Can Science Clean Up Swine?
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sfs
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I see the council deciding that avoiding pig meat was not one of the requirements imposed on gentiles. That implies they were allowed to eat them, whether you choose to call them clean or unclean.
ETA And of course there's the bit in Mark where the evangelist describes Jesus as declaring all foods clean. If you think that doesn't count because pork isn't a food, then there's no point in continuing this conversation.
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- Jul 25, 2005
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It is called the Socratic method.
- If they are opposed to each other, God is greater.
- If they are in agreement, Paul participates in God's greatness.
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Stormy
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Seriously you ask if eating pork is unclean?
Once again Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “All of you, listen to Me and understand: 15Nothing that enters a man from the outside can defile him; but the things that come out of a man, these are what defile him.”
That's the biblical answer. And we all know if pork is cooked correctly there is no problem.
Excuse me, I'm going to make a BLT! Yes!
Once again Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “All of you, listen to Me and understand: 15Nothing that enters a man from the outside can defile him; but the things that come out of a man, these are what defile him.”
That's the biblical answer. And we all know if pork is cooked correctly there is no problem.
Excuse me, I'm going to make a BLT! Yes!
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The decision of the Jerusalem council was not an exhaustive list of the only things Gentiles coming into the sheep fold were expected obey. For example, they weren’t told about witchcraft, sorcery and drunkenness, but I’m sure you would not agree that these things are permitted for Gentile converts to do.
It was a starting point, as the Gentiles would learn more when they heard the law being ready every Sabbath.
The statement “Jesus declared all foods clean” is not in the manuscript - it is an interpolation added by different translators. It’s not in the KJV.
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Kaon
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I am asking you a question: is the Most High God or Paul greater?
I already told you that I don't think Paul is saying what you think he is, so forget about throwing things out.
Is the Most High God, or Paul greater?
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Unclean animals were not the subject of discussion. The context was about becoming defiled by eating without washing your hands first.
The subject was not whether unclean animals defile you.
God already taught us that we defile ourselves when we eat unclean animals:
Leviticus 11:43-44
Interestingly enough, the first time the concept of defiling ones self is first found when God is teaching us about clean and unclean animals.
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Yeah, and the whole vision for Peter was speaking about calling people unclean...Peter said "not so" even to the Lord when he was told to eat the unclean animals.
Also, if you look at what was explicitly said in that passage to the new believers:
Acts 15
"20Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood."
it pretty much covers the dietary laws...so...no rare steaks, etc...and notice the key word, "Food". Please understand that the unclean animals were never even considered food, so swine, etc...was out from the start...context...context...context.
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- Jul 25, 2005
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Do you understand covenantal circumcision* and kosher laws to be a package deal, or that they are separable?
*For the record, I am for prophylactic male circumcision, but against covenantal for Gentile believers. So, I am not even contesting said circumcision, just its spiritual value. I take the same view for the dietary laws, hand-washing, etc. If I end up adopting these practices because I trust Jesus (instead of blindly), isn't He, in fact, writing His Law upon my heart, as He said that He would?
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Kaon
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You did NOT answer.
Who is greater: the Most High GOD, or Paul.
The answer is "either/or"; no explanation necessary.
Can you directly answer the questions?
Who is greater: the Most High God or Paul?
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Hieronymus
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God obviously.
God, who had to make clear to Peter 3 times that it was okay to eat 'unclean' food.
Peter had quite a hard time getting the message too.
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Kaon
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So the Most High God reneged on His own Law on food? Show me where He made these changes, not man. Man changing the Word of God to fit his benefit is dogma.
Do you actually believe that? Incidentally, Peter explains exactly what the dream is about in the chapter - and it isn't about eating anything. The food is a metaphor for creatures (humans), and how to treat what the Most High has made right.
Where did the Most High God ever change His Law?
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Hieronymus
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It is written God gave Israel bad laws.
But the new wine makes the old sacks burst.
Things seem to have changed with Christ and the inclusion of the Gentiles.
It's all about faith in God now, as opposed to living by the letter of the old laws.
The law of Christ are the 2 equal great commandments.
We're quite free to choose how we shape / express our Love for God and fellow humans.
It's about a change of heart rather than a change of diet.
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Kaon
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Who said the Laws of the Most High God were bad? All the reverent prophets I know say His Law is a delight. Did the Most High God say His laws were bad, or did a human insinuate it?
Faith without works is dead. If you don't have the faith that the Most High God will redeem you even if you are obedient and mess up (instead of condemning you), then you cant be saved. Why? Because you don't even start with the foundation of obedience before you extrapolate faith in this sense.
If you have the faith in the Redeemer, you [try to] do exactly what He says (i.e. follow the Father), and take advantage of grace when you slip up and fall. Without the Law, people run aimlessly on an intangibility faith alone.
What child is NOT expected to be fully obedient to their parents? How often do HUMAN parents change their fundamental family rules? How much less would the Most High God who doesnt change?
For goodness sake, there are only 1000 laws; a given nation adds that many a year - why is that acceptable to be obedient to a State, but not the Most High God?
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