The real purpose of water baptism in the NT

Guojing

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John 1:31 NLT, John explained the purpose of him baptizing the Jews with water.

I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”

Can I conclude that, in the 4 Gospels as well as early Acts, water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom?

But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace? Water baptism is no longer required for anything?
 

Sabertooth

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But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace? Water baptism is no longer required for anything?
No.

Jesus said,
Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:15-16 NKJV

I am certain that He makes exceptions for those who are unable to get baptized, but I believe that He expects it of everybody else.
 
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Guojing

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No.

Jesus said,
Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:15-16 NKJV

I am certain that He makes exceptions for those who are unable to get baptized, but I believe that He expects it of everybody else.

If you link Mark 16:16 to verses like John 1:31, and the instruction Jesus gave in Matt 10:5

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Do you think Jesus wanted them to go to the Gentiles. When did they first preach to the Gentiles in Acts?
 
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Sabertooth

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Do you think Jesus wanted them to go to the Gentiles.
Mark 16:15 is clearly beyond the scope of just Israel.
When did they first preach to the Gentiles in Acts?
Acts of the Apostles 10.

In Acts of the Apostles 10:47-48, Cornelius & family DID get baptized (in water).
 
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Guojing

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Mark 16:15 is clearly beyond the scope of just Israel.

Acts of the Apostles 10.

But why do you think Peter was so reluctant to go to the Gentiles even then? If God had not shown him the vision of those unclean animals more than once, do you think he would have gone?

Why did the Jewish believers force him to explain to them why he ate with the Gentiles? Do you think the 12 understood Mark 16:15 as preaching to Gentiles too?
 
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Sabertooth

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prodromos

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John 1:31 NLT, John explained the purpose of him baptizing the Jews with water.

I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”

Can I conclude that, in the 4 Gospels as well as early Acts, water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom?

But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace? Water baptism is no longer required for anything?
John's baptism was for repentance.
Jesus' baptism is participation in His death and resurrection.
They both involve immersion in water but are two quite different things.
 
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Wordkeeper

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John's baptism was for repentance.
Jesus' baptism is participation in His death and resurrection.
They both involve immersion in water but are two quite different things.

Actually, all the prophets taught the need to repent, be born anew, from serving mammon to serving God (Christ is the bread of life):

1 Corinthians 10
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Matthew 3
4John had clothing made of camel’s hair and woree a leather belt around his waist. His diet consisted of grasshoppersf and wild honey.

John was taught that repentance was meta noia, changing his mind from seeing mammon as a life source, to seeing God as a life source. When he abandoned mammon, people were astonished to see God caring for him, just as He cared for the birds of the air and the lilies of the field. Many went into the wilderness to follow John, because God was with Him.

Matthew 11
7As these men were going away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John, “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8“But what did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ palaces! 9“But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and one who is more than a prophet.

Of course, some had misconceptions about prophets bearing God's message, but the fault was in the listener, not the message. They took offense at both John and Jesus. They took offense at both the funeral dirge as well as the wedding march.

John 1
31“I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water.”

Paraphrase
I did not recognise Him (He is supposed to leave mammon and serve God, but he is eating and drinking like the rest), but so that He might show His real self, I tried to set an example.
 
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TheSeabass

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John 1:31 NLT, John explained the purpose of him baptizing the Jews with water.

I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”

Can I conclude that, in the 4 Gospels as well as early Acts, water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom?

But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace? Water baptism is no longer required for anything?
Acts of the Apostles 10:47-48 the Gentiles were commanded to be water baptized as the Jews Acts of the Apostles 2:38 with water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins being the 'like manner' way Jew and Gentile are saved Acts of the Apostles 15:11.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Acts of the Apostles 10:47-48 the Gentiles were commanded to be water baptized as the Jews Acts of the Apostles 2:38 with water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins being the 'like manner' way Jew and Gentile are saved Acts of the Apostles 15:11.

Baptism is always by water, but it can be into water or the Holy Spirit and fire.

Water=funeral dirge, feeding with locust and honey.

Holy Spirit and fire= wedding music, turning water into wine, feeding of multitude (Mark 8:21Then He asked them, “Do you still not understand?”), supernatural opening of Scripture, etc.
 
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eleos1954

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John 1:31 NLT, John explained the purpose of him baptizing the Jews with water.

I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”

Can I conclude that, in the 4 Gospels as well as early Acts, water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom?

But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace? Water baptism is no longer required for anything?

Faith and grace are nothing new. The people of the OT were/are saved the same way we are .... through Christ ... their faith in the promise of the Messiah to come. Baptism was not required then and is not required now to receive salvation.

1 Peter 3:18 (RSV) For Christ also died for sins once for all (all sinners, past, present & future), the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;

By baptism (Gentile and Jew alike) we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church (believers in Christ). Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Matt. 28:19, 20; Acts 2:38; 16:30-33; 22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12, 13.)
 
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ViaCrucis

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John 1:31 NLT, John explained the purpose of him baptizing the Jews with water.

I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”

Can I conclude that, in the 4 Gospels as well as early Acts, water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom?

But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace? Water baptism is no longer required for anything?

You are confusing John's Baptism with Christian Baptism. And you are making the error that Jesus' Gospel of the kingdom is another Gospel than the Gospel of our salvation. There's only one Gospel, it's the Gospel which our Lord Jesus came teaching and preaching, and it's the one the Apostles went out into the world to proclaim: the Gospel of the kingdom of God, of God's salvation for the world through the King Messiah who came, Jesus, by His life, death, and resurrection through which there is peace with God, victory over sin and death, and life everlasting.

John's Baptism was a "baptism of repentance", a call to repentance in the anticipation of the coming of the Messiah. With Jesus going into the river with John to receive John's baptism, Jesus "fulfilled all righteousness", inaugurating His messianic ministry.

Christian Baptism isn't about repentance in preparation for the Messiah's coming, because Messiah has come, His name is Jesus. This Baptism is by the name and authority of Jesus the Messiah, "Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them" He said. This Baptism is done "in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit" because this Baptism is the Sacrament of God by which we are made partakers of the life of God through new birth by God's grace. For here we receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), new birth from God (John 3:5, Titus 3:5), having been washed in the water with the word (Ephesians 5:26), for having been united and clothed with Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:27) we are also united to His death (Romans 6:5), having been buried with Him we are raised together with Him (Colossians 2:12); we have therefore received the grace of adoption as sons and daughters of God; joined to Jesus as joint-heirs, indwelt with the Holy Spirit, under the Fatherhood of God. Therefore we have become heirs of God, received the promises of God: Christ has died once and for all and for the forgiveness of sins, and we are the benefactors of Christ's precious and glorious work, so that our sins are truly forgiven, we have received His righteousness as pure gift, and have the hope and promise of eternal life, resurrection of the body, that glorious life of the Age to Come which is all ours through and in Christ. That is the meaning and significance of Christian Baptism. For Jew and Gentile, for there is no difference in Christ who has taken the two and made one new People in Himself.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Albion

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Baptism is always by water, but it can be into water or the Holy Spirit and fire.
How does the following teach us that water can be used, or not, as might be preferred:

"And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, 'See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?'” Acts of the Apostles 8:36
 
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TheSeabass

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Baptism is always by water, but it can be into water or the Holy Spirit and fire.

Water=funeral dirge, feeding with locust and honey.

Holy Spirit and fire= wedding music, turning water into wine, feeding of multitude (Mark 8:21Then He asked them, “Do you still not understand?”), supernatural opening of Scripture, etc.

By the time Paul penned his Ephesian epistle, there was "one baptism" that is now in effect, Ephesians 4:4-5. That one baptism being the human administered water baptism of Christ's great commission that is for all men and lasts till the end of the world.

You start your post by saying "baptism is ALWAYS by water". So is it or is it not ALWAYS by water?
 
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Wordkeeper

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Faith and grace are nothing new. The people of the OT were/are saved the same way we are .... through Christ ... their faith in the promise of the Messiah to come. Baptism was not required then and is not required now to receive salvation.

1 Peter 3:18 (RSV) For Christ also died for sins once for all (all sinners, past, present & future), the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;

By baptism (Gentile and Jew alike) we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church (believers in Christ). Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Matt. 28:19, 20; Acts 2:38; 16:30-33; 22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12, 13.)
The teaching is highly nuanced and we can lose sight of the central theme very easily if we are not careful.


The benefits of baptism is access to edification from God is unlocked :


1 Corinthians 10

3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.



Baptism isn't required to receive the benefits of baptism. Abraham was baptized, and he was edified by seeing God's great work in delivering him from Abhimelec and Pharaoh. His faith was sufficiently strong for God to confirm his election, by the time he was asked to sacrifice Isaac.


Israel was baptized, and she was edified by seeing God's great work in delivering him from Pharaoh. God continued to edify Israel, by creating evil, calamities and then delivering. But it off a million Israelites over twenty, only Joshua benefited from the building up:


1 Corinthians 10

5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.


Psalms 106

13But they quickly forgot his deeds


and did not wait for his counsel.


14They were overwhelmed with craving in the wilderness,


so God tested them in the wasteland.


15God granted them their request,


but sent leanness into their lives.


John began baptising because it was revealed to him that the Rock was being given. His baptism enabled people to recognise the Messiah, because it modeled the drinking from the Rock theme:


John 1

19This was John’s testimony when the Jewish leadersp sent priests and descendants of Levi to him from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”


20He spoke openly and, remaining true to himself,q admitted, “I am not the Messiah.”r


21So they asked him, “Well then, are you Elijah?”


Johns said, “I am not.”


“Are you the Prophet?”


He answered, “No.”


22“Who are you?” they asked him. “We must give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”


23He replied, “I am


‘…a voice crying out in the wilderness,


“Prepare the Lord’st highway,”’u


as the prophet Isaiah said.”


24Now those menv had been sent from the Pharisees. 25They asked him, “Why, then, are you baptizing if you are not the Messiah,w or Elijah, or the Prophet?”


26John answered them, “I am baptizing withx water, but among you stands a man whom you do not know, 27the one who is coming after me, whose sandal straps I am not worthy to untie.”sandal straps I am not worthy to untie.” 28This happened in Bethanyy on the other sidez of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.


29The next day, Johnaa saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one about whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks above me, because he existed before me.’ 31I didn’t recognize him, but I came baptizing withbb water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”


32John also testified, “I saw the Spirit coming down from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. 33I didn’t recognize him, but the one who sent me to baptize withcc water told me, ‘The person on whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining is the one who baptizes withdd the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen this and have testified that this is the Sonee of God.”


Although Abraham and Israel were not physically baptized, they nevertheless received edification since they had actually experienced spiritual baptism,
thus qualified for it, since they were unhappy with Egypt:

Hebrews 11
13All these people died having faith. They did not receive the things that were promised, yet they saw them in the distant future and welcomed them, acknowledging that they were strangers and foreigners on earth. 14For people who say such things make it clear that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking about what they had left behind, they would have had an opportunity to go back. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country, that is, a heavenly one. That is why God is not ashamed to be called their God, because he has prepared a city for them.

1 Peter 2
11Beloved, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from the desires of the flesh, which war against your soul.


So if a person is unhappy, feels alienated by the ways of the world, and cries out to God, God will unlock access to edification.

Physical baptism was introduced to clarify what the process was about.
 
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Wordkeeper

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How does the following teach us that water can be used, or not, as might be preferred:

"And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, 'See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?'” Acts of the Apostles 8:36
Physical baptism with water maps the event of the sea destroying Israel's pursuers to the cares of the world which hold us back from following God. It's an educational aid.
 
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Albion

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Physical baptism with water maps the sea destroying Israel's pursues to the cares of the world which hold us back from following God. It's an educational aid.
Not according to the Bible. And not according to your earlier post, either.
 
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By the time Paul penned his Ephesian epistle, there was "one baptism" that is now in effect, Ephesians 4:4-5. That one baptism being the human administered water baptism of Christ's great commission that is for all men and lasts till the end of the world.

You start your post by saying "baptism is ALWAYS by water". So is it or is it not ALWAYS by water?
Physical baptism with water maps the event of the sea destroying Israel's pursuers to the cares of the world which hold us back from following God .
 
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