Married 3 times, shared a lot

Sketcher · Jun 28, 2019

blackribbon said:
"Two become one" is the definition of marriage Biblically and most cultures do not believe a marriage is a until it is consummated. There is no required ceremony in the Bible. Marriage is a sexual union. If you believe that, then to have sex with someone is forming a marriage. That means that anyone who has sex enters into a form of marriage with that person. Any sexual relationship after that would be adulterous if you believe that a marriage can not be completely dissolved to the point that a person can enter into a new marriage and sexual relationship with another person.

If you're going to argue from creation then, the proper response is what Jesus said in Matthew 19:4-9 - which means remarriage after divorce while the ex is still living is adultery. However, he did differentiate between fornication and adultery (Matthew 15:19), as did Paul (1 Corinthians 6:9). Since Judaism had a long-standing tradition of marriage contracts, it is possible that the lack of one would have been considered a distinctive factor in whether one was fornicating or simply marrying.

blackribbon said:
I don't understand how people can believe that having sex outside of a marriage is not as bad as ending a marriage, repenting, and committing to a monogamous relationship to another. At least with the marriage, there was an attempt to do it right even if the actual relationship wasn't successful. One at least acknowledges that a sexual relationship is sacred and should be in the confines of marriage. The other just says sex isn't that important and makes it okay to "do it" and keeps your options for marriage free. Does that make sense? Casual sex means freedom to get married. Committed sex means you are stuck for life. ???

This is just my observations and my opinion. I can't condemn a person to being alone forever because their spouse was a louse and left them...regardless of the reason. Some people don't belong married. Some people change and become toxic to be married to. The ideal marriage is between two sexually pure individuals. However, God forgives and most people are not sexually pure an the best they can claim is to be forgiven and covered with grace.

Honestly, do people really believe that somehow a person who has had unmarried sex is "better" or less sinful than someone who only had sex within a marriage contract and yet the marriage failed? Does that sound like a distinction that you can hear Jesus saying? Sexually pure means never having had sexual relations. Anyone else is sexually tainted.

I think this is one of those instances where a person is trying to point out a splinter in someone elses eye without address the log in their own.... JMO.

It's not a matter of "better" or "worse." It's a matter of what creates a permanent union in the sight of God that he will hold the people to, or not. God's ideal for marriage is that the two people stay together, treat each other right, and forgive each other. And his definition of it, as Jesus taught, is for life. Repenting of sin in this area means returning to God's intention for it. Which means if it was dishonored, honoring it again. This precludes marrying anyone else while the ex still lives, with the possible exception of if the ex cheated on you, per Matthew 19:9.

blackribbon · Jun 28, 2019

I don't remember where it says that if you were cheated on, it is okay to remarry. I thought it was just okay to divorce.
Funny, that me, someone who is legally allowed to remarry is more compassionate and less judgemental of a person who has a failed marriage. Maybe it is because I do understand how hard it is to stay married in a society that encourages and accepts giving up. I am not willing to stand in front of God on day and say that I judged someone who left a marriage that harmed him/her and their kids. I am not judgmental enough to refuse to love someone who is divorced. This falls under legalism and can't see how it fits under the two commandments given by Jesus...to love the Lord, your God and to love your neighbor .. I'd be afraid to marry an older person who thinks that they are "better" because they haven't divorced ... either with the sin of having sex outside of marriage .... or pious virginity. It would be hard to live with someone who values pride over compassion. And there is nothing particularly pious about a virgin who is only a virgin out of lack of opportunity.
Good luck finding that perfect mate who is as sinfree as you are. Marriage is genuine hard work. Personally, I'd have no problems considering marrying someone who is humble about the failure of their marriage. I don't feel prideful enough to believe that anyone, including myself, has not made a lot of mistakes in life and has lost the chance to love and be loved.

S.O.J.I.A. · Jun 28, 2019

pragmatism and appeals to emotion are never the best arguments.

blackribbon · Jun 28, 2019

THE W said:
pragmatism and appeals to emotion are never the best arguments.

I don't have to appeal to anyone. I am simply saying what I believe. I don't believe that God thinks it is wrong to fall in love with a person who has had a failed marriage. I am good to remarry. I don't have a bone in this fight. I still believe that loving your neighbor outweighs, ostracize your neighbor because they had an unsuccessful relationship.

blackribbon · Jun 28, 2019

I also find it sort of interesting that people who are single but not virgins somehow think they are better marriage prospects than someone who is divorced but only has had sex within the confines of a committed relationship.

S.O.J.I.A. · Jun 29, 2019

blackribbon said:
I don't have to appeal to anyone. I am simply saying what I believe.

people believe a lot of things. however, if these personal beliefs are contrary to God's Word(the scriptures) than one has to choose between obeying God's Word or holding to their personal beliefs.

ThisIsMe123 · Jun 29, 2019

Lybrah said:
My concern with marrying a divorcee would be that it's adultery in God's eyes (unless the spouse cheated on the person). In the NT, Jesus overrules Moses' viewpoint on divorce and makes it perfectly clear that by marrying one who has been divorced is adultery. Thou shall not commit adultery is one of the ten commandments. If you marry that person until you die you've been in a state of unrepented sin.
However, if the person who is divorced had no say in the matter and tried to stay together, the other one was hell bent on dissolving the marriage, then that is a different story. Because that person didn't want to end the marriage but was forced to.
Someone who has been married three times---it is unlikely that it was the other person's fault all three times.
Not wanting to date a divorced person narrows our dating pool quite a bit, especially as we get older because that is all that is left. And another thing is that besides adultery, if the two people gave up on each other and divorced over petty stuff, does that mean that they would do the same to you? They weren't willing to try to make it work with their first marriage.

Going towards the bolded here.

I am wondering if ANYONE is considering that I'm pushing 50, never married and had dated a slew of divorced women.

Why? Because I think 99% of the over 40 women I've encountered had been married at least ONE time.

Now, the women who are over 40 and never been married...would be nice to have. But the very few I had come across in this age bracket typically weren't mutually interested or attracted to me. Darn that ol' attraction thing. Or, put in the friend zone.

However, those people over 40 had their slew of pre-marital boyfriends and girlfriends throughout the course of their lives. One Christian I know that's an organist that plans on NEVER re-marrying...EVER due to bad first marriage. So hey, at least she's honoring God by NOT remarrying.

HOWEVER, she's acquired simply a boyfriend. A long term relationship. He's cool with this arrangement. She said if she's sinning whilst in this arrangement, that's just business between her and God.

But hey, at least she didn't re-marry...right?

Oh wait, yeah, if they kiss or get a little hot and heavy...it's a sin...too!

So really, there's no getting around sinning when it comes to dating practices whilst middle-aged.

So I'll end it with that Jesus died for our sins. So we have that going for us. God knew it would be inevitable that we would sin, so he sent his only Son.

blackribbon · Jun 29, 2019

THE W said:
people believe a lot of things. however, if these personal beliefs are contrary to God's Word(the scriptures) than one has to choose between obeying God's Word or holding to their personal beliefs.

Well, as a Christian, I don't believe my personal beliefs goes against God's Word. I think this falls under some of the verses that were addressing specific issues in particular churches or cultures...and fall under legalism when you try to apply them across the board. I look first two Jesus' two commandments which define Christianity...to love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and body AND to love your neighbor ... If people followed these two commands, there would be no divorce to start with but in the fact that it already exists, it precludes you from rejecting them on such a minor issue.

S.O.J.I.A. · Jun 29, 2019

blackribbon said:
Well, as a Christian, I don't believe my personal beliefs goes against God's Word.

of course you don't...

blackribbon said:
to love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and body

can this be accomplished when you choose to disobey His commands?

blackribbon said:
AND to love your neighbor

can this be accomplished when we lead our neighbor into sin?

blackribbon · Jun 29, 2019

If you believe that God is telling you not to date or marry a divorcee, then don't.

However, be careful about judging others because you will be judged on the same level that you judge others. Love your neighbor...don't micro-manage what goes on in their home.

S.O.J.I.A. · Jun 29, 2019

blackribbon said:
If you believe that God is telling you not to date or marry a divorcee, then don't.

I actually would marry a divorcee...if their former husband had passed.

blackribbon said:
However, be careful about judging others because you will be judged on the same level that you judge others. Love your neighbor

allowing myself to be judged by the commands of scripture is only right.

blackribbon said:
don't micro-manage what goes on in their home.

the apostle paul saw things differently
1 corinthians 5

blackribbon · Jun 29, 2019

THE W said:
of course you don't...

can this be accomplished when you choose to disobey His commands?

can this be accomplished when we lead our neighbor into sin?

If you believe that it is a sin to marry a divorce person, don't. However, I don't believe that you can say that it is your job to judge your neighbor... but rather love them with a Godly love where they are.

There are people who would say that I sin because I have worn short hair since it keeps it from dragging through patient's wounds or body fluids or hanging in my eyes. I speak in church (not the service) but definitely in Bible study groups and don't keep my mouth shut and wait for my non-existent husband to "teach me" in the privacy of my home. ... and the list goes on of little points of legalism that many Christians use to hold other Christians in captivity instead of experiencing the full joy that comes from loving the Lord, God with your whole heart.

Since you believe it is a sin. Don't date or marry a divorcee. You are safe. Unless this is the calling of your heart and you make serving the divorced population the joy of your heart, I don't think it is wise to judge others from a distance. Otherwise, you get situations like King David who sent Bathsheba's husband into a dangerous situation to die so that she would be "free" to marry him. Legalistically, she was a widow and free to get remarried. But are you okay with that method to avoid divorce?

S.O.J.I.A. · Jun 29, 2019

blackribbon said:
If you believe that it is a sin to marry a divorce person, don't. However, I don't believe that you can say that it is your job to judge your neighbor... but rather love them with a Godly love where they are.

There are people who would say that I sin because I have worn short hair since it keeps it from dragging through patient's wounds or body fluids or hanging in my eyes. I speak in church (not the service) but definitely in Bible study groups and don't keep my mouth shut and wait for my non-existent husband to "teach me" in the privacy of my home. ... and the list goes on of little points of legalism that many Christians use to hold other Christians in captivity instead of experiencing the full joy that comes from loving the Lord, God with your whole heart.

Since you believe it is a sin. Don't date or marry a divorcee. You are safe. Unless this is the calling of your heart and you make serving the divorced population the joy of your heart, I don't think it is wise to judge others from a distance. Otherwise, you get situations like King David who sent Bathsheba's husband into a dangerous situation to die so that she would be "free" to marry him. Legalistically, she was a widow and free to get remarried. But are you okay with that method to avoid divorce?

i have no response to this rant....are you okay?

blackribbon · Jun 29, 2019

THE W said:
the apostle paul saw things differently
1 corinthians 5

I Cor 5:11
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

This means you can not associate with any Christian who is has had sex outside of marriage, looks at inappropriate content, lusts after women he/she is not married to, likes his money or sports or other personal items (idolatry) a bit more than he should), has ever told an untruth about another person, ever gotten drunk, or has ever cheated another person out of money or property (ie, walked away from a cash register with too much change or a product that didn't get range up.)

I suspect that if you are legalistic enough to try to live by these words of Paul, you always eat with only non-Christians or eat alone (but not too close to a mirror).

I do not say these words are wrong but they have to be read with the whole picture in mind because to read this literally means that Christians would have to isolate and not come together to try to support each other to try to overcome our sinful natures. Instead it obviously says to not just accept someone who claims to be a Christian but is living a life in active rebellion to Christianity. I think the key point is "active rebellion". A person who is killing their marriage is in active rebellion. A divorced person who has repented and accepted his/her role in the failure of their marriage may not be in active rebellion but instead is repentant and forgiven.

ThisIsMe123 · Jun 29, 2019

THE W said:
i have no response to this rant....are you okay?

How is it a "rant"? How is it you don't have a response?

The "Are you okay?" question is quite gas lighting.

S.O.J.I.A. · Jun 29, 2019

blackribbon said:
Instead it obviously says to not just accept someone who claims to be a Christian but is living a life in active rebellion to Christianity.

how is encouraging people to do something scripture clearly prohibits not a form of active rebellion?

S.O.J.I.A. · Jun 29, 2019

ThisIsMe123 said:
How is it you don't have a response?

the post was tangential. nothing to respond to.

blackribbon · Jun 29, 2019

Matt 5:32 KJV
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving. for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and. whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Actually, if you read the words of Jesus. The first sin that starts this whole domino affect puts the sin on the husband who divorces his wife (except when she sexually cheated). It says she has committed adultery by being divorced (or is it implying that she will likely remarry). It doesn't say that only if she gets remarried. I think the weight of the sin of adultery is on the MAN who put his wife away.

Is the church teaching this? Do you associate with men who are divorced and not actively attempting to reconcile with their ex-wives? Have you actually confronted divorced men about the importance of trying to win their ex-wives back and love them the way they are commanded to?

blackribbon · Jun 29, 2019

Matt 7:1-5
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

S.O.J.I.A. · Jun 29, 2019

blackribbon said:
and. whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

matthew 19:9
"whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery"

romans 7:3
"so then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulterous."

again, how is encouraging someone to do something scripture clearly prohibits not active rebellion?

Married 3 times, shared a lot

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