Why are most Christians so accepting of magic

Cis.jd · Jun 28, 2019

Jason0047 said:
If indeed innocent people were being selected for no good reason to be slaughtered as a witch is obviously not the same thing as my claim that movies that promote the sin of witchcraft are not harmless (and they can influence you to do witchcraft yourself and or to do other sins).

First of all, I am not claiming to burn any witches at the stake today. Again, I said to you before I believe in the New Covenant's teachings on "Non-resistance" (as taught by Jesus). This means I do not believe in taking up violence of any kind while I am living out my faith here upon this Earth. So the comparison you make is not accurate.

Second, I realize that many directors, actors, film creators, etc. are not Satanists and nor do they practice real witchcraft themselves. I never said that they did so. I said that they are of the world and have worldly and sinful thinking because most of them do not profess to have a saving faith in Jesus Christ and in following Him.

Three, actors, and directors who make big budge Hollywood films are rich. So god is their money, and not the Lord Jesus Christ. Even if they claimed to be Christian, 1 Timothy 6 warns against those who think gain is godliness. Believers are exhorted to flee being rich and to chase after righteousness, instead. Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. The actors, and directors of this world (who are not Christian and not saved) are bad trees. They cannot bring forth good fruit by the works that they do for a real Christian's life.

Four, the concepts and ideas behind the movies that the directors and actors make are sinful or they are sometimes demonic ideas because the film creators think in sinful and worldly ways. They are not interested in serving Jesus Christ and nor are they interested in following His good ways, but they are interested in promoting cool amazing looking films that has some sinful things within them. Sometimes these sins are big in movies, and other times they are more subtle and small.

Five, was there ever a movie that you refused to watch that was too sick and disgusting? That is because they are pushing a particular sin that you don't like in your face. Sure, the sin did not actually happen in real life, but they are promoting sin that you can recognize in real life by their fictional work.

Six, you don't think it is fake when you are watching a movie. The whole point is to escape and think it is real temporarily. So the sins they are pushing upon you are real to you in that moment of time. Thus, they can influence you. A child can start to say swear words from a movie he thinks is cool. A man can touch to a scenes which promote scantily clad women or nude women in movies. They talk of adultery and fornication (sex before marriage) is almost common place in movies. So the concepts and ideas are demonic and can lead people to against what the Bible says if they are a new Christian and they don't know their Bible yet. I grew up watching movies, and my friends and I used to quote from them. Now, I don't quote from them because those quotes are sinful. Moving quoting promotes pride, sexual immorality, etc. I know the influence movies can have on people. My friends and I practically worshiped films because we would be talking and play acting the scenes of our favorite movies. Do you think we cared about the sins in those films? No. At that time of my life, I was of the world and sinful so it was not a problem for me to view that junk and to love it.

Anyways, I say this all in love and with the hope that someone coming across this thread may see where I am coming from with the Bible.

May you please be well (even though we disagree over the Bible strongly).

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

No, the context is the same it's the results that are different. You are still doing the same thing which is accusing someone based on your ideologies which is all rooted from a lack of knowledge. You, not voicing out for their execution just makes you a "lesser evil" with a much more updated form of reasoning from them - but at the end of it all you are exhibiting the same extreme views in where any form of content art that isn't christian is just automatically bad.

Seven, Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life, and not many. So when you say that many are turned off by Christianity that I promote from the Bible (See again: 1 John 2:15-17), I am not surprised that they are turned off.

And this is a form christianity that dishonors christ: "They walk away not because what I am saying it's because "they are not as good as me.. i read the Bible so i'm always right". This is what I've said to you in the beginning, you have to be careful on how you represent christianity because what you think is promoting God is actually just you enforcing your bad theology and then tagging God on it so that you can claim that it has the greatest credibility.

This is why people have left christianity, it isn't because "they are evil" and lack the "great qualities God gave you" it's just you've given this impression that Jesus is an insecure and horrible god to worship.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 28, 2019

Cis.jd said:
No, the context is the same it's the results that are different. You are still doing the same thing which is accusing someone based on your ideologies which is all rooted from a lack of knowledge. You, not voicing out for their execution just makes you a "lesser evil" with a much more updated form of reasoning from them - but at the end of it all you are exhibiting the same extreme views in where any form of content art that isn't christian is just automatically bad.

And this is a form christianity that dishonors christ: "They walk away not because what I am saying it's because "they are not as good as me.. i read the Bible so i'm always right". This is what I've said to you in the beginning, you have to be careful on how you represent christianity because what you think is promoting God is actually just you enforcing your bad theology and then tagging God on it so that you can claim that it has the greatest credibility.

The problem with Christians such as yourself is that you exhibit a form of narcism in where all reason, facts, and logic are so beneath you because of this belief that you "know him more" than the person saying you are wrong. So anything that you don't understand or just don't like is evil. A sin. something that God is against. This is why people have left christianity, it isn't because "they are evil" and lack the "great qualities God gave you" it's just you've given this impression that Jesus is an insecure and horrible god to worship.

I made some really great points that you are not addressing which included a very important passage from the Bible (i.e. 1 John 2:15-17). So I am moving on from your replies because you are seeking to make it more about me instead of instead of discussing the points I made and or addressing the passage I provided.

In any event, I love you in Jesus Christ.

May God's goodness be upon you.

Cis.jd · Jun 29, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I made some really great points that you are not addressing which included a very important passage from the Bible (i.e. 1 John 2:15-17). So I am moving on from your replies because you are seeking to make it more about me instead of instead of discussing the points I made and or addressing the passage I provided.

In any event, I love you in Jesus Christ.

May God's goodness be upon you.

I have addressed all your points in the shortest way, including your referencing of 1 Jn which is all you building this ideology from poorly taught theology. What your views are is making God look so small that he is competing for attention against the "world views" etc.

"Not loving the world" doesn't mean we are not allowed to enjoy forms of art or entertainment even though it has no Christian message. We are not to love the world over him in a sense that we end up being blinded or negatively influenced by such materialistic views that we shut out our faith or spirituality; this is what the verse means. But going to sit down, watch a movie or read a book of fairy tales or just having fun in life - isn't breaking any commandments.

Hieronymus · Jun 29, 2019

Strathos said:
Because the 'magic' you see in fiction is... fictional. Imagine that.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.
Seek answers and look for 'demon magicians'.

JacksBratt · Jun 29, 2019

Hank77 said:
LIM admits that he is actually NOT a magician , nor a wizard, and has NO intention of LYING to the audience.
Quote is from Shim's website.

When he won America's Got Talent the judges who are magicians/illusionist themselves said that they did catch some of the moves he uses to do his tricks so his performance was not perfect but close enough for that round. @8:25 mins. in video.

On this video he explains how he ended up in this career rather than a concert pianist.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't see, anywhere where he said that he was not a magician, even mentions the word "wizard" or talks about lying to his audience.

He says he uses "magic" Others will say that they don't do magic but are illusionists. This is not what he says.

Also, Magicians are among the professions that tell you that they are going to lie to you.. then do.. It's all part of the act... to get you to believe something happened that didn't.

He does say that he wants us to "respect the art". I showed another video where he stated that he uses "black arts". Now we see here he wants us to "respect" the art.

Notice, he said that he could not continue piano due to carpel tunnel.. yet watch what he can do with amazing dexterity with his fingers.... really?

At the end, the MC states that he thought he was in Magician "church". You cannot let that slide.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 29, 2019

Cis.jd said:
I have addressed all your points in the shortest way, including your referencing of 1 Jn which is all you building this ideology from poorly taught theology. What your views are is making God look so small that he is competing for attention against the "world views" etc.

"Not loving the world" doesn't mean we are not allowed to enjoy forms of art or entertainment even though it has no Christian message. God isn't that shallow or insecure that he requires us to have him as the only thing needing of our attention that just watching something that isn't real is "satan" related. We are not to love the world over him in a sense that we end up being blinded or negatively influenced by such materialistic views that we shut out our faith or spirituality; this is what the verse means. But going to sit down, watch a movie or read a book of fairy tales or just having fun in life - isn't breaking any commandments. LOL

Not to be offending but your points just made christianity look like it has a stupid god in where we are caught in the middle of a child like slap fight between him and satan.

Sorry, maybe I missed your post, but what I have seen so far, you did not address each of my points with considerable points of your own as to defend your position in return to refute the points I made in Post #194. Also, you are just offering a quick opinion on 1 John 2:15-17. That in no way explains what the passage actually says. How about offering a word for word commentary on the passage?

Cis.jd · Jun 29, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Sorry, maybe I missed your post, but what I have seen so far, you did not address each of my points with considerable points of your own as to defend your position in return to refute the points I made in Post #194. Also, you are just offering a quick opinion on 1 John 2:15-17. That in no way explains what the passage actually says. How about offering a word for word commentary on the passage?

I have addressed your points but my post isn't going be a tl;dr in where I answer it one by one so my posts answers all of it together. The point against everything you are saying is that it was from bad theology and how it ends up creating an image of Jesus that is negative. It's not only answering 1 John but every single argument that you are using.

doctorwho29 · Jun 29, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
I like all the movies, but The Goblet of Fire is my favorite one and it's also my favorite book. I usually refer to it as 'Harry Potter and the Year No One Got a Haircut.' It seems only fitting, considering...

Yeah lol. I think this one honest needed to be two movies. There is so much in that book and they didn't do the best job of cramming it all in

johnlxyz · Jun 29, 2019

Kaon said:
If you dont know your enemy, you cant fight.

If you underestimate your enemy, you endanger those you hope to protect.

If you ignore your enemies, you will perish by them.

This "life" is great, but it's not a joke. The Most High God has told us we have several powerful enemies on this plane of existence as well as in the heavens - and this war will go on until the enemies have been made the footstool of the Word of God Himself. There is a complacency in Christianity that is keeping people in darkness; the leaders aren't helping to prepare and equip properly, because this very topic (of magic) is treated as fiction, not reality. That is why Christians accept it. It is a combination of psychological and psycho-social phenomena that slowly tarnish the spirit.

I thought that this post by Kaon was very relevant. Back in the 1970’s I asked a Presbyterian teacher why there wasn’t more preached about occult power and deception. He gave a stock answer that everything will be revealed eventually. However, by not revealing the evils of sexual immorality and darkside occultism 50 years ago, -- demonic spirits are overwhelming the souls of men, and much spiritual damage has also been done to the church, such as divorces, adultery and the LGBT movement.

About the most important teaching in the bible is to avoid occultism (worshipping other gods) and to avoid adultery – because the bible says that the one true God is a jealous God. Israel’s perversions of sex and the occult led them to be conquered by their enemies, Assyria and Babylon. It’s of the utmost importance for a christian country to go back to its God-fearing ways.

In #187 Kaon said:

Entertaining our brothers and sisters who have experienced a (near) bite also helps us. You can entertain something without accepting it, and it at least prepares you for the possibility should it befall you.
----------------

There’s a warning about helping those with “near bites.”

Galatians 6:1 1Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.

SaintCody777 · Jun 29, 2019

I, too, was also into the Final Fantasy games when I was in my mid-teens. I abandoned it in my later years, though it has nothing to do with conviction by the Holy Spirit. But, when I was recently lures to play into FFVI, the conviction did help to keep me out of it.
But, also, since I'm a newcomer into the Legend of Zelda games, I've looked closely into the magic. The reason why I feel Zelda is OK is for many of the same reasons that the works of English writers, like Narnia, and Lord of the Rings are spiritually safe and even edifying for Christians.
Harry Potter vs. Gandalf | Decent Films - SDG Reviews

As with Narnia and Lord of the Rings, the characters in Zelda, unlike the works like Harry Potter, Buffy, Percy Jackson, or Pirates of the Caribbean, use magic openly as if it was some sort of tool and technology and all that magic is confined to it's own universe with it's own laws, that never had a Biblical history or Revelation.

In contrast, entertainment franchises like Harry Potter, POTC, or Percy Jackson contain lots of magical secrets in our world that is not accessible without some secret spell, like a Jack Sparrow's compass, which at first looked silly for a clumsy pirate, that points to wherever your heart desires. The root word of "occult", means "secret knowledge."

Most if not all of the characters of the Zelda series that cast spells are actually not humans, but a fictional humanoid species called Hylians. This also seperates Zelda from Final Fantasy in addition to stuff like Harry Potter, besides the fact that the religion of Zelda was originally going to be Christianity. Their pointy elf-like ears are made to channel magic and communicate with the Gods. Yes, the Zelda universe has been confirmed to has it's own Gods since A Link to the Past, but the golden goddesses are loosely based off the Christian trinity and their reigns are confined to their own universe, which can never be found in real time or space and never had a revelation from God.

Some Christians who defend stuff like Harry Potter might say, well that's both fantasy and call me a hypocrite for rejecting stuff like Harry Potter and POTC, while also embracing Zelda in addition to Narnia.
C.S. Lewis actually talked about the dangers of using magic in the real world, even if it looked "innocent" and is "white magic." The Bible clearly confirms his sayings that magic like that will get you thrown into hell (Revelation 21:8; Deuteronomy 18:9-14; and Galatians 5:19-21). He was not kidding, especially in the OT.

Hank77 · Jun 29, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I'm sorry, but I couldn't see, anywhere where he said that he was not a magician, even mentions the word "wizard" or talks about lying to his audience.

Where did I say the quote was from? Not the video, did you look on his website?

JacksBratt said:
Notice, he said that he could not continue piano due to carpel tunnel.. yet watch what he can do with amazing dexterity with his fingers.... really?

How many hours does one need to play the piano in order to get a college degree in music? He said carpal tunnel cut him out of receiving that degree so he dropped out of college. That doesn't mean he could never play the piano again just not as a professional concert pianist.
I don't think you or I are qualified to determine anything about carpal tunnel, hours practicing piano v. hours practicing doing card tricks.

Watch this video to see how some of his tricks are done.

Hieronymus · Jun 29, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
This is total nonsense, but really fits these forums. Do keep on I will read em in few days when I get back to work. I draw a line at reading these and not getting paid.

It seems rather like you have no idea of what makes the world go round, deliberately.

Hank77 · Jun 29, 2019

JacksBratt said:
He does say that he wants us to "respect the art". I showed another video where he stated that he uses "black arts". Now we see here he wants us to "respect" the art.

If you had gone to his website you would know what art he wants respected, so he won't lie about it to the audience.
His website is called, The Art of Illusion.

Hieronymus · Jun 29, 2019

Hank77 said:
If you had gone to his website you would know what art he wants respected, so he won't lie about it to the audience.
His website is called, The Art of Illusion.

Plenty of references to the occult in 'magic land', and also impossible tricks, which in my ever so humble opinion, often forces the so called rational thinkers to come up with even further fetched explanations, as long as they can deny any supernatural aspect of the magician and or performance.
And most people just say "wow, howdy doodat??" and that's it...

Cis.jd · Jun 29, 2019

SaintCody777 said:
I, too, was also into the Final Fantasy games when I was in my mid-teens. I abandoned it in my later years, though it has nothing to do with conviction by the Holy Spirit. But, when I was recently lures to play into FFVI, the conviction did help to keep me out of it.
But, also, since I'm a newcomer into the Legend of Zelda games, I've looked closely into the magic. The reason why I feel Zelda is OK is for many of the same reasons that the works of English writers, like Narnia, and Lord of the Rings are spiritually safe and even edifying for Christians.
Harry Potter vs. Gandalf | Decent Films - SDG Reviews

As with Narnia and Lord of the Rings, the characters in Zelda, unlike the works like Harry Potter, Buffy, Percy Jackson, or Pirates of the Caribbean, use magic openly as if it was some sort of tool and technology and all that magic is confined to it's own universe with it's own laws, that never had a Biblical history or Revelation.

In contrast, entertainment franchises like Harry Potter, POTC, or Percy Jackson contain lots of magical secrets in our world that is not accessible without some secret spell, like a Jack Sparrow's compass, which at first looked silly for a clumsy pirate, that points to wherever your heart desires. The root word of "occult", means "secret knowledge."

Most if not all of the characters of the Zelda series that cast spells are actually not humans, but a fictional humanoid species called Hylians. This also seperates Zelda from Final Fantasy in addition to stuff like Harry Potter, besides the fact that the religion of Zelda was originally going to be Christianity. Their pointy elf-like ears are made to channel magic and communicate with the Gods. Yes, the Zelda universe has been confirmed to has it's own Gods since A Link to the Past, but the golden goddesses are loosely based off the Christian trinity and their reigns are confined to their own universe, which can never be found in real time or space and never had a revelation from God.

Some Christians who defend stuff like Harry Potter might say, well that's both fantasy and call me a hypocrite for rejecting stuff like Harry Potter and POTC, while also embracing Zelda in addition to Narnia.
C.S. Lewis actually talked about the dangers of using magic in the real world, even if it looked "innocent" and is "white magic." The Bible clearly confirms his sayings that magic like that will get you thrown into hell (Revelation 21:8; Deuteronomy 18:9-14; and Galatians 5:19-21). He was not kidding, especially in the OT.

So let me get this straight. You are giving a pass to entertainment franchises like Zelda due to having Christian mythos in it's inspiration yet you say Harry Potter is bad. Harry Potter Deathly Hallows has more christian inspired elements used than any of the Zelda games, mainly because J.K herself claims to be a practicing christian, while the makers of Zelda are obviously not. So logically you should start repping up HP just how you've done so with Zelda.

It blows my mind how none of you are able to see how bad you all make God look. You are telling me he is so against his creation enjoying their imagination all because it doesn't involve him, even if it's make believe? You all make God sound like the actual bad guy, while Satan is sounding like the good guy because apparently he is just making others enjoy themselves and yet that just upsets God enough to send the person to hell? This is a deity with the personality of a child and you insist this to be the truth.

Hieronymus · Jun 29, 2019

Cis.jd said:
So let me get this straight. You are giving a pass to entertainment franchises like Zelda due to having Christian mythos in it's inspiration yet you then go off about how Harry Potter is bad. Harry Potter Deathly Hallows has more christian inspired elements used than any of the Zelda games, in fact the Christian inspired content in Deathly Hallows was much more stronger than other forms of mythos in the previous HP series mainly because J.K herself claims to be a practicing christian, while the makers of Zelda are obviously not. So logically you should start repping up HP just how you've done so with Zelda.

It blows my mind how none of you are able to see how bad you all make God look. You are telling me he is so against his creation enjoying their designed ability called imagination all because it doesn't involve him? So what if they are using magic, it's not going against god in any way because it's just fantasy. Additionally you make God sound like the actual bad guy, while Satan is sounding like the good guy because apparently he is just making mankind enjoy the life they were jailed to be in and for some reason that gets God all upset that he's going to send you to burn forever. That is a God that Jesus has shown to be a "loving father", it's nothing more than a deity with the personality of a child.

Do you think you can defend actual magic (magick) as proper entertainment for Christians?

Cis.jd · Jun 29, 2019

Hieronymus said:
Do you think you can defend actual magic (magick) as proper entertainment for Christians?

Well, it's not actual magic. It's magic for show so yes I can defend why it's not bad for a Christian to be entertained by it. I don't think God is that small (or evil) that just being entertained by a show is going to send you to hell.

Hieronymus · Jun 29, 2019

Cis.jd said:
Well, it's not actual magic it's make believe magic.

But isn't that the $ 1,000,000 question?

It's magic for show,

I agree it's for show.

I don't think God is that small (or evil) that just being entertained by a show is going to send you to hell.

Well, God often lets loose deception and deprivation on people when they turn their backs to Him.

Look into 'demon magicians'.
Decide for yourself.

Hank77 · Jun 29, 2019

JacksBratt said:
Also, Magicians are among the professions that tell you that they are going to lie to you.. then do.. It's all part of the act... to get you to believe something happened that didn't.

Normally I wouldn't have taken part in this discussion but because I did I found this next video that explains another illusion that I have tried to figure out. It demonstrates David Copperfield and the great wall of China illusion and well as a few others.

Cis.jd · Jun 29, 2019

Hieronymus said:
But isn't that the $ 1,000,000 question?I agree it's for show.Well, God often lets loose deception and deprivation on people when they turn their backs to Him.

It's not suppose to be a question, because the magic is complete fiction.

There is no backs being turned on God for enjoying a fantasy story or some random person with talent making a magic show.

Look into 'demon magicians'.
Decide for yourself.

I've watched it before and it's absurd. It's a video made by a person who edited videos of magicians so he/she can present them as "real sorcerers".

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