Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

mkgal1 · Jun 26, 2019

nolidad said:
As for teh land inheritance- Just read how it was divided- no provision was made for non Jews!

This is the "family tree" of the 12 tribes (do you notice that Leah's and Rachel's servants are included?). Land inheritance was based on *households* and within those households were "foreigners".

You can see that also in what Claninja posted in this thread:

Claninja said:
Salmon (tribe of Judah) and Rahab(Canaanite) had Boaz

Boaz (mixed half tribe of Judah, half Canaanite) and Ruth (Moabite) had Obed

Obed (half Moabite, quarter Canaanite, and quarter Jewish ) fathered Jesse

and Jesse fathered david.

Right here, we can see that while Obed could trace his lineage through Judah, he was barely of the DNA of Israel.

Matthew 1:5 Salmon was the father of Boaz by Rahab, Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth,

Both Rahab and Ruth, who were not born Israelites, had faith and were thus included into Israel and the promises of God, as God used their lineage to bring forth the Messiah.

mkgal1 · Jun 26, 2019

nolidad said:
But I do read scripture and I do know that women could not enter the inner court (the court of the Jews) and gentiles stayed outside!

And Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines in the Bible, too. Are you an apologist of extreme polygamy as well?

I believe you're missing the point. God destroyed that temple system. His glory was NEVER there. His glory departed the first Temple. Ezekiel 10

Jesus met face to face with those you're suggesting God wanted distance from:

Quoting Ligonier Ministries: Jesus’ dialogue with the Samaritan woman in John 4 has inspired Christians’ willingness to meet wherever we can find space. Our Savior’s statement that His followers will not worship exclusively in Samaria or Jerusalem but “in spirit and truth” indicate that God’s presence is not limited to any place or time (vv. 21–24). ~ Ligonier Ministries

Ronald · Jun 26, 2019

"Say to them, thus says the Lord GOD, - 'Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;'" Ezek. 37:21 NASB

So what is coming soon?

"For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle. And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." Zech. 14:2-4 KJV *** (verse 12 is interesting, the effects of a nuclear bomb.)

"It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem." Zech. 12:9 NKJV Btw, this didn't happen in 70 AD, only one nation came against Jerusalem.

"His winnowing fan is in His hand, and he will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matt. 3:12 NKJV
"Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers." Matt. 25:41 YLT
"But the Lord has endure forever; He has prepared his throne for Judgment." Psalm 9:7 NKJV
"But the transgressors and sinners will be crushed together,
And those who forsake the LORD will come to an end." Isaiah 1:28 NASB
*note: Did that happen yet? No!

"Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
Cruel, with fury and burning anger,
To make the land a desolation; *note: Could be a reference to the AOD.
And He will exterminate its sinners from it.
For the stars of the heaven and their constellations
Will not flash forth their light;
The sun will be dark when it rises
And the moon will not shed its light.
Thus I will punish the world for its evil *note: the entire world gets judged
And the wicked for their iniquity;
I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud
And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless.
I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold
And mankind than the gold of Ophir.
Therefore I will make the heavens tremble,
And the earth will be shaken from its place *note: This is a worldwide earthquake mentioned in Rev. 6:12 & 16:18 which is the same quake, different vantage point.
At the fury of the LORD of hosts
In the day of His burning anger." Isaiah 13: 9-13 NASB

Ronald · Jun 26, 2019

Duplicate

claninja · Jun 26, 2019

Ronald said:
"Say to them, thus says the Lord GOD, - 'Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;'" Ezek. 37:21 NASB

So what is coming soon?

This prophecy is rooted in the old covenant promises of restoration to land after the blessings and curses had been poured out.

Deuteronomy 30:1-5 When all these things come upon you—the blessings and curses I have set before you—and you call them to mind in all the nations to which the LORD your God has banished you, and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey His voice with all your heart and all your soul according to everything I am giving you today, then He will restore you from captivity and have compassion on you and gather you from all the nations to which the LORD your God has scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the ends of the earth, He will gather you and return you from there.

Daniel confirms the curses of the law were poured out:

Daniel 9:11 All Israel has transgressed Your law and turned away, refusing to obey Your voice; so the oath and the curse written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, has been poured out on us because we have sinned against You.

Jeremiah confirms that the promise of restoration, found in the law of moses, would be fulfilled after the Babylonian exile.

Jeremiah 29:10-14 For this is what the LORD says: “When Babylon’s seventy years are complete, I will attend to you and confirm My promise to restore you to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD, and I will restore you from captivity and gather you from all the nations and places to which I have banished you, declares the LORD. I will restore you to the place from which I sent you into exile.

Ezekiel prophesied DURING the Babylonian exile, that God would gather the Israelites back to the land.

Ezekiel 37:21 you are to tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘I will take the Israelites out of the nations to which they have gone, and I will gather them from all around and bring them into their own land.

Ezra confirms that the Israelites returned in waves back to the land after the Babylonian exile

Ezra 1:5 So the family heads of Judah and Benjamin, along with the priests and Levites—everyone whose spirit God had stirred—prepared to go up and rebuild the house of the LORD in Jerusalem.

Ezra 8:1 These are the family heads and genealogical records of those who returned with me from Babylon during the reign of King Artaxerxes

Chronicles confirms that some from the northern tribes resettled in the land after the Babylonian exile.

1 chronicles 9:1-3 So all Israel was recorded in the genealogies written in the Book of the Kings of Israel. But Judah was exiled to Babylon because of their unfaithfulness. Now the first to resettle their own property in their cities were Israelites, priests, Levites, and temple servants. These were some of the descendants of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh who lived in Jerusalem:

Thus, under the OLD COVENANT, Israel did return to the land as promised.

However.....

The old covenant is now obsolete, and the new covenant has superseded the old covenant.

Hebrews 10:9 Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second

Hebrews 8:13 By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Therefore, as the old covenant is now obsolete, its promises of restoration are now obsolete.

mkgal1 · Jun 26, 2019

nolidad said:
But the wall separating the court of teh women from the court of the gentiles wasn't built until Herods day!

but in Solomons temple and the rebuilt temple under zerubabbel the outer court had no wall

I'm unsure what your point is in bringing this up?

nolidad · Jun 26, 2019

mkgal1 said:
Not in my mind at all. You have yet to provide ANY support that this was on God's instruction .

God allows women to be leaders in the church & to preach just fine (who was it that He showed Himself to first after He resurrected?). God's not racist or a misogynist - but that doesn't put a stop to people using Him to put a stamp of approval on their personal biases. Jesus is the exact representation of God. When there's a doubt about God's character? Look to Jesus (not to what men have done!)

Well I guess Paul misunderstood God then:

Paul taught the churches that woman could not terach men in the church- ergo could not be pastors or teachers to the general congregation! Same with Deacons- Peter (another bad day I guess) told the church to pick out 7 men!

1 Cor. 11: 1-15 then Paul concludes with this :
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

And custom means a commonality between the churches!

mkgal1 · Jun 26, 2019

nolidad said:
Well I guess Paul misunderstood God then

As I said before - when there's a question about God and His instruction - Jesus is the referee (look to Him and His behavior). IOW.....I think it's more that you misunderstand Paul (and the context - but this isn't the place for that discussion).

nolidad said:
Paul taught the churches that woman could not terach men in the church- ergo could not be pastors or teachers to the general congregation! Same with Deacons- Peter (another bad day I guess) told the church to pick out 7 men!

And what was Lydia doing in Acts 16? (Seems to me that she was beginning a church in Phillipa)....and, as I mentioned earlier, who was it that proclaimed that Jesus had risen?

You will have to begin another thread if you wish to discuss this more, though.

nolidad · Jun 26, 2019

jgr said:
Where is that in Scripture?
Or is it in the talmud?

Where is that in Scripture?
Or is it in the talmud?

Where is that in Scripture?
Or is it in the talmud?

Where is that in Scripture?
Or is it in the talmud?

It is in Scripture- that is why it is called the court of women!

The Court of the Women in the Temple (Bible History Online)

From wiki:

The court of the women (Hebrew: עזרת הנשים Ezrat HaNashim or עזרת נשים Ezrat Nashim) was the outer forecourt of the Temples in Jerusalem into which women were permitted to enter.[1] The court was also known as the "middle court," as it stood between the Court of the Gentiles and the court of Israel, i.e. the court of the men.[2]

https://www.[bless and do not curse.../interior-diagram-of-temple-in-jerusalem.html

show from Scripture that women could enter the inner court or the court of teh men except for bringing a sacrifice!

nolidad · Jun 26, 2019

mkgal1 said:
This is the "family tree" of the 12 tribes (do you notice that Leah's and Rachel's servants are included?). Land inheritance was based on *households* and within those households were "foreigners".

Well isn't it nice you showed the wives of Jacob! But you forgot one thing- inheritance was given to teh men of the tribe and not the women! Read Ruth- Naomi was a Jewess but could not even receive her inheritance. Boaz married Ruth as a kinsman redeemer. foreigners were considered even less in the Israel theocracy!

nolidad · Jun 26, 2019

mkgal1 said:
And Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines in the Bible, too. Are you an apologist of extreme polygamy as well?

I believe you're missing the point. God destroyed that temple system. His glory was NEVER there. His glory departed the first Temple. Ezekiel 10

Jesus met face to face with those you're suggesting God wanted distance from:

Quoting Ligonier Ministries: Jesus’ dialogue with the Samaritan woman in John 4 has inspired Christians’ willingness to meet wherever we can find space. Our Savior’s statement that His followers will not worship exclusively in Samaria or Jerusalem but “in spirit and truth” indicate that God’s presence is not limited to any place or time (vv. 21–24). ~ Ligonier Ministries

You need to read scripture more! Gods shechinah glory filled the temple many times! Jesus did not condemn the temple system- He fulfilled it thus rendering it null and void!

nolidad · Jun 26, 2019

mkgal1 said:
I'm unsure what your point is in bringing this up?

The point is that since solomons temple- woman had their court, the Jewish men had their court and the gentiles went outside of the courts.

mkgal1 · Jun 26, 2019

nolidad said:
Well isn't it nice you showed the wives of Jacob! But you forgot one thing- inheritance was given to teh men of the tribe and not the women! Read Ruth- Naomi was a Jewess but could not even receive her inheritance. Boaz married Ruth as a kinsman redeemer. foreigners were considered even less in the Israel theocracy!

I think you're missing my point. You seem to have gotten derailed thinking about the rights of women (or lack thereof).....but we were discussing land inheritance when I posted that.

You keep repeating that "foreigners were considered even less in the Israel theocracy" but without any support (and, even stronger, with Scripture showing the opposite) your point is refuted. As claninja had posted (and I previously shared)..."Boaz (mixed half tribe of Judah, half Canaanite) and Ruth (Moabite) had Obed". "Foreigners" that had faith and observed the law were considered equal. See post #1159

Something else I find fascinating about the family tree is that Rahab was brought into the genealogy of Jesus.

"Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab" (Matthew 1:5).

Rahab was also a Canaanite.

mkgal1 · Jun 26, 2019

nolidad said:
The point is that since solomons temple- woman had their court, the Jewish men had their court and the gentiles went outside of the courts.

You mean since Herod's temple? You'd posted this:

nolidad said:
But the wall separating the court of teh women from the court of the gentiles wasn't built until Herods day!

but in Solomons temple and the rebuilt temple under zerubabbel the outer court had no wall

.....which, I believe, is true. The wall of separation came later.

mkgal1 · Jun 26, 2019

nolidad said:
You need to read scripture more! Gods shechinah glory filled the temple many times! Jesus did not condemn the temple system- He fulfilled it thus rendering it null and void!

The glory is written to have left the first temple in Ezekiel 10. Show me where His shekinah glory returned. The fulfillment of His glory returning is acknowledged when Peter quoted Joel's prophecy on the Day of Pentecost.

from Joel 2:27: You will know that I am present in Israel and that I am Yahweh your God, and there is no other.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ~ Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

Jesus, most definitely, condemned the temple system (it's the whole reason it was destroyed). Yes....Jesus fulfilled what that the system pointed to....but that doesn't mean the religious leaders were without fault.

Mark 11:15-17; John 2:14-17; Matthew 21:12-13 ~
Jesus Cleanses the Temple
aAnd they came to Jerusalem. And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who sold and those who bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of b the money-changers and the seats of those who sold c pigeons. 16 And he would not allow anyone to carry anything through the temple. 17 And he was teaching them and saying to them, “Is it not written, d‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations’?But e you have made it a den of robbers.”

In speaking of a “house of prayer” and a “den of thieves” (the NIV has “den of robbers”), Jesus cited two passages from the Old Testament. In Isaiah 56:7 God says, “These [faithful foreigners] I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.” Twice in this verse, God’s temple is called “a house of prayer.” God’s design was for His house in Jerusalem to be a gathering place for worshipers from all nations, a place where prayers would rise like incense from the hearts of the faithful to the presence of the living God.

The phrase den of thieves comes from Jeremiah 7:11, where God says, “Has this house, which bears my Name, become a den of robbers to you? But I have been watching! declares the LORD.” The prophet Jeremiah was rebuking the temple leaders for their abuses.

Matthew 23:38 ~ Behold, your house is left to you desolate!

Jeremiah 22:5 ~ But if you do not obey these words, then I swear by Myself, declares the LORD, that this house will become a pile of rubble.'"

mkgal1 · Jun 26, 2019

nolidad said:
Given that the instructions were for Jews in temple worship and you cannot find an instruction allowing gentiles into the inner court or even the court of women- I can't prove a negative.

But, if your statement were true, and God had instructed the wall to have been built (or that there was some necessary barrier to divide up the Gentiles from Israelites - which, BTW, is impossible - being that some individuals were both from foreigners and native parents) then that wouldn't be proving a negative.

I'm confident that you will never find that instruction as it goes against God's desire for His house to be a house of prayer for ALL nations and that there be no preference given to any of His followers.

Ronald · Jun 26, 2019

claninja said:
This prophecy is rooted in the old covenant promises of restoration to land after the blessings and curses had been poured out.

Deuteronomy 30:1-5 When all these things come upon you—the blessings and curses I have set before you—and you call them to mind in all the nations to which the LORD your God has banished you, and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey His voice with all your heart and all your soul according to everything I am giving you today, then He will restore you from captivity and have compassion on you and gather you from all the nations to which the LORD your God has scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the ends of the earth, He will gather you and return you from there.

Daniel confirms the curses of the law were poured out:

Daniel 9:11 All Israel has transgressed Your law and turned away, refusing to obey Your voice; so the oath and the curse written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, has been poured out on us because we have sinned against You.

Jeremiah confirms that the promise of restoration, found in the law of moses, would be fulfilled after the Babylonian exile.

Jeremiah 29:10-14 For this is what the LORD says: “When Babylon’s seventy years are complete, I will attend to you and confirm My promise to restore you to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD, and I will restore you from captivity and gather you from all the nations and places to which I have banished you, declares the LORD. I will restore you to the place from which I sent you into exile.

Ezekiel prophesied DURING the Babylonian exile, that God would gather the Israelites back to the land.

Ezekiel 37:21 you are to tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘I will take the Israelites out of the nations to which they have gone, and I will gather them from all around and bring them into their own land.

Ezra confirms that the Israelites returned in waves back to the land after the Babylonian exile

Ezra 1:5 So the family heads of Judah and Benjamin, along with the priests and Levites—everyone whose spirit God had stirred—prepared to go up and rebuild the house of the LORD in Jerusalem.

Ezra 8:1 These are the family heads and genealogical records of those who returned with me from Babylon during the reign of King Artaxerxes

Chronicles confirms that some from the northern tribes resettled in the land after the Babylonian exile.

1 chronicles 9:1-3 So all Israel was recorded in the genealogies written in the Book of the Kings of Israel. But Judah was exiled to Babylon because of their unfaithfulness. Now the first to resettle their own property in their cities were Israelites, priests, Levites, and temple servants. These were some of the descendants of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh who lived in Jerusalem:

Thus, under the OLD COVENANT, Israel did return to the land as promised.

However.....

The old covenant is now obsolete, and the new covenant has superseded the old covenant.

Hebrews 10:9 Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second

Hebrews 8:13 By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Therefore, as the old covenant is now obsolete, its promises of restoration are now obsolete.

Ezek. 37:1-14 prophecies dry bones coming to life ... out of the graves ... God putting flesh on them and breathing life into them. This is a vision of the resurrection. Verses 15-28 shows Israel's gathering back to their home for the specific purpose of being enlightened to Christ as Romans 11 describes. This happens during the Great Tribulation. Our resurrection happens then.

jgr · Jun 26, 2019

nolidad said:
It is in Scripture- that is why it is called the court of women!

The Court of the Women in the Temple (Bible History Online)

From wiki:

The court of the women (Hebrew: עזרת הנשים Ezrat HaNashim or עזרת נשים Ezrat Nashim) was the outer forecourt of the Temples in Jerusalem into which women were permitted to enter.[1] The court was also known as the "middle court," as it stood between the Court of the Gentiles and the court of Israel, i.e. the court of the men.[2]

https://www.[bless and do not curse.../interior-diagram-of-temple-in-jerusalem.html

show from Scripture that women could enter the inner court or the court of teh men except for bringing a sacrifice!

First the talmud was presented as scripture.

Now wiki is presented as scripture.

What's next? The book of mormon?

P.S.

You have yet to present any actual Scripture validating your claims, which had nothing to do originally with women, but rather with Gentile inferiority.

Still waiting.

BABerean2 · Jun 26, 2019

Ronald said:
Verses 15-28 shows Israel's gathering back to their home for the specific purpose of being enlightened to Christ as Romans 11 describes. This happens during the Great Tribulation.

The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of both Israelite and Gentile branches, grafted together into the same tree.

Are you attempting to change the word "so", which is and adverb of manner, to the word "then", which is an adverb of timing in the verse below?

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The manner of salvation is also found in Romans 11.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Paul provides no path to salvation outside of the Church in the passage.
.

nolidad · Jun 27, 2019

mkgal1 said:
Jesus, most definitely, condemned the temple system (it's the whole reason it was destroyed). Yes....Jesus fulfilled what that the system pointed to....but that doesn't mean the religious leaders were without fault.

No Jesus condemned the corruption of the system.

He created the temple system in the wilderness! The reason teh temple was destroyed is because Israel committed the unpardonable sin!

But sahoe me one where Jesus called the system evil.

He never spoke against the sacrificial system.
He never spoke against the court of the women
He never spoke against the court of the Gentiles.
He never spoke against teh priesthood.

He did speak against the corruption of the system- but not the system. He came to fulfill the system which was part and parcel of the Mosaic LaW!

Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

Did event of Israel 1948 fulfill any Bible prophecy?

No

Yes

I don't know

Other

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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