistles in their proper light, read Hebrews. Hebrews sums up very neatly what most of St Paul's epistles are saying.
Does the Orthodox Church hold to the belief that Hebrews is written by St. Paul, or to another apostle?

I would suggest reading the comments in the Orthodox Study Bible about this.
Thanks - I don't have all of my stuff unpacked since graduating college and so I forgot to even check the OSB. I'll go check it now.

The green book is really helpful. It’s a hefty price tag but it is something to use for life. Fair warning - it is very small print.

The Bible and the Holy Fathers for Orthodox
That looks really good - thanks for the recommendation. I think it's too pricey for me to get right now, but I will add it to my list of books to obtain and save up for it!

the only thing I can think to add is this shows the limits of the Law, which can only point out when you sin. grace actually restores and heals. this is why Abraham was declared righteous prior to his circumcision.
The OSB (which I have now pulled out of storage) says something similar:
"The law only brings about wrath (4:15). Why? Its purpose is not to save, but to make man aware of his sin or transgressions. True righteousness is based on God's promise (v. 14) and is received by faith. The righteous are those who receive God's promise in faith and not those of the law (v. 14), that is, those who are merely physical offspring of Abraham. The true descendants of Abraham are the believers, for he is the father of all who believe, whether Jew or Gentile."
 
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Monk Brendan

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Does the Orthodox Church hold to the belief that Hebrews is written by St. Paul, or to another apostle?

The liturgical protocol for announcing a reading from Hebrews is to attribute it to St. Paul.

It's always sounded Johannine to me, but it's not a matter I sleep over.
 
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All4Christ

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That looks really good - thanks for the recommendation. I think it's too pricey for me to get right now, but I will add it to my list of books to obtain and save up for it!
St John Chrysostom’s commentaries are often referenced in that book. They are all available for free on CCEL library. They are worth keeping bookmarked on your browser!
 
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All4Christ

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Yep, definitely small print - lots of good content though! It’s be interesting to see how thick the book would be if it was normal size print....
You weren't kidding!

TaFAstk-0ql6OoSdgNSx-4PWVcIzClBn0UQ5MBsnNMQURkzZ2DuF7KN12kaNB4BpJ7gbLsnbsxBU-9bI8LC71D8kll4xZJu27x4XOqiBErjyLjysq03WFmEsJid4G7NhVp4BLwFa7al7z4IFQxjpXBGTo-91HViZ4IOGOzhFcBqHT9sppNa742LF2a3wy3U7MQDe5mBapa8PukYBm1vvj-7BP4wDfd8Hr_TiWCm-3RxMZOxi79Z9BASPhioJvI6yCUgOf24Bfo_FPAMt_baSizHfBkQJDFvGiK7M0vibkaO7KHWFonsdsUtzhABpEHmcMvnYX_3AoWEuIbuURBzq5OTn4V9ZQ1VXfgTQkH8E6JTg6Syelg4MrvMp5puyVJj8HhBpBqOxkwAWmvvij7JFNT6x05Ikql296b9m4LGdhkQrLHO_ay_o6nDNikZ80oEWkB62UlOLFehSdDmILWVsKuvkCE6nm4msfrkVKZwea0a9zX8QCPK7CEgBA6sqHQpvfADWcezvEII9_CTVvpN2i7hDmhi04hdDLXZ9pZDgeRB003I3exhjknq9_qveONukzGySvzyQL47o-vAZ7rACo1if_pqfPTCq3Sb6gnXzLyWS5QVI0SJgdLbgsADvO83ZMsBbDv9fRVJpOdrV24wyvhY_qCtFuHRh=w653-h882-no
 
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